Originally posted by Creshosk
Silly boy.
No. For the last time, I only said it's stupid to compare two different styles. I haven't said one bit about this one being the best or so.
I said : you can not compare two different fighting styles.
(I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.)
Originally posted by who?-kidYou don't even know what the hell you're arguing anymore do you? 😆
Did I say that Vermeer is a better painter than Picasso ? Or vice versa ?No. For the last time, I only said it's stupid to compare two different styles. I haven't said one bit about this one being the best or so.
I said : you can not compare two different fighting styles.
(I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.)
This is your argument (last time I said it I was being sarcastic(I was stateing that like I was you) :
Originally posted by Creshosk
Because different styles are simply a matter of opinion.
Get it? That's what you're arguing. Different styles are just a matter of opinion.
In the painting thing, its true. Just a matter of opinion as to which is better. . . however it's not true as far as fighting goes. 😉
So what are you trying to say is true about fighting? There is no definative ultimate fighting style is the main point here.
And could someone please post a couple scans of where it says Batman mastered 127 forms of martial arts? All I have so far is heresay, and I'd like to see it, because I still think it's a little wild.
Orginally posted by StrawNilla
The only reason people stronger than Spidey don't have an edge over Batman is simply because of prep time i.e. the planning Batman can enlist as help in toppling such an enemy and not anything he can do with his hands. And as I've said, it would really be pointless to compare two such different fighting styles, one is composed of superhuman abilties that are simply not in Batman's ploy and the other comes from intense training that Spidey lacks. And to name one style as superior would only cause a ruckus, because many believe that experience with training topples something so unorthodox while history has shown that through Spidey enlisting near all his superhuman abilties to a certain degree as part of his fighting style he has topped enemies many times more powerful than he, and realistically at that.
Which one of the two has a record of changing his fighting style in order to have the upper hand on his opponents? A person who does this is by far more experience than a person who has just a linear style. You don't see reasons to compare because Dare Devil a trained martial artist just like batman was able to put spiderman down with a series of punches. The truth of the matter is batman is the better fighter.
And Spidey's superhuman strength to a 15 ton lifting force degree is not something you can leave at home neither figuratively and physically, strength like that or of any kind isn't something you can throw off to the side. A suit, however, is. And Batman is not one to waste his resources in a battle he isn't even allowed to prepare himself for, in fact, since this is the case, he'd most likely assume that a battle he doesn't have prep for would not have him being pitted up against someone as powerful as Supes.
You see just as spiderman cannot leave his 15 ton strength behind. Neither can batman leave his suit. His suit is what makes him batman. Did you think that batman knew he was going to fight a superman from the future, or a superman under the control of red kryptonite is going to attack him? No he did not. Batman wearing his suit is not prep, is what he has always done. It is his every day attire.
And again, Batman is just not on a level high enough physically to adapt to Spidey's superhuman abilties, Spidey is just on a level physically that Bats cannot augment himself up to by will alone. Nor can he do if he applied himself. He cannot overcome Spidey physically, and physically, his attacks will be nigh-ineffective against someone with the degree of superhuman durabilty that Spidey has. Batman has never encountered a collaboration of superhuman abilties that Spidey has in his ploy, and he cannot anticipate it before hand. In short: in a non-prep fight, Bats is overwhelmed if the two fight in hth combat.
What batman lacks in strength, he makes it up with the gadgets that he carries....taken from StrawNilla.....Spidey is just on a level physically that Bats cannot augment himself up to by will alone. He cannot overcome Spidey physically, and physically, his attacks will be nigh-ineffective against someone with the degree of superhuman durabilty that Spidey has.....I agree, that is why he has the bat suit, that is why he has all the gadgets. Which more than level the playing field more often than not. However, Physically....pressure points would be more than effective. And using the momentum of your opponent will help greatly.
