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Originally posted by Cosmic CubeYou can't use actual events! History is irrealevent! The helmet protects him from the psionic attacks the X-men can't get in through it.
*attacks*Bad analogy. First off, Juggernaut doesn't outclass the X-Men. He may be stronger than any single X-Man, but they are far more powerful as a team.
Spiderman, as an individual, outclasses Batman, as an individual.
Juggernaut has an exclusive weakness to telepathy, which is exploited every time the X-Men prevail.
Spiderman has no such vulnerability.
Juggernaut is strong enough to just swat any of the x-men that attack him.
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
At any given time the X-men have 30 telepaths on hand. And half of them are always Jean Grey's kids. They just have to gang rape the helmets then zap him.
But The helmet protects him from psionic attacks. What telepath can take him on?
*waits for someone to catch on, like he was expecting someone to before*
Originally posted by Creshosk
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You can't use actual events! History is irrealevent! The helmet protects him from the psionic attacks the X-men can't get in through it.Juggernaut is strong enough to just swat any of the x-men that attack him.
But The helmet protects him from psionic attacks. What telepath can take him on?
*waits for someone to catch on, like he was expecting someone to before*
Psylocke stabs through Juggernaut's helmet with her psychic knife, Emma has breeched the helmet as well. It isn't impregnable.
He is vastly outnumbered, and outgunned. Swatting will only work for so long.
You have used actual events quite often. How am I doing anything different?
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Originally posted by Cosmic Cube*still waiting for someone to catch on*
Psylocke stabs through Juggernaut's helmet with her psychic knife, Emma has breeched the helmet as well. It isn't impregnable.He is vastly outnumbered, and outgunned. Swatting will only work for so long.
You have used actual events quite often. How am I doing anything different?
But you can't use anything that happaens that makes juggernaut look bad! One good swat from Juggernaut could knock most of the X-men out. It could certainly knock out Psylocke and Emma Frost with a single hit!
His helmet is impervious because no one can stay concious when he swats them!
He could just charge through them and knock them out before they realize what's happening!
*Waits for someone to catch on*
Originally posted by brainchild81
You say that he's got nothing on Batman. Does Bats have any non-sneak-attack victories on him? I know he's beaten Bats up before.
If you are talking about the encounter of deathstroke and batman in deathstroke the terminator series. This has already been debated but if you insist. That batman was not out to get deathstroke. And before he realized it batman was sleeping on the floor courtesy of yours truly.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Beat ya.
Originally posted by Creshosk
But The helmet protects him from psionic attacks. What telepath can take him on?
Or any of them if Juggernaut's questionablely durable helmets pop off.
Half the X-men telepaths are phoenixes, the other half break surfer's board, the other half are for T&A but still powerful.
It's pretty obvious that every pro-spidey poster on this thread values stats rather highly, but there is many stats that there precious cards and guides don't show. These are intellectual stats mostly, so it's no wonder why none of the pro-spidey posters value them.
So, someone got pissed because I proved Batman hits harder than spidey using there own logic. Instead of giving any "logical" rebbutle, I'm just trashed instead.
"Spidey punches threw brick walls," "Spidey knocks over steel doors," right... Like It's something that those loveable travelling monks don't do on a regular basis. There's your real world logic, one where Batman hits harder than Spidey.
So which one is it? Do we use your "logic" or not spidey-fans? Not that it matters, Batman wins either way.
Or so it would seem, but no such deeds should I be accused of.
Highest recorded power from a punch over 4,000 psi.
Many martial artist train to break things, conditioning there bodies to handle things that would normally break the man instead.
Muay Thai fighters condition there shins by first kicking bamboo, then move up threw a few grades of harder wood, and usually end in concrete.
Traditional martial artist almost all condition the hands, punching rice, moving up threw sand and gravel, making there hands capable of taking the extreme force of there punches.
Bones are subjected to micro fractures, Calcium heals the bones fortifying it and adding mass.
