Originally posted by jinzin
lol...i think it's hilarious how so many people think I'm a staunch batman supporter here when I've already admitted I view this as a 50/50 in my mind...
Many of my arguments are 50/50 or go in the opposite of the person winning, and I get antagonized even more, maybe its the way you argue batman.
Originally posted by Batman Wins
Lol. Ok so lets say everytime Batman gets hit, its Bad writing
No, its the opposite actually, considering Batman gets hit less than flash. He doesnt get hit by guys he SHOULD to keep him alive, and flash gets hit by guys he SHOULDN'T to make it interesting, get the drift.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
I hate that picture of Batman. The way his armor and the bullets are behaving is just... stupid. Although the caption does mention that the bullets are shattering the plates.If he did that without his armor, it's not only crap writing, it's absolute BS. Even with the armor, that's crap writing.
I can accept a shot from a handgun being averted and bruising Bruce underneath, but anything more than that is just stupid. Batman may have armor, but it's not on par with the Iron Man system.
THANK YOU!! People have this notion that his armor can take hits from superman, even in the face!! Even if that were so strong, the concusssive force would be fatal. No different than wolverine's skull, the concussive force would be too much.
Originally posted by jinzin
I really liked the way you put this I just don't find it all that cut and dry...for instance, where spiderman has more exadurated and impressive LOOKING agility...batman is comparitively agile for a human being...because agility is more of a defensive asset it really won't help either attain a victory, instead it helps avoid being defeated...while batman's agility isn't on par with spidey's it is comparitive and it is capible of dealing with avoiding and out maneuvering spiderman's offensive capibilities...
No i totally disagree, agility is offensive, ask the ailens. Regardless anything that helps you avoid a defeat is a crucial part of victory, spiderman dodges all the time. It is what he does best.
Originally posted by jinzin
speed...spiderman has about a 12% faster moving body than batman and is more resistant to fatigue...but batman can more easily anticipate his movements as he has no formal training to have learned not to telegraph attacks....for a master tactician like batman this is a HUGE disadvantage even when you ARE faster (i.e. deathstroke/flash).
Spiderman is MUCH faster than batman, especially in high gear. Since this match is bloodlust, i would expect his speed to be at least 20x faster. Batman is not more resistance to fatigue, spiderman has a superhuman metabolism, that means even the worlds best(Batman) would get exausted first, spiderman could compete in every olympic event, and do just fine.
Yet also flash gets hits more than batman, not fair eh?
If I were in a fight, with less skill,but I could react 15x faster than a normal person, and be stronger, and move MUCH faster, with an early detection system I would win, his abilities make batman a less effective figthter, why is this still being questioned?
Originally posted by jinzinI'd definitely say batman has better range but that's simply due to his weapons....
But spiderman has better travel, adn dodging.
Originally posted by jinzin
intelligence of any sort goes to batman....wit however would be spidey's territory....
Spiderman is a genius, he used his equipment from the supplies of a high school. He definitely gets the science portion.
Originally posted by jinzin
to clarify, I really don't disagree with your points...just making an observation that there are other factors that come into play when determining how stats are used in an actual confrontation..
Yep and spiderman gets those too, he is much more than stats, but these stats allow common sense too, would you have to tell me why spiderman would lose to Galactus?
Originally posted by jinzin
you don't understand just how powerful captain marvel lightning bolt is do you, how powerful the majic that hurts supes is, you'de think supes would get dropped by me screaming abera cadabera the way you're going about it.... face it batman's suit has proven it's durability...on multiple occasions that's not all of the sudden going to change..cause....you don't like it....let it go.....let it go....lol.
You ignore that batman can get killed in one hit from spiderman, you dodge around it quite well, if his armor was so great, than he wouldn't need fighting skills and gadgets, spidey has faced worse armor. (Green goblin)
Originally posted by EvilCap America
This is the part where i indulge this innane trolling and the idea that Batman has Super-armor but only outside of his street level comics right?Just like Steel and Ironman have cardboard armor they wear when they think there arent any major villians around correct?
Yep just like how wolverine can take damage in a match from people like eleckra, but can shrugg off hits from namor, wierd huh?
