How about facts. Spiderman can press 15 tons. SPiderman is aabout 15X as fast as normal beings. If spiderman punched daredevil all out. he'd go splat
Originally posted by jinzin
SM was going for the kill he hit daredevil full on...that's just a fact......whether he was tranced out or not isn't the point....his reflex time is reduced to a normal person...but he was still moving using his bodies speed.......you guys want to say that spidey can move faster than average because of his comparitive strength......he still had his strength here.....if he's faster than people because he's stronger than people he still holds said advantage here too.....his speed is all relative anyways...he was fast enough to hit daredevil full on and that's the point (I'm not debating whether or not his spider sense was working)....he hit daredevil with no restraint.....he wasn't slow....just had no "pre-cognition" reaction time........Daredevil survived....so did ox....so did eddie.....nuff said....really it is.
Originally posted by jinzin
wait I got more.... for everyone who thinks spidey can cripple bats in one solid hit......spiderman pummeled.....litteraly just laid the f*** into sin eater in one of his most pissed off rages seen since gwens death.....after about half a dozen on paper blows...sin eater was unconcious.....but alive....even after recovering and being taken into custody he was karate chopping police........so there goes that theory.....another thing.....it also depends on what kind of armor bats is wearing....sometimes his suit isn't enough to stop on 6 shooter bullet from making penetration....sometimes he wears armor that stops double barraled buck shots at point blank range......considering everyone's saying these characters will be going all out and he doesn't have superpowers I think he should have the anti-buck shot costume......Also without any costume whatsoever....batman was taken multiple blows from a guy who was hyped up on bane venom....but it was enhanced bane venom...made him stronger than bane by far and bullet proof to boot....batman was fine.....
Now....for people that think spiderman's spidersense will save him here......daredevil faked spidey's spider sense out by deflecting a billy club off a tree towards sm and then hitting parker while parker caught it....then he "outsmarted" the sense by faking it out with half his billy club and hitting spidey with the other.....then he KOed that's right knocked out an enraged spiderman in a dozen or so punches........If he could outsmart spidermans spider sense with a billy club I have no doubt batman would do the same with his toys.....if he can drop spiderman with a dozen well placed punches....I shudder to think what batmans touch of death blows would be doing to sm......Like I said the traps in dooms place were automated...that drastically drops their effectivness in the comic world (unless they're sentinals, or uber cyborgs). For instance......even logan is able to dodge and leap and bound all over a whole house full of automated traps.....batman's a different story alltogether.....And whether spidey has greatly improved in h2h or not spiderman is no where near bat's level.....we also have to take into account that batman improved a huge amount during the end of knightfall alone.....since then...well...you know the rest....
"Read the actual comic (the time I wasted arguing with people who don't know what they are talking about)."
you're an idiot....do you even know who the original sin eater was?....mister stan carter?.........not the "active" sin eater in the venom comics......This is a regular human being who's pretty handy with a shotgun....THAT'S IT! don't tell me i don't know what I'm talking about when it's obvious the only one suffering from that affinity here is you.....
"How about facts. Spiderman can press 15 tons. SPiderman is aabout 15X as fast as normal beings. If spiderman punched daredevil all out. he'd go splat"
few things......first off....no he wouldn't. the woman in wolverine vs. spidey took a full on punch to the grill and she didn't go "splat" she died yeah...but she was already dying......second.... a spidey out for the kill hit daredevil full on sending him through a house and daredevil was still resolute enough to fight him..... third..... as I said before an enraged spiderman who was actually trying to kill his opponent sin-eater (nothing more than a human) hit the guy over and over.....though carter was left with a limp for the rest of his life he was still karate chopping police officers in the throats after he regained conciousness and he wasn't at peak human condition nor did he have a bat-suit....... fourth, spiderman still in his enraged state punched daredevil out of a 10 story window....and daredevil in turn whipped his ass..... fith,,,,,assuming that spiderman is gonna get close enough and be good enough to hit batman is one thing....thinking that batman's suit that can stop buck shots at point blank won't help him whatsoever is another......but assuming that bats isn't gonna be a good enough fighter to roll with/if not dodge said punches and just be standing there to take it in the face....well that's downright ignorant....hey if it's who can take who out while the other guy stands there and takes it......well batgrenade......lol
"You make some good points about the flaws in spider-mans spider sense
but Daredevil has super powers that allow him to be flawless in his aim at almost 100% of the time. He has been ricocheting that club for years and I would say that the ability to do it has become one of his trademark moves. He is also well aware of the spidersense and has been for years. I still think that batmans h2h skills are being overated somewhat because if he was capable of beating Spidey so easily Bane should have never ( whether he had faced his rouge gallery or not) been able to deal him such a crippling blow."