Many Thai boxers actually have an entirely extra ridge of bone on there shin, have shown to easily break humans (by which I mean break everything that the kick touches) in a single strike.
Batman is superior, can even control chi (which some will say it takes time, but it has never been shown to take any time, and the fact that he can do it but is never shown doing it might lead an intellegent person to beleive he's always doing it or doing it at will) so "logically" batman can produce even more force than said martial artist, and has even proven to do so in comics (sixteen year old bruce cracks 3 foot wide tree wide open, and don't you even dare tell me trees aren't hard, just look at crashed vehicle footage.)
Untrained fighter, can produce only part of his bench in force, unbalanced punch means force will not effectivley travel in one direction, Off balance punch means force will be even less effective. This "logically" explains why "street level" opponents have survived Spidermans punches, even while Spiderman is trying to injure/kill.
So what's not logical?
Merc, you sure dont want to get off the sinking ship, but your points make me think the boat is actually not sinking at times. You are absolutely correct about your knowledge on martial arts. That iron shirt training is no joke, but it is spiderman we are talking about here. Spideys webbing is as strong as steel, so i dont think people should just dis regaurd that. In the end batman is only human fighting a SUPERhuman who can virtually fly with equal intelligence
Spidey's webbing is definitley a good way to victory, I just think the chances of him actually hitting with it are slim.
Batman dodges bullets both in quantity and quality. Multiple enemies with fully automatics all firing simultaneously, Accomplished marksmen, including DC's best, deadshot, and many other projectiles many of which are faster than webbing. Let's not forget Batman's cape and shadow techniques.
Someone argued, well spidey could just shoot a net of webbing. Is a net of webbing not slower than a stream? Let us not forget Batmans top grade athleticism/acrobatics (which are probably on par with DD's.)
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Merc, you sure dont want to get off the sinking ship, but your points make me think the boat is actually not sinking at times.
This is because sometimes I actually try, You should read some of my first post on this thing (when I actually cared to argue intellengently.) Now I've countered every arguement twice and only have inspiration to write a good post every once in a while (this is certainly what you've noticed.)
Originally posted by whobdamandogHow to determine if someone is a FANBOY...
1. "All history must be considered" argument..
Description: To the fanboy..this means that all stories that occured in the character's history should be allowed into the debate. This includes rediculous issues where Captain A is shown to take down a full powered Galactus..or DD is able to gauge how fast a space shuttle is moving in outer space by detecting the pulse rates of the crewmembers. These types of arguments are usually easily rebutted, by another equally rediculous argument..(ie But Spider Man beat Firelord, Spidey was rejected by Death..so he can't die..stuff like that)
2. "These are comic book characters..you can't apply logic!!!" argument
Description: Essentially what that Fanboy is trying to imply is that there should be some form of "suspension of disbelief" when reading comic books. What the Fanboy doesn't realize, however, is that there has to be some form of logic even in comic books, or else there would be no standard for them to debate by.
3. "Stats do not count!!" argument..
Description: This essentially means that the Fanboy doesn't agree with how the comic book companies define a character and their abilities in handbooks/guidebooks/etc. Argument 1 is usually used to support this by demonstrating characters doing things that their stats don't list them being able to do, in 1 or 2 comic books. Usually these examples are taken from "what if" comics, company crossovers, or stories written by John Byrne, J Michael Bendis, or other continuity wrecking comic book writers.
Once you realize and are able to define that these 3 types of arguments are being used by the person you are debating with, you can identify them as a "FANBOY", and as I generally do..leave the thread, and expend your energy/knowledge in other topics/forumns..
Hope this helps you out a bit....
Originally posted by MERCILOUS
It's pretty obvious that every pro-spidey poster on this thread values stats rather highly, but there is many stats that there precious cards and guides don't show. These are intellectual stats mostly, so it's no wonder why none of the pro-spidey posters value them.
So all we have, is stats. All the rest is only assuming and speculating. So again, all we have is stats. And Spider-Mans stats just happen to be much better than those of Batman. Learn to live with it.