Originally posted by jinzin
the hell?that's the way he's been presented...has a person who uses different TYPES of regular bat suits in diff situations....you don't like it, that's fine... but damn...are these characters not supposed to be allowed their best?
everyone here seems to think that spiderman can outmanuever and outdodge one of batmans batarangs with a homing device, but that batman's gonna show up to the fight in a damned kevlar scuba suit...the hell kind of bias is that?
No different than when you use ryu that is at his weakest in matches againsat guys like wolverine, but instead of using the one that can blow up mountains.
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Spiderman has also been "presented" as being able to beat a herald of Galactus but we all know that absolute crap writing.Im willing to look at crap wirting and call it like it is some other people arent though
What!?!?! I thought I was the only one to realize this.
Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Hey, you go tell the discovery channel or what not that said it in the first place, that was jinzin's source of information so maybe you should ask him so you can go tell them how wrong they are.As for your calculations, those numbers mean nothing to me, sorry, stuck on standard. 12 is a superior number to 10 anyway.
And as far as simply taking into account, that I've seen people who have been hit by a car, And I've seen people kicked by another human and I would be dull not to note that the damage is similar. Quite frankly, I don't know which I'd rather be hit with.
My metric calculations (pfft standard units 😄 ) basically just show that a non super-empowered man punching does not deal as much force/increase in momentum/damage as a vehicle travelling at roughly 40 mph. Jinzin doesn't say how fast the car was going so I used a low estimate.
If calculations don't work for you then how bout a logical analogy.
Saying that they do deal the same amount of damage is like saying that a stationary martial artist can stand in front of a speeding vehicle and stop/reverse it by punching it.
People overlook the fact that Batman needs the armour to withstand the bullets and even then the armour plates start to break. Spidey just dodges them. He is that fast. Im not saying that Bats cant dodge em just that he is outmatched here in most physical aspects which gives spidey an easy advantage in this fight. Bats could win but it would be something like 1 or 2/10 times if im being generous.
He's a capable adversary, but the problem is people drool over the feats of him, and not what he can logically do, which is why when you get into pressure and such( pressure over a wider area= less visible damage, which is why gettting hit over a wide area by a slow moving car, may not show much.)
Either way on a random match, bats is not one I'd bet money on.
Originally posted by brainchild81
Alien dogs who can walk up walls in an amazing and spectacular fashion
And don't you forget it...🙂
Originally posted by brainchild81
Batman AND Nightwing must've been taking on an Amazo who forgot about being invulnerable as Supes, intangible like MM, or fast as s**t like the Flash. That does more to make Amazo look sh*tty than Batman look tough. You guys should post pages.[Quote]And this is exactly the reason why it was a toned down amazo...
[Quote]Originally posted by brainchild81
And the award for "worst misuse of one of my favorite expressions" goes to you. You gotta make sense when you try to be witty.
I was not trying to be witty. I was making an observation...which was right on the money...and I am sorry I misuse your favorite expression...which I know I did not misuse it anyways tell me how I misused your favorite expression...if you don't mind my being curious...ps thanks for the award...is about time I get noticed..🙂
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Spiderman is MUCH faster than batman, especially in high gear. Since this match is bloodlust, i would expect his speed to be at least 20x faster. Batman is not more resistance to fatigue, spiderman has a superhuman metabolism, that means even the worlds best(Batman) would get exausted first, spiderman could compete in every olympic event, and do just fine.
What do you mean...spiderman will win every single event...are you being modest....🙂 because if you are this is not something to be modest about because even if spiderman is holding back he will still win every single event
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
No, its the opposite actually, considering Batman gets hit less than flash. He doesnt get hit by guys he SHOULD to keep him alive, and flash gets hit by guys he SHOULDN'T to make it interesting, get the drift.
This is a matter of psychology Flash is super fast and does not expect anyone to touch him....where as batman expects everything to touch him hence why he usually gets out of the way of the things that are thrown his way...
I agree, but also keep in mind that flash can take more damage, as he has an ultra metabolism, so he would get hit more than batman.