Well daredevils ability to throw the billy club is not a point I'm debating....the POINT is thus: if daredevil can outsmart spiderman's spidersense using very limited and (compared to batman) primitave means......batman will be able to do it better and more humiliatingly......I don't feel I'm overestimating his fighting skills in the least....If he is a true master of 130 some odd styles of h2h that would automatically make him enormously superior over spiderman.........(i'm not saying having more fighting styles automatically makes him the man....cause I don't believe that but.....if he's using everything he knows about h2h he would be virtually unbeatable in said combat against an overglorified street fighter....) Now against bane you have to remember a few things....batman was extremely fatigued.....you may feel that it's a moote point....but it appeared as though batman was so tired he had trouble getting up from his chair...his body was sore,,,,his muscles fatigued and he had a lack of sleep for days.....Bane showed up at peak human performance...plus his superstrength...batman was also caught without his weapons and such...another thing you're forgetting is that bane is an EXTREEEEEMLY good fighter.......even without his venom he's at or around bat's level in h2h.....plus not only does the venom enhance his strength into the 5 to 7 ton range....but it also makes him completely resistant to pain.....at that point batman wasn't ready mentally, emotionally, or physically.....he had WAAAAAAAAAY too many factors going against him....
"Spider-man will never be shown splattering anyone because that is not how marvel wants him to be perceived. Nevertheless it is illogicall to say that he could not do it if he wanted to and used the strength that he has access to to strike. The Hulk rarely splats people either and the same goes for almost every comic book powerhouse in DC or marvel. The only reason that it doesn't happen more is simple. It's not in the script. Using that same reasoning this Batman vs Spiderman fight isn't in the script either."
well this is a really easy way out of the debate....but it reflects on the same crap writing argument problems....if we're going to discuss comic book characters we have no choice but to use past feats.....without them...we're not discussing comic book characters any more.......again this isn't a semantic argument....it's a comic book one....don't try to disregard past feats for such......in the same logic the only reason spiderman has a script is because marvel had some creative people who wanted a profit......see where the logic falters in this semantic thinking......it's farrrrrr easier to just stay within the confines of the comics..... but don't get me wrong, even then it's a pain in the ass.
"Batman unlike DD doesn't have any Superhuman powers to assist him in fooling the Spider sense that he is also unaware of."
ummmm daredevil only used his senses to dodge spidey's blows. he used logical thinking to outsmart the spidersense.....in this regard I think bat's has dd beat....like I said IF batman for some reason forgot their past encounter and forgot about spiderman's spidersense....after the first two attacks batman will have figured out everything he needs to know about parker....this is what the guy does....
"The guy who you say was stronger than Bane by far is probably still nowhere compared to Spideys strength level."
well considering it was an upgrade from banes own venom......it's safe to say that this guy was in the 6 to 8 ton range at least......at most 10 to 11...
"Spidey is also much smaller than most powerhouses and that means his power is more focused/ concentrated than a huge person. If the sin eater guy is human and Spidey supposedly tried to kill him and failed then that means that certain bullets wouldn't penetrate this guys flesh because Spidey has been shown damaging robots that are definitely bulletproof."
In my opinion....I defer to the martial arts study......kicks and punches enough to decimate wood, brick, metals, ice, cement, etc.....but couldn't break a guys ribbs.
"The only way Batman could beat Spider-man is if Spidey was at his absolute worst and Batman was at his absolute best."
that's a bit insulting to batman's character and past feats.not really a point though...just an opinion. so......
" But with these type of fight conditions Batman falls unconscious or dead to Spidey.'
I disagree.
"Spiderman can lift a 10 ton semi off of him so it's illogical to think there is any human that can shrug off full force blows from him especially when humans can deliver full force knockout blows to other humans."
again....I defer to the 5 points I made about this in my last post.
