Well the same can be said for spiderman getting jumped by normal thugs. A mean who is the one with the spidersense and super-strength. In the case of thugs getting the drop on superheros spiderman has got is worse because he is the one that can sense danger with the danger sense. I guess the spidersense isn't something as you make it seem when he gets himself in trouble with the common thug at times.
When was the last time Spiderman got surprised by normal thugs? And when was the last time Spiderman didn't hand those thugs their ass?
Iron Man's fighting skills are less than adequate, the only reason he is able to stand toe to toe with major power is because of the immense power in that suit. So it is no surprise to me if spiderman ripped his suit up.
Exagerrating is nice and all but at least give Iron Man credit. After being in thousands of battles you are bound to learn a little about fighting. He might not use martial arts; but Iron Man is a pretty good fighter.
You put too much emphasisi on skill, and not experience. Skill is great but spidey has adequate experience, and can take on the best of the best with his unique style. Batman could never beat iron man, or thanos or some others like hulk, who don't use skill " but do what they do just fine". Many people get a blakc belt quickly, only to get handed by those who have fought, and can controltheir emotions.
...All of which Batman has, so I fail to see how Spider-Man has any advantage whatsoever (other than powers) when it comes to fighting. Batman has just as much, if not more, experience, far more training and skill, and has more control (Peter panics and allows himself to be angered far easier than Bruce). Batman is the better fighter - there is no way around this.
Solving them, and handling them alone are two different things, he has guys like the MM helping him, that plays a crucial role.
Spider-Man also requires help when it comes to global-level threats. Let's drop the 'they have help' line of thinking when neither requires much help against their usual fights (which aren't as far apart as many think, Batman fights just as many super-powered foes as Spidey, whilst Spidey has fought incredibly crafty/smart individuals). Batman has the JLA when it comes to global fights, yes, but Spider-Man has the Avengers and every other hero when it comes to the same thing. To be honest, Spidey usually avoids global-level activity, whereas Batman thrives there.
Yes and his spider sense is not as sufficient against milder threats, and spiderman holds back on those guys anyway, if he used his superstrong webbing to hurt them, or hit them good, they would die, its that simple, the sense is cream on the cake, whil the suit, is the cake.
I would say it's Batman's skill and know-how that is 'the cake'. Despite what many think, Batman's armor shouldn't allow him to take more than a few gunshots, and by the same line of reasoning, maybe one or two punches from Spider-Man. His armor shouldn't protect against a knife stab or similarly puncture wound causing weapons. Batman isn't all Bat-suit and gadgets as your statement seems to suggest.
And Spidey's spider-sense has the same level of effectiveness no matter the threat level.
If it was just one fight and you had to place a bet you'd place it on Spiderman though? Right Wanderer?
I used to give this to Spidey hands down when I first came to the board and this thread was under 10 pages or so, I believe. But nowadays, I don't have a clear opinion. I'm not arguing that Batman will win, really, so much as giving him the support he deserves; it's easy enough to argue for Spider-Man.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
...All of which Batman has, so I fail to see how Spider-Man has any advantage whatsoever (other than powers) when it comes to fighting. Batman has just as much, if not more, experience, far more training and skill, and has more control (Peter panics and allows himself to be angered far easier than Bruce). Batman is the better fighter - there is no way around this.
Yes he does, but experience and superior physioligy, are what I'm saying.
Basically spiderman could "kill" more humans with less effort than batman, using hand to hand fighting, than batman could, is my point, like the hand 2 hand versus, a human and a polar bear, the human is the more" skilled" and "dextrous" fighter, but the bear is more experienced, and would most likely win.
Yes batman and spiderman keep their calm when fighting, they are very similar, spiderman's panic comes from duress from many circumstances or a loved one, batman doesn't have as much loved ones to worry about.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
...Spider-Man also requires help when it comes to global-level threats. Let's drop the 'they have help' line of thinking when neither requires much help against their usual fights (which aren't as far apart as many think, Batman fights just as many super-powered foes as Spidey, whilst Spidey has fought incredibly crafty/smart individuals). Batman has the JLA when it comes to global fights, yes, but Spider-Man has the Avengers and every other hero when it comes to the same thing. To be honest, Spidey usually avoids global-level activity, whereas Batman thrives there.
True again, in the JlA he does, because the threats are global, but the alone batman is more of a town veilian, and they have fought many villains, I'm saying its easier to strategize with more superheroes, constantly at your back, but batman is great alone as well.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
...I would say it's Batman's skill and know-how that is 'the cake'. Despite what many think, Batman's armor shouldn't allow him to take more than a few gunshots, and by the same line of reasoning, maybe one or two punches from Spider-Man. His armor shouldn't protect against a knife stab or similarly puncture wound causing weapons. Batman isn't all Bat-suit and gadgets as your statement seems to suggest.