Superman, of course, like wolverine, would go all out, and get hit more than batman. Batman has one of the best applications around. Spiderman does to though.
Either way this is alot like the Punisher vs. Deadpool thread. Deadpool is almost what Punisher can be, adn so much more.
Other than that I pretty much agree with what you are saying.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's incorrect to say that a non super-empowered person's punch with a high pressure would cause as much [B]damage as a moving vehicle colliding with someone. The transfer of momentum due to a motor collision is more than 100 times more.
I haven't done physics in ages so this is probably flawed but...
(sorry I work in metric units)Pressure exerted = 28000 N/(m squared) (4000 psi)
Area of impact (fist) = approx 0.01 m squaredForce of punch = 280 N
Assume time of impact = 1 second
Impulse (change in momentum) = 280 x 1 = 280 kg m/sCar mass = approx 1500 kg
Car traveliing at approx 60 km/h = approx 20 m/s
Momentum of car = 20 x 1500 = 30000 kg m/s
For simplicity assume that the car is stopped by impact.
Also assume that the person and the car do not become stuck together i.e. elastic collision.
Momentum is conserved therefore:
Decrease in momentum of car = 30000 kg m/s
Increase in momentum of person = 30000 kg m/s30000>>280 [/B]
sorry man but like merc I'm kinda siding with the discovery channel on this one...I mean they had millions of dollars worth of tech to figure it out....not to say you don't know your shit...just that in a question of who I trust more....well I gotta give it to the guys who had multiple scientists and the tech....no offense....
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
You miss the point natural prowerss over human technicality, adn spidey can take AN ailen, its a very accurate comparison, seeing marine's have guns, and ailens do not, whats so hard about that.Stop quoting parts of my argument and argue the entire thing, please. 😮💨
is was said that a marine vs. an alien in a h2h fight.....in a straight up h2h brawl with an alien (that inclines no webbing to be used) spidey would get butt raped.....
Originally posted by willRules
People overlook the fact that Batman needs the armour to withstand the bullets and even then the armour plates start to break. Spidey just dodges them. He is that fast. Im not saying that Bats cant dodge em just that he is outmatched here in most physical aspects which gives spidey an easy advantage in this fight. Bats could win but it would be something like 1 or 2/10 times if im being generous.
bats dodges automatic machine gun fire......😕 A LOT actually...
<<<"No i totally disagree, agility is offensive, ask the ailens. Regardless anything that helps you avoid a defeat is a crucial part of victory, spiderman dodges all the time. It is what he does best.">>>
of course it's a part of obtaining a victory but it doesn't help offensively....and ask the aliens? what the hell? batman's the only one here who's fought the aliens...and kicked their collective asses...
<<<"Spiderman is MUCH faster than batman, especially in high gear. Since this match is bloodlust, i would expect his speed to be at least 20x faster. Batman is not more resistance to fatigue, spiderman has a superhuman metabolism, that means even the worlds best(Batman) would get exausted first, spiderman could compete in every olympic event, and do just fine.
Yet also flash gets hits more than batman, not fair eh?
If I were in a fight, with less skill,but I could react 15x faster than a normal person, and be stronger, and move MUCH faster, with an early detection system I would win, his abilities make batman a less effective figthter, why is this still being questioned?">>>
if you had all those powers and you were fighting batman........that's debeatable.....
"if I were a huge clay/mud man with incalcuable strength, no internal organs, speed, range, and stamina advantages that farrrrrrrr outweigh the human physicality....I could win against soe guy too........ oh wait, but batman isn't one of them..." 🙁
your example is moot...you are not a superhero....
<<<<"But spiderman has better travel, adn dodging.">>>>
better travel? WTF is that even supposed to mean? 😕 better dodging? ummmm no...he has an early warning system that allows him to keep from being sneaked up on.....however dodging.....that's fair game for either party....
<<<"Spiderman is a genius, he used his equipment from the supplies of a high school. He definitely gets the science portion.">>>
do you even read batman?
<<<"Yep and spiderman gets those too, he is much more than stats, but these stats allow common sense too, would you have to tell me why spiderman would lose to Galactus? ">>>
god I hope not....