Originally posted by jinzin
hey man..I didn't make the character..that's just the way he's been presented...
Spiderman has also been "presented" as being able to beat a herald of Galactus but we all know that absolute crap writing.Im willing to look at crap wirting and call it like it is some other people arent though
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Spiderman has also been "presented" as being able to beat a herald of Galactus but we all know that absolute crap writing.Im willing to look at crap wirting and call it like it is some other people arent though
and an old decrepid batman's been presented to beat the crap out of superman and almost kill him..... see how easy it is to use examples like that to support an argument when you neglect HOW those examples came to be?...
Originally posted by jinzinRight there Spidey should've crushed Batman's hand and said "That's for trying to use wristlocks on me b**ch" 🙂 But Spidey's too "friendly" to do that I guess. It always seems like Bats has some kinda jealousy and dislike towards Spidey in those crossovers.
oh dude..they totally can though...
Originally posted by jinzin
and an old decrepid batman's been presented to beat the crap out of superman and almost kill him..... see how easy it is to use examples like that to support an argument when you neglect HOW those examples came to be?...
An old decripted Batman in a suit of power armor fighting a Superman weakened and nearly by a Nuclear Missle that launched an EM Pulse battered around by several cruise missle bats planted waiting for him[which were to test just how weakened he was] trigged by his x-ray vision then nailed with a massive sonic burst acid to the face and an exploding Kryponite arrow
But yes it IS easy to see how examples like that come about.Bats shouldnt be taking hits from Darksied anymore than Spiderman shouldnt whip Heralds the main problem here is certain people dont recognize silly moments equally
If Bats brought a suit of power armor even 2/3rds as good as Steel/IMs id say he wins but he doesnt.Its because Bats as much as hes been written up is simply the worlds greatest Detective NOT Dr.Doom with endless uber-tech.
Because different people handle things in different ways.
Everyone thinks that Batman's strong... but he's really not. I know people who've had people close to them die - heck, even my baby sister died. But it doesn't turn them into paranoid, reclusive, vengeance-hunting freaks! 😄
He's a very weak character emotionally - despite the gruff voice and the costumes! 😄 But then, Spidey's weaker.
Until you decide to compare muscle strength, where Spidey snaps Bats in half! 😉
Originally posted by EvilCap America
An old decripted Batman in a suit of power armor fighting a Superman weakened and nearly by a Nuclear Missle that launched an EM Pulse battered around by several cruise missle bats planted waiting for him[which were to test just how weakened he was] trigged by his x-ray vision then nailed with a massive sonic burst acid to the face and an exploding Kryponite arrowBut yes it IS easy to see how examples like that come about.Bats shouldnt be taking hits from Darksied anymore than Spiderman shouldnt whip Heralds the main problem here is certain people dont recognize silly moments equally
If Bats brought a suit of power armor even 2/3rds as good as Steel/IMs id say he wins but he doesnt.Its because Bats as much as hes been written up is simply the worlds greatest Detective NOT Dr.Doom with endless uber-tech.
he's a lot more than that.....you don't demand respect from an admittedly overpowered team of superheroes like the JLA, much less darksied for being just a great detective, if that was the case Q would be batman's equal..he's not...thing is spiderman DID beat a herald of galactus but he DIDN'T do it with his fists alone, there were outside circumstances that led to it, which was the point of the dark night returns example...circumstances led up to both of those... but batman however DIDN'T have outside circumstanses involved when he was hit....he was just hit... you can call it PIS all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that those are the life experiences batman has had..take away the life experiences and there's no point in arguing here, because you're arguing against a character that doesn't exist... but instead arguing against a character the way you think he SHOULD be..... semantics aside, batman's suit is more than capible of allowing him to hang with spidey h2h, batman even without the suit hung with a class 10 villain and didn't die, so I really don't see what's left to argue over as far as his suits durability goes, you can spout off your opinions, but they don't always correlate with comic book evidence....you can try and downgrade the evidnence and discard it, and then scoff at the people using comic book evidence but that doesn't mean that your opionion takes presidence over the fictional events that have taken place during the fictional life expieriences, during a fictional characters fictional life, in a fictional world, that resides in a fictional universe, that was inspired by someone's fictional take on reality......because............you don't like it.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Batman deals the damage of a car wreck? 🤨
So behind ever punch is the momentum of a moving vehicle?
A car weighs tons, Batman (last time I checked unless he's really let himself go) does not, a car has the momentum of that weight behind it. The transfer of momentum from the moving body (the car) to the stationary body (the person) is what causes the damage.
Many martial artist have punches recorded at over 2000 psi of pressure. Highest recorded strike is over 4000. Batman is a "perfect" physical specimen with top tier martial arts training, and please don't forget, a comic book character. A car smashing into a tree crumples, Batman punching a try smashes it into splinters (Batman "Year One."😉 What part of that is illogical?