Correct, but his armor would be of more significane in this fight. Spidermans sense is like a reflex that is hard to miss or ignore. However, since it is usually ignored in smaller threats, it has developed a reputation for being inconsisitant, and that suit isn't as durable as some made it, thanks for clearing that up.
Batman's greatest weapon in perhaps almost any superheroes is his mind, but it is hard to explain that in a debate, as most use gadgets and said feats as concrete for their arguments(not you)
Originally posted by Wanderer259
...And Spidey's spider-sense has the same level of effectiveness no matter the threat level.
Read previous post.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Yes and his spider sense is not as sufficient against milder threats, and spiderman holds back on those guys anyway, if he used his superstrong webbing to hurt them, or hit them good, they would die, its that simple, the sense is cream on the cake, whil the suit, is the cake.
The spidersense is designed to pick up any sense of danger no matter how mild. Either that or you are trying to rewrite the spider sense to fit your objective. Even if spiderman holds back he still have enough power to knock back those common thugs. Like I said before spiderman has it worse when to comes to being jumped by thugs because he is the one with the spidersense.
Yes, he is great, but they show him active to keep him that way, remember that batman that was once human?
Spiderman is also human but you don't see me calling that in to question. And yes batman is still human, he is just a little paranoid about people with superpowers. that's all.
You put too much emphasisi on skill, and not experience. Skill is great but spidey has adequate experience, and can take on the best of the best with his unique style. Batman could never beat iron man, or thanos or some others like hulk, who don't use skill " but do what they do just fine". Many people get a blakc belt quickly, only to get handed by those who have fought, and can controltheir emotions.
In terms of skill and experience spiderman has got it in spades when compared to any Ironman. Batman could never beat Ironman or Thanos sure but the fact of strength did not stop batman from taking it to darksied. The equivalent of thanos, you see batman is not afraid of anybody.
Many people get a blakc belt quickly, only to get handed by those who have fought, and can controltheir emotions.
And you know what this is exactly why your Ironman 2020 armor got ripped by spiderman. Let's face it he my have power, but he lacks in experience and skill when compared to spiderman.
Solving them, and handling them alone are two different things, he has guys like the MM helping him, that plays a crucial role.
Batman handling the mysteries alone was not my point, Solving the mystery was my main goal. I guess you got that if you thought my main point was batman handling the mysteries.
Spiderman and Batman are very similay, but spiderman has more reliable wins in this case, while batman is a "what if " winner.
You are exactly right batman is a "what if" winner he makes great leaps in logic as to what is going to do to bring his opponent down. Fortunately for his opponents he is hardly ever wrong. I guess Batman being known as one of the greatest analytical minds holds truth with your "what if" theory. Because you either get the first time wright or it is curtain for you.
Originally posted by 8bitChris
Exagerrating is nice and all but at least give Iron Man credit. After being in thousands of battles you are bound to learn a little about fighting. He might not use martial arts; but Iron Man is a pretty good fighter.
I might have exaggerated a little bit, but what I said holds water. If not how do you explain spiderman ripping off ironman's 2020's armor. I would like to hear it.
Basically spiderman could "kill" more humans with less effort than batman, using hand to hand fighting, than batman could, is my point, like the hand 2 hand versus, a human and a polar bear, the human is the more" skilled" and "dextrous" fighter, but the bear is more experienced, and would most likely win.
Not really. A single solid punch to the throat or to the temple is sufficient to kill a human being; neither weapons nor superhuman strength is necessary to be a killing machine. Ask Lady Shiva.
To be nit-picky, your example is bad. A polar bear also has tremendous weight to throw in with its physical power, not to mention a height advantage as well. In fact, Batman is both heavier and taller than Spider-Man.
True again, in the JlA he does, because the threats are global, but the alone batman is more of a town veilian, and they have fought many villains, I'm saying its easier to strategize with more superheroes, constantly at your back, but batman is great alone as well.
Of course it is. It's easier no matter who you are. The more resources you have, the better you can strategize. Spider-Man is also a 'town' hero as he hardly ever leaves NYC. I don't see your point.