" Spidey has Ko'd the scorpion in three blows so that's faster than Bats did it. Spidey is also strong enough to make any point on a humans body a pressure point. If he can pinch off a gun barrel and most people cant pinch a pen hard enough to break it, imagine him grabbing and squeezing any part of a humans body. Insta crunch."
well daredevil knocked peter's ass out in a dozen well placed punches...batman's said to hit harder than daredevil, and he should be a better fighter...what does that tell you?......
...and not to be a prick...but you're wrong about the scorpion thing.....actually batman did KO scorpion in 3 hits....lol
I get the insta crunch thing...but then again....he'd have to get past a lot of batman's arsenal to do that.....
" Was this bulletproof dude Bats fought stronger than the 10 ton presser? if not then how was he bulletproof?"
it wasn't clearly explained....either because metal was infused under his skin...or (more likely due to no reference of metal) the muscles had beome so large yet compact and tense that the bullets couldn't penetrate it....(I'll check it out later....but that's how I remember it.)
i caught it...I think he's probably hitting with more than that...probably like 2 to 3000 maybe more...but everyone thinks batmans just gonna be standing there to take said blow in the gril without doing anything to protect himself....another thing is that they don't understand if spidey literally throws everything he has into his punches he'll be terribly off balance and have only forward momentum...and he'll wind up getting trounced anyways
Originally posted by jinzin
...another thing is that they don't understand if spidey literally throws everything he has into his punches he'll be terribly off balance and have only forward momentum...
Originally posted by jinzin
OK I'm back.Some people say Batman will dodge all of Spider-man's attacks but you have not shown any proof that he can.He gets hit by slow moving people like Rhino(Scar Face's henchmen) Killer Crock ,and some of Joker's henchmen not to mention Mr.J him self.A punch from Spider-man will do allot more damage.Batman is smart the Spider-man but Spider-man has taken on Doom with prep time and still came out on top.To the better fighting training the that you say will give Batman the win and the ability to dodge all of Spider-man's attacks(a fue years ago Beat fought Wolverine and Beast won.Wolverine has much more training in fighting then Beast but superior speed agility and strength helped him win the fight.So I stilll do not see what Batman can do to win with out prep time.Please tell me give stuff that will give him the win in a random out side fight.
Originally posted by Blade Cutter
So I stilll do not see what Batman can do to win with out prep time.Please tell me give stuff that will give him the win in a random out side fight.
Batman can handle strength, handle speed, handle superior reflexes, handle a spider-sense, handle durability, handle webs and so on...
But he can NOT deal with these abilities all at the same time. He goes down, hard and fast.
"You're beginning to sound pretty desperate (Spider-Man punching so hard he becomes "off balance" ?! ?... Yeah sure why not, that happens all the time )"
or downright logical....do you even get the legistics of fighting? speaking of which how often do you fight or train to fight? assuming you do either you'd already know that.....
"I'm going to try to make this response easy to understand but if I rant a little - my bad..
OK You stated that DD outsmarted the spider-sense using limited means but I wouldn't say that considering the fact that he has the super power of a imperfect radar sense allows him to strike impossible targets with 100% accuracy. It's obvious that his supersenses are used to do it because he's blind. Batman doesn't have super senses to assist him in predicting the quick movements of Spidey."
I get where you're coming from....but DD didn't say anything about tracking spiderman with his radar sense.....not that he wasn't...just that he wasn't totally reliant on hitting spidey using said sense at it's max potential......now whether you believe it or not DD DID in fact beat down spiderman using limited means.....and Batman legistically should be a better fighter than daredevil.
"The many styles that Batman has learned would not help him as much as you seem to think for there couldn't possibly be a style that would allow someone to be superior to a fighter like spidey because there aren't any humans that can even closely mimic spider-mans movements."
Well the fighting thing.......karate kid, iron fist, white tiger, white ninja, anyone of the trio....the list goes on and on...as for the movements, there are plenty....wolverine, daredevil, taskmaster, batman most definitely fits into this category....he ran down a speeding get away car by first scaling a building and then "building hopping" and grapnel hooking for blocks and blocks until he caught up with it...after doing siad feat he wasn't even short of breath....His jumpinh ability and agility may not be as exxadurated as spidey's but definitely comparible at the human level....