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Argh... No one is denying that Batman is an incredibly skilled fighter and could pull off a win. But no one on the Batman side seems to even acknowledge the fact that Spiderman could win let alone accept that more often than not Spiderman would pull off a win.
I can see how that might occure to you, but the fact of the matter is "I think Batman ever so slightly edges out his opponent" doesn't make for a good arguement.
It's incorrect to say that a non super-empowered person's punch with a high pressure would cause as much damage as a moving vehicle colliding with someone. The transfer of momentum due to a motor collision is more than 100 times more.
I haven't done physics in ages so this is probably flawed but...
(sorry I work in metric units)
Pressure exerted = 28000 N/(m squared) (4000 psi)
Area of impact (fist) = approx 0.01 m squared
Force of punch = 280 N
Assume time of impact = 1 second
Impulse (change in momentum) = 280 x 1 = 280 kg m/s
Car mass = approx 1500 kg
Car traveliing at approx 60 km/h = approx 20 m/s
Momentum of car = 20 x 1500 = 30000 kg m/s
For simplicity assume that the car is stopped by impact.
Also assume that the person and the car do not become stuck together i.e. elastic collision.
Momentum is conserved therefore:
Decrease in momentum of car = 30000 kg m/s
Increase in momentum of person = 30000 kg m/s
30000>>280
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's incorrect to say that a non super-empowered person's punch with a high pressure would cause as much [B]damage as a moving vehicle colliding with someone. The transfer of momentum due to a motor collision is more than 100 times more.
I haven't done physics in ages so this is probably flawed but...
(sorry I work in metric units)Pressure exerted = 28000 N/(m squared) (4000 psi)
Area of impact (fist) = approx 0.01 m squaredForce of punch = 280 N
Assume time of impact = 1 second
Impulse (change in momentum) = 280 x 1 = 280 kg m/sCar mass = approx 1500 kg
Car traveliing at approx 60 km/h = approx 20 m/s
Momentum of car = 20 x 1500 = 30000 kg m/s
For simplicity assume that the car is stopped by impact.
Also assume that the person and the car do not become stuck together i.e. elastic collision.
Momentum is conserved therefore:
Decrease in momentum of car = 30000 kg m/s
Increase in momentum of person = 30000 kg m/s30000>>280 [/B]
Hey, you go tell the discovery channel or what not that said it in the first place, that was jinzin's source of information so maybe you should ask him so you can go tell them how wrong they are.
As for your calculations, those numbers mean nothing to me, sorry, stuck on standard. 12 is a superior number to 10 anyway.
And as far as simply taking into account, that I've seen people who have been hit by a car, And I've seen people kicked by another human and I would be dull not to note that the damage is similar. Quite frankly, I don't know which I'd rather be hit with.
Originally posted by jinzin
"Batman can win, and I like him very much, but I simply don't see this in a hand to hand confrontation. Take the ailens for example and place them hand 2hand with a marine, not very pretty. Even though a marine can fight SKILLFULLY, they are simply overwhelmed by the prowress of an ailen, along with the speed and such, and spidermans more dangerous, strong etc. than an ailen. Add inprecognition, and put him in bloodlust( forum guidelines), and bat is simply overwhelmed in hand2hand, because he has not enough options"you tell me about irrelivency and then bring this up? wtf? spiderman would most likely be killed in a h2h confrontation with an alien too....that's hardly a good comparison..
You miss the point natural prowerss over human technicality, adn spidey can take AN ailen, its a very accurate comparison, seeing marine's have guns, and ailens do not, whats so hard about that.
Stop quoting parts of my argument and argue the entire thing, please. 😮💨
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's incorrect to say that a non super-empowered person's punch with a high pressure would cause as much [B]damage as a moving vehicle colliding with someone. The transfer of momentum due to a motor collision is more than 100 times more.
I haven't done physics in ages so this is probably flawed but...
(sorry I work in metric units)Pressure exerted = 28000 N/(m squared) (4000 psi)
Area of impact (fist) = approx 0.01 m squaredForce of punch = 280 N
Assume time of impact = 1 second
Impulse (change in momentum) = 280 x 1 = 280 kg m/sCar mass = approx 1500 kg
Car traveliing at approx 60 km/h = approx 20 m/s
Momentum of car = 20 x 1500 = 30000 kg m/s
For simplicity assume that the car is stopped by impact.
Also assume that the person and the car do not become stuck together i.e. elastic collision.
Momentum is conserved therefore:
Decrease in momentum of car = 30000 kg m/s
Increase in momentum of person = 30000 kg m/s30000>>280 [/B]
Its very innacurate, he's deeming that a person in the car, that would be more accurate, than a person directly hit by a car. Cars tear limbs and do more damage than a fist.