Originally posted by Cosmic CubeA vigilante is neither a good guy or a bad guy . . Magneto is also a vigilante
Juggernaut is far from a vigilante. Juggernaut wasn't a hero until recently, so he certainly isn't a vigilante. Even now, he's an X-Man so he still isn't a vigilante; they are under the employ of Charles Xavier.
Originally posted by IRTMU-DragonIt's not an insult. It's true. You go against the way that english words are defined, which is why a large number of debates turn to semantics.
Why dont you continue to insult people, Creshok.Your completely mixed up on your views of Anti-Heroism and Vigilantes in marvels world.
Since people can't agree on what a word means (I like to use the English defenition of an english word. I'm kooky that way). How can they agree on something that is debated using words?
Nobody can argue with you guys because you have different defenitions of the words from the people you're debating with.
Originally posted by Creshosk
A vigilante is neither a good guy or a bad guy . . Magneto is also a vigilanteIt's not an insult. It's true. You go against the way that english words are defined, which is why a large number of debates turn to semantics.
Since people can't agree on what a word means (I like to use the English defenition of an english word. I'm kooky that way). How can they agree on something that is debated using words?
Nobody can argue with you guys because you have different defenitions of the words from the people you're debating with.
Actually, a vigilante is a good guy, too. A vigilante is someone who takes the uphold of Justice into their own hands, like Superman, or Spiderman. People are just used to the word meaning something dark, or gothic. It is derived from the word "vigilant" which means "being watchful."
Originally posted by Cosmic CubeWords are preverted from originally what they're defined on.
Actually, a vigilante is a good guy, too. A vigilante is someone who takes the uphold of Justice into their own hands, like Superman, or Spiderman. People are just used to the word meaning something dark, or gothic. It is derived from the word "vigilant" which means "being watchful."
Ronin doesn't mean what it used to mean.
Magneto takes justice into his own hands as well. He trys to end mutant oppresion (an injustice) by eliminating the humans.
Much the same way that people ended the oppresion of the jews (and the others) by eliminating the nazis.
Technically vigilantism is illegal as well . . .
Originally posted by Creshosk
Words are preverted from originally what they're defined on.Ronin doesn't mean what it used to mean.
Magneto takes justice into his own hands as well. He trys to end mutant oppresion (an injustice) by eliminating the humans.
Much the same way that people ended the oppresion of the jews (and the others) by eliminating the nazis.
Technically vigilantism is illegal as well . . .
Of course it's illegal, in a society with laws, and officials with enough power to enforce them.
You're kinda contradicting yourself. You're saying that everyone else is misinterpreting the English language, yet you've got your own set of definitions. Instead of being critical, try to find common ground.
Originally posted by Cosmic CubeForgive me for using a set of words as they come from a dictionary. Please forgive me for not compromising on something that has already been determined.
Of course it's illegal, in a society with laws, and officials with enough power to enforce them.You're kinda contradicting yourself. You're saying that everyone else is misinterpreting the English language, yet you've got your own set of definitions. Instead of being critical, try to find common ground.
Is this why you're mad at me for not accepting the alteration of another persons predefined character from the way this predefined character has been used by it's creator/owner?
Originally posted by Creshosk
Because you know the person with the greater stength always wins, right? The weaker hero NEVER wins.And people not being knowcked out by a spidey punch occurs more often than people being knocked out by a spidey punch.
I've seen only one person geet knocked out by a spidey punch in these debates.
It's like you're trying to dispose of all of Spidey's other attributes to try and create this image where Spidey is this dumba** brute that has, basically, no method of offense and Batman is this uber ultra-intelligent, Superman slappin', prepared for any and everything, anti-heroic celestial.
Are you seriously willing to bet that a person with gifted level intellingence, superhuman speed, strength, agility, equilbrium, reflexes, etc would have no chance against one who needs the chi to perform superhuman feats that Spidey himself would/could pull off without having to think about it? You see, it's not always about KO'ing an enemy and being done with it for someone like Spidey. Spidey has morals, he has boundaries, he's weighed down by the guilt he feels from the death of others. It's because of this that it's until the guy gets angry that he really tries to really take it to an enemy (especially human ones), a calm Spidey would rather bounce around an armed thug all day than knock him out.....granted he'd do it, but only if the guy stole something, threatened to take the life of another, or just crossed his path while he was in a really grumpy mood.
If you can't comprehend by now the devastating effect of an unpulled punch to a normal human from a guy with the physical capacity to lift, what is currently, more than 10 tons then I'd really suggest you'd start reading up on the skeletal structure of a normal guy, vigilante or not.
Originally posted by StrawNillaWow those words taste bad, did you wash them off before you put them in my mouth? 🙂
It's NOT JUST ABOUT STRENGTH IN THIS CASE.It's like you're trying to dispose of all of Spidey's other attributes to try and create this image where Spidey is this dumba** brute that has, basically, no method of offense and Batman is this uber ultra-intelligent, Superman slappin', prepared for any and everything, anti-heroic celestial.
Are you seriously willing to bet that a person with gifted level intellingence, superhuman speed, strength, agility, equilbrium, reflexes, etc would have no chance against one who needs the chi to perform superhuman feats that Spidey himself would/could pull off without having to think about it? You see, it's not always about KO'ing an enemy and being done with it for someone like Spidey. Spidey has morals, he has boundaries, he's weighed down by the guilt he feels from the death of others. It's because of this that it's until the guy gets angry that he really tries to really take it to an enemy (especially human ones), a calm Spidey would rather bounce around an armed thug all day than knock him out.....granted he'd do it, but only if the guy stole something, threatened to take the life of another, or just crossed his path while he was in a really grumpy mood.