"His webbing serves many different purposes including allowing him to strike very very quickly ( I think that it's been stated that he maxes at near 200 mph but I'm not sure and I'm sure that it's over 130 mph which is still very fast) and efficiantly. He can also set traps and shoot projectiles with his webbing. Walls and ceilings are as useful to him as the ground and he is very effective on them from years and years of practise and this increases his attack radius and options. Spidey has knocked out a " no pain feeling " guy with a unpulled punch and of course the guy didn't splat but has anyone ever splatted from a punch in the comics? This punch was the equivalent of a Splat because this dude was supposed to be badass ****ed up a whole lot of guys and stated that he couldn't feel pain at all. He has also humiliated a gang of highly skilled ninja assasins"
Okay i realize how versatile spidey can be with his webbing..I'm not debating that.....you guys seem to be giving spiderman the benifit of the doubt in every sense of the term when ever I bring up batman's toys....saying his spidersense will compensate fr anything bat's throws at him....I'm saying that isn't true....due to the daredevil example...I at least have decent evidence.... however sinse you feel so inclined to give him said benefit, despite the fact that batman's got more devistating and better weapons to use....I give batman the benifit of the doubt against spiderman's webbing because he can elude it based off past feats of elusive maneauvers and agility....the ninjas? yeah so what? wolverine, daredevil, and elektra, fight hundreds and hundreds of ninjas at any given time like it's nothing.....you seem to be forgetting that it only took ONE well trained ninja to take it to spidey as well.......
"Batman is only one guy so it's ridiculous to assume that he can and will outmanuveur Spidey EVEN THOUGH he has no super anything to help him move faster than Spidey can react."
that was the whole point of using batmans toys in this debate...
"I also think that Batmans musculature is being compared to wolverines as far as Durability goes. Batmans bones could be harder than steel but his muscles are human and even a skull made of stainless can be collapsed due to the fact that it's hollow. The bat's skull is not possibly as hard as steel cause his head ain't bullet proof is it? You spoke of using previous comics to back up claims and that being the main source of info. Well I have stated before that Spidey has splatted the bullet proof skulls of many robots so there's the evidence that he can splat a weaker skull than that. The Bats weapons can fail and most likely will if he doesn't have more than what he regularly carries."
i get that batman's human...but again he's not gonna be just standing there to take those shots.....I also defer to my past like 4 explinations of how batman would survive those blows....if you can't accept that I'm just sorry....but that's the way we're given the characters...lastely...I simply disagree....
"OK I'm back.Some people say Batman will dodge all of Spider-man's attacks but you have not shown any proof that he can.He gets hit by slow moving people like Rhino(Scar Face's henchmen) Killer Crock ,and some of Joker's henchmen not to mention Mr.J him self.A punch from Spider-man will do allot more damage.Batman is smart the Spider-man but Spider-man has taken on Doom with prep time and still came out on top.To the better fighting training the that you say will give Batman the win and the ability to dodge all of Spider-man's attacks(a fue years ago Beat fought Wolverine and Beast won.Wolverine has much more training in fighting then Beast but superior speed agility and strength helped him win the fight.So I stilll do not see what Batman can do to win with out prep time.Please tell me give stuff that will give him the win in a random out side fight."
You think Killer croc is slow? what are you basing that off of, the cartoon? pffft. anyways, dude it works both ways....there are literally hundreds of examples of street level speed characters hitting spidey there are handfuls of street level characters beating spidey up or stalemating him and there are quite a few examples of spiderman's spidersense unable to compensate for him (ties in with the streeters but even then you seem to want to use spidey at his absolute best so not even knockout gas and batgrenades and handfulls of baterangs will EVER EVER touch him....I'm in turn giving him the ben. of the doubt that he can dodge a lot of spiderman's attacks...and just completely trash him in a hand to hand confrontation.....
Originally posted by jinzin
or downright logical....do you even get the legistics of fighting? speaking of which how often do you fight or train to fight? assuming you do either you'd already know that.....
But you actually put a smile upon my face by saying : Spider-Man will punch so hard he loses his balance 😉. So so, Batman wins after all, who would have thought that...