So the car will explode if Spidey tries and lifts it? Even if this is so, all he has to do is flip it instead, a notion that will maybe take half the time of trying to throw it. And even if Spidey goes against the notion of trying to flip it, the spider sense should warn him of the car if it's about to explode before he attempts anything brash. And who says Batman will clear the explosion radius if Spidey tosses it and he ejects? Especially if, as you've said, it's exploding while Batman is inside (seriously, it's as if you said Bats will have the Batmobile explode once Spidey can get close enough to throw it, before Batman has the chance to eject.)
You said there would be no surprises should spiderman try to flip or throw batman's mobile, all I did was open your eyes. The mobile can be exploded via remote with batman in a safe location. Or is this beyond batman's tech. taken from StrawNilla....Even if this is so, all he has to do is flip it instead, a notion that will maybe take half the time of trying to throw it. It makes no difference whether spiderman flips the car, or throw the car away. The explosion from the car is still going to knock him out. Even when warned by his spidersence. He is still not going to be fast enough to completely escape the explosion.
Originally posted by StrawNilla
And who says Batman will clear the explosion radius if Spidey tosses it and he ejects? Especially if, as you've said, it's exploding while Batman is inside
So batman is going to watch spiderman dodge all his projectiles, and just sit inside the batmobile and watch spiderman flip his car. With him inside? Is this what you are insinuating? If not clearify.
Let me ask you a question.
Who is going to clear the most ground....the guy on an ejection sit, who is also the one initiating the explosion or the guy standing next to the car after the distraction of the ejection sit....realises that the car is going to blow? Who is going to clear the blast radius first? The guy on the ejection sit or the guy that has to run?
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Batman is not on the level of Wonder Woman, Superman, Martian, etc etc..I think spending all his time with the powerhouses has given him some experience in dealing with physically adept superheroes like Spider-Man so I'll doubt he'll be overwhelmed.
"Batman has never encountered a collaboration of superhuman abilties that Spidey has in his ploy"
and I doubt Peter Parker has ever encountered the collaboration of a hotshot that manages to stump 99% of his opponents with ingenious traps or tactical acuteness or semantics. Batman has quite a reputation doesn't he? Otherwise the writers wouldn't have had him beat Scorpion in the crossovers, take out Bullseye with one punch, and face Venom for a short period who didn't scar Bats one bit. I'm going ahead of myself but acknoweledge that Batman has a huge probability of winning this fight with his sheer complexity.
MrHeavySilence explained it more than I can even hope to accomplish.
StrawNilla...If you have problems understanding my post just read what MrHeavySilence had to say about the matter.
Originally posted by who?-kid
No he isn't. Their fighting styles are very different, you can not compare them.Was Bruce Lee a better fighter than Cassius Clay ? Is Picasso a better painter than Vermeer ? You can argue the rest of your life about these questions, but it's no use : different styles.
You simply can not compare different styles.
And yet Dare Devil is able to lock horns with spiderman. Makes you wonder...doesn't it.🙂
Originally posted by 8bitChris
So what are you trying to say is true about fighting? There is no definative ultimate fighting style is the main point here.And could someone please post a couple scans of where it says Batman mastered 127 forms of martial arts? All I have so far is heresay, and I'd like to see it, because I still think it's a little wild.
Would accept all forms of combat instead of 127 forms of martial arts? Becacuse I can find this particular one and give you a site to check it out.
http://www.batman-of-gotham.supanet.com/index10.html
Try this one instead to go to the site.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Which one of the two has a record of changing his fighting style in order to have the upper hand on his opponents? A person who does this is by far more experience than a person who has just a linear style. You don't see reasons to compare because Dare Devil a trained martial artist just like batman was able to put spiderman down with a series of punches. The truth of the matter is batman is the better fighter.You see just as spiderman cannot leave his 15 ton strength behind. Neither can batman leave his suit. His suit is what makes him batman. Did you think that batman knew he was going to fight a superman from the future, or a superman under the control of red kryptonite is going to attack him? No he did not. Batman wearing his suit is not prep, is what he has always done. It is his every day attire.