Correct, but his armor would be of more significane in this fight. Spidermans sense is like a reflex that is hard to miss or ignore. However, since it is usually ignored in smaller threats, it has developed a reputation for being inconsisitant, and that suit isn't as durable as some made it, thanks for clearing that up.Batman's greatest weapon in perhaps almost any superheroes is his mind, but it is hard to explain that in a debate, as most use gadgets and said feats as concrete for their arguments(not you)
Actually, sometimes Peter gets hit because he's too busy going, "Huh?" when his spider-sense hits him. And that's how his suit should work based on what I've heard it's made from. What it's done in the comics, I don't know for certain. Gadgets are also a viable reason. Are Spider-Man's web-shooters not a gadget? Perhaps they once were, but the new, organic ones aren't as versatile as the old mechanical ones and since we've been throwing the mechanical web-shooters' specs around (such as the tensile strength and whatnot), I'm assuming those are the ones Spidey's using right now.
SPiderman has the strength to rip that armor, but bats doesn't
No, but Bats may have, and probably does, an EMP device that would make it useless.
[Originally posted by CorderaMitchell[/I]
SPiderman has the strength to rip that armor, but bats doesn't
Exactly, spiderman had the strength but compared to ironman's strength how strong is spiderman? The same way as you look at spiderman being 15 tons stronger than batman. Ironman is simply stronger than spiderman.
Spiderman opened up ironman's armor partly because he had the strength but mainly because of his experience and skill that he possesses over ironman 2020.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
Not really. A single solid punch to the throat or to the temple is sufficient to kill a human being; neither weapons nor superhuman strength is necessary to be a killing machine. Ask Lady Shiva.
Yes those are hemmorage spots, and the neck,kidneys, under the nose and ears are as well, I hear you on this, but my point is spierman has greater strength, and velocity, to require such tactics, which suffices for his lack of "formal training" which some have made to make up completly for physiolligy, and spiderman is one fast moving target, unlike a normal human, and is MUCH HARDER TO HIT, but batman would be easier for spiderman to exhibit his strength and speed on than for batman to exhibit his "technicality" on him or many speed based heroes.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
To be nit-picky, your example is bad. A polar bear also has tremendous weight to throw in with its physical power, not to mention a height advantage as well. In fact, Batman is both heavier and taller than Spider-Man.
In some aspects yes, since I don't consider weaponry or anything else but, in aspects of pure fighting skill vs. superiority example. Spiderman is more like an "alien", you're probably familiar with them, as they move fast, wall crawled, and put humans at ease fast "marines", this is better since the marine would have the weapons to balance it out, but is doomed if the alien comes near, also factor pre-cog, super strength, and webbign, and you'll see where I'm getting at here with my rambling.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
Of course it is. It's easier no matter who you are. The more resources you have, the better you can strategize. Spider-Man is also a 'town' hero as he hardly ever leaves NYC. I don't see your point.
Yes I've already said that they are very similar, but some of bats foes are weaker on many circumstances, some are very deadly, usually spidey's are more on a physical scale, while bats are more mental, pick and choose.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
Actually, sometimes Peter gets hit because he's too busy going, "Huh?" when his spider-sense hits him. And that's how his suit should work based on what I've heard it's made from. What it's done in the comics, I don't know for certain. Gadgets are also a viable reason. Are Spider-Man's web-shooters not a gadget? Perhaps they once were, but the new, organic ones aren't as versatile as the old mechanical ones and since we've been throwing the mechanical web-shooters' specs around (such as the tensile strength and whatnot), I'm assuming those are the ones Spidey's using right now.
Yes, i've already explained gadgetry, and it is fact that spiderman is easily outclassed, but the webbing is one versatile piece of work against any hero, as it can be fired, or it can be used for transportation.
Like you've said his sense is on many levels, from a person looking at him wrong, to a familiar foe in his prescence in disguise, to a bullet lodged at him.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
No, but Bats may have, and probably does, an EMP device that would make it useless.
Yes, but Iron man is also mentally great, and uses weaponry on a greater scale, and could escape the range of batman.
idk... Batman rocks so Id pick him... his technology, intelligence, and will to beat his opponent. Hes beaten alot of powerful opponents (s.a bane, joker, superman, hulk, cap, etc.)
Somehow I cant see Batman losing to Spiderman. Although I think Spiderman and Wolverine seems to fit Batmans taste to face him at his full potential.
Originally posted by LeAtHerRFaceBane's not all that powerful. Joker's really not all that powerful. Supes has an easily exploitable weakness, always holds back, and Bats often has help. Bats Vs. Hulk was another badly written crossover(some may try to pretend bad writing doesn't exist, but they know it does). And to my knowledge Bats hasn't beaten Cap in a fight that wasn't decided on by fan(boy) votes. He pretty much yielded to Cap in JLA/Avengers. He talked his way out of an a$$ kicking.
idk... Batman rocks so Id pick him... his technology, intelligence, and will to beat his opponent. Hes beaten alot of powerful opponents (s.a bane, joker, superman, hulk, cap, etc.)