If you can't comprehend by now the devastating effect of an unpulled punch to a normal human from a guy with the physical capacity to lift, what is currently, more than 10 tons then I'd really suggest you'd start reading up on the skeletal structure of a normal guy, vigilante or not.
You're applying real world physics to a comic book? 😆
Spider man has punched normal people before and you know what happened? Take a wild guess.
Daredevil: Sent flying through a window but *GASP!* Still concious.
Wolverine: Destroyed the object behind him but, you guessed it still concious.
Doc Oc: Oh, now this one was knocked out. . . that's 1/3. . .
30% knock out ratio. 🙂
Then again wolverine happened twice. . . more. . . 1/5 lowering oit to 20%
Knocking out people with his strength doesn't appear to be one of his strengths. lol 🙂
Originally posted by Creshosk
Wow those words taste bad, did you wash them off before you put them in my mouth? 🙂You're applying real world physics to a comic book? 😆
Spider man has punched normal people before and you know what happened? Take a wild guess.
Daredevil: Sent flying through a window but *GASP!* Still concious.
Wolverine: Destroyed the object behind him but, you guessed it still concious.
Doc Oc: Oh, now this one was knocked out. . . that's 1/3. . .30% knock out ratio. 🙂
Then again wolverine happened twice. . . more. . . 1/5 lowering oit to 20%
Knocking out people with his strength doesn't appear to be one of his strengths. lol 🙂
Does Spidey not have morals? Does Spidey not have a concious? Do you think that EVERY example of Spidey hitting someone is set during a time where Spidey WANTS to hurt that person? You're either fooling yourself or you're trying to fool me....either way, I could care less. It's sad when one can't bring logic and rationality into an argument without having it ignored and laughed at for no good reason other than a lack of anything else to retaliate with.
Moving on, your example of Spidey sending DD through a window and saying that DD wasn't knocked unconcious? Flawed. First of all, how much force do you think a guy with Spidey's strength needs to punch a guy DD's weight off of his feet without knocking him out?
And Wolverine? The guy that goes from taking six issues to heal an eye to walking away from a thermonuclear explosion with a smile on his face? Please don't tell me you're about to bring him into an argument involving PIS/CIS.....
And Doc Ock, as you admitted, was knocked out. And as you could or could not tell, Spidey felt that taking an action such as using enough force to knock Doc Ock out was nessecary.....unlike so in your other examples.
Rationality nor grasping the concept behind a 'versus' forum such as this one seems not to be one of your strengths. And, before I close, I'd like to pitch in an example of what could happen when Batman rushes into a battle with no prep time.....the name 'Predator' ring a bell?
Originally posted by StrawNillaYou mean the one that beat Bats like a naughty child with a piece of wood? Good post!
How else can you argue in a thread but with physics if you expect to get anywhere? Without physics, people are only going to bring up PIS/CIS examples, I mean, what good are superpowers to a comic book character anymore if no one's going to take them seriously since the writer has to make said character make a few mistakes and lose to a character said character is perfectly capable of dismantling.Does Spidey not have morals? Does Spidey not have a concious? Do you think that EVERY example of Spidey hitting someone is set during a time where Spidey WANTS to hurt that person? You're either fooling yourself or you're trying to fool me....either way, I could care less. It's sad when one can't bring logic and rationality into an argument without having it ignored and laughed at for no good reason other than a lack of anything else to retaliate with.
Moving on, your example of Spidey sending DD through a window and saying that DD wasn't knocked unconcious? Flawed. First of all, how much force do you think a guy with Spidey's strength needs to punch a guy DD's weight off of his feet without knocking him out?
And Wolverine? The guy that goes from taking six issues to heal an eye to walking away from a thermonuclear explosion with a smile on his face? Please don't tell me you're about to bring him into an argument involving PIS/CIS.....
And Doc Ock, as you admitted, was knocked out. And as you could or could not tell, Spidey felt that taking an action such as using enough force to knock Doc Ock out was nessecary.....unlike so in your other examples.
Rationality nor grasping the concept behind a 'versus' forum such as this one seems not to be one of your strengths. And, before I close, I'd like to pitch in an example of what could happen when Batman rushes into a battle with no prep time.....the name 'Predator' ring a bell?
Originally posted by StrawNilla
It's sad when one can't bring logic and rationality into an argument without having it ignored and laughed at for no good reason other than a lack of anything else to retaliate with.
Your right. I try to bring in logic and rationality, but you choose to discard it because it doesn't fit in with your preconceved ideas that go against an established character. ❌
Originally posted by StrawNillaYeah, Strawmen arguments are wonderful examples. 😄
Thank you.
I mean the points I brought up are all within the Marvel Universe. . . So you had to go to the extreme and bring in a crossover.
Hey, you remember the time when Batman kicked a hulk in the stomache and the hulk FELT it?
Oh yeah, crossovers are marvelous. 🙂
Originally posted by Creshosk
Forgive me for using a set of words as they come from a dictionary. Please forgive me for not compromising on something that has already been determined.Is this why you're mad at me for not accepting the alteration of another persons predefined character from the way this predefined character has been used by it's creator/owner?
You are swapping sides like none other. You just tried to justify yourself by saying that the meaning of a word changes over time. Now you're saying that you are using the dictionary's definition.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Well maybe the knocking out doc oc was a PIS/CIS. 🙂Therefore that never happened. I mean really. He didn't knock out doc oc in the movie 😆 he didn't even knock the sunglasses off his face or break them. 😆
Seriously, if you're going to do that then I say we can start using the argument: "Batman and Robin sucked a** and the Spiderman movies were so much better so Spidey wins!"