What batman lacks in strength, he makes it up with the gadgets that he carries....taken from StrawNilla.....Spidey is just on a level physically that Bats cannot augment himself up to by will alone. He cannot overcome Spidey physically, and physically, his attacks will be nigh-ineffective against someone with the degree of superhuman durabilty that Spidey has.....I agree, that is why he has the bat suit, that is why he has all the gadgets. Which more than level the playing field more often than not. However, Physically....pressure points would be more than effective. And using the momentum of your opponent will help greatly.
You said there would be no surprises should spiderman try to flip or throw batman's mobile, all I did was open your eyes. The mobile can be exploded via remote with batman in a safe location. Or is this beyond batman's tech. taken from StrawNilla....Even if this is so, all he has to do is flip it instead, a notion that will maybe take half the time of trying to throw it. It makes no difference whether spiderman flips the car, or throw the car away. The explosion from the car is still going to knock him out. Even when warned by his spidersence. He is still not going to be fast enough to completely escape the explosion.
So batman is going to watch spiderman dodge all his projectiles, and just sit inside the batmobile and watch spiderman flip his car. With him inside? Is this what you are insinuating? If not clearify.
Let me ask you a question.
Who is going to clear the most ground....the guy on an ejection sit, who is also the one initiating the explosion or the guy standing next to the car after the distraction of the ejection sit....realises that the car is going to blow? Who is going to clear the blast radius first? The guy on the ejection sit or the guy that has to run?
If the battle where to become one of brute physicality, seeing both Spidey and Bats take it to each other utilizing ALL of their abilties, Bats will be tossed, kicked, hit, and straddeled by his cape before he could call the nearest kryptonite manufacturer. Spidey has abilties that, when compared to Batman's own, greatly exceed them and others that Batman certainly won't expect in a battle he can't prepare for. As for Batman's gadgets, that's where Spidey's speed, agility, and reflexes coupled with pre-cog come into play. As long as Spidey fights smart (as he generally does), he should be more than fine evading Bats's projctiles.
And as far as what would happen when Spidey flips the Batmobile, the matter is still rather simple. Spidey could flip it with ease before any projectiles are deployed. How much time do you think it would take for Bats to drive up to Spidey, and for Spidey to flip the car upon meeting? And even if the explosion still follows through, there's a good chance that if Spidey can just partly evade the explosion it wouldn't knock him out, as shown in one of your fellow Bat supporters' scans, Spidey took a small explosion head on and was a good bit uneffected (thanks to superhuman durability). Batman, on the other hand, doesn't have that option. Think about it, you said Bats would just press a button on one of his remotes and the Batmobile would explode....now, what of his method of escape? Btw, wouldn't Bats be too busy trying to escape the Batmobile while it's in mid-flip rather than trying to make it explode.
And I'm not insinuating that Batman will sit back and watch Spidey do anything, what Spidey is physically capable of doing (and that's alot to superhuman extents, esp. in this fight) is what he will more than likely end up doing, esp. in a fight.
And to answer your last question, as stated before, Spidey can flip the Batmobile in a very short amount of time, we're talking about Spidey performing a notion that takes maybe a second or so, and that time is set to how long it would take for the Batmobile to flip, rather than how long it would take Spidey to lift it up. And if (since in this case) the Batmobile is in mid-flip, Bats should be alot more worried about just ejecting from the Batmobile rather than making it explode. And as for who's clearing the most ground to escape the blast, Spidey (in Maximum Spider mode) has displayed speeds of a low-level speedster, given the time he has in your scenario, he'll clear alot more ground on his feet away from the blast than you are lead to believe.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Batman is not on the level of Wonder Woman, Superman, Martian, etc etc..I think spending all his time with the powerhouses has given him some experience in dealing with physically adept superheroes like Spider-Man so I'll doubt he'll be overwhelmed.
"Batman has never encountered a collaboration of superhuman abilties that Spidey has in his ploy"
and I doubt Peter Parker has ever encountered the collaboration of a hotshot that manages to stump 99% of his opponents with ingenious traps or tactical acuteness or semantics. Batman has quite a reputation doesn't he? Otherwise the writers wouldn't have had him beat Scorpion in the crossovers, take out Bullseye with one punch, and face Venom for a short period who didn't scar Bats one bit. I'm going ahead of myself but acknoweledge that Batman has a huge probability of winning this fight with his sheer complexity.
Come now, I thought that no one was actually going to use crossover examples, if so, then the Spidey supporters would be forced to bring up the time that Spidey tossed Batman a great deal with one arm. Crossovers are just one domain in which Batman defies his own humanity and does stuff completely outside of his physical capacity. You see Bats going around KO'ing Scorpion with three hits despite his strength which has been confirmed to extend to that of a peak human's capacity. Logically, Batman should not be able to do many of the things he does in crossovers and as part of the Justice League, but if this logic were used, there would be no place for him but Gotham. Batman is human, a human with some exceptional resources, but a human none the less. If the battle gets physical, I don't think there is a question as to who would win depsite those who dispute it. Spidey has all the advantages. If the battle came down to Batman's resources, it only takes Spidey's versatility brought about by his superhuman abilities (and he has many) to level the playing field, it only takes Spidey fighting smart, careful, yet to the point where he knows he has the physical advantage. Soon, if Spidey sees fit, his speed advantage could allow a KO speedblitz, and that would be that. It all comes down to careful tactics, and picking the right spots. And for Spidey, picking the right spots (seeing as Batman is the most vulnerable here) should be easy.
On a serious note, I see Straw presenting a great argument. Batman beating people who outclass him in his comics doesn't say much about what will happen if he fights Spidey. He might not get felled by one punch, but he can only avoid Spiderman for so long, and take so many punches. It's only logical to believe that Batman's durability is limited to the maximum human level.
*Edited to Add Spoiler Tag*
(MARVEL KNIGHTS SPIDERMAN ISSUE 15 SPOILER TAG. DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW. SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER.)
So I was reading the newest issue of Marvel Knights Spiderman and it looks like Spidey was just upgraded to, "smarter than" Hank Pym. Peter showed him the tracking devices he created as a "teenager" that interacted with his Spidersense and that left Mr. Pym pretty flabbergasted. Hank pretty much told Spidey that it was his responsibility to use all of his gifts, not to just swing around a punch people. Maybe we'll get some more gadgets now lol 😛.
They also introduced a new sort of "sidekick" whose backstory must be a joke because it is a complete ripoff from Superman's lol. Midwest family find an alien pod with a baby in it. Baby grows up to be Superstrong and can fly; don't forget to mention that he also wears a cape 😛. Turns out this "Ean" guy wants Peter to tutor him and teach him how to be a super hero because he's still a green horn. I almost forgot to mention that this is a well built guy who's secret identity is a journalist working for the Daily Bugle newspaper.
It was a pretty entertaining issue.
In any case, I say Spiderman's sidekick kicks Robin's ass.
Originally posted by 8bitChris
*Edited to Add Spoiler Tag*
(MARVEL KNIGHTS SPIDERMAN ISSUE 15 SPOILER TAG. DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW. SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER.)So I was reading the newest issue of Marvel Knights Spiderman and it looks like Spidey was just upgraded to, "smarter than" Hank Pym. Peter showed him the tracking devices he created as a "teenager" that interacted with his Spidersense and that left Mr. Pym pretty flabbergasted. Hank pretty much told Spidey that it was his responsibility to use all of his gifts, not to just swing around a punch people. Maybe we'll get some more gadgets now lol 😛.
They also introduced a new sort of "sidekick" whose backstory must be a joke because it is a complete ripoff from Superman's lol. Midwest family find an alien pod with a baby in it. Baby grows up to be Superstrong and can fly; don't forget to mention that he also wears a cape 😛. Turns out this "Ean" guy wants Peter to tutor him and teach him how to be a super hero because he's still a green horn. I almost forgot to mention that this is a well built guy who's secret identity is a journalist working for the Daily Bugle newspaper.
It was a pretty entertaining issue.
In any case, I say Spiderman's sidekick kicks Robin's ass.
Are you serious?
