WHY the Emperor saves Anakin

Started by jedijunky11387 pages

Yea. Vader was actually instructed by the Emperor to find Luke. Vader was still the top dog in the OT (under Palps that is). I think that to function as a Sith Lord you must have an apprentice to help you do your dirty work. In every film so far Palps has had someone else do his dirty work. It would seem that Palps needs to concentrate his power on staying in control of the galaxy. If Palps had no help he would have to spend a lot of energy on all of the LITTLE THINGS that an apprentice should take care of. This would allow the galaxy to slip through his fingers.

Originally posted by jedijunky1138
Vader was actually instructed by the Emperor to find Luke.

Yeah, BUT the Emperor wanted him dead. "We have a new enemy, Luke Skywalker.........must not become a Jedi".

Then Vader suggested "If he could be turned........."

But yeah, Vader keeps everything in check. Those that say Vader doesn't get his hands dirty are full of crap too, he's the only one that does any real fighting for the Sith cause!

when I said Vader was bored, I was talking about why he jumped in his TIE to help pick off ships. He needed some action. And Vader wanted Luke to turn him so they, together, could overthrow the Emperor. Again, he was doing it for himself. The Empire could function without Vader because there was a huge chain of command. If he wasn't there, the Empire would still sniff out the Rebels and defeat them. Vader was never directly instrumental in defeating the rebels, other than telling Tarkin to place a tracer on the Falcon. He's obsolete because he's not doing anything that's worthy of his skill. He's using about an eigth of his real abilities. That's why he's obsolete. I'm not saying he's useless, I'm saying he's easily replaced. Palpatine seems to pick apprentices for specific reasons, uses them up, and ditches them. Palp only wanted Luke to kill Vader and vice versa. And as far as his role in the Empire, there were obviously plenty of Moff's who were very good commanders who didn't need Vader around.

Well in that sense you can say The Emperor is obsolete. He has all this power, and only uses about an eigth of it. The Emperor isn't always using his powers, so you could say he is wasted too. Sure he is a strategist and so on, but he is no more wasted than Vader is. Both are beyond their goals by Episode 4.

In fact, The Emperor is probably more obsolete. Vader was obviously planning to overthrow the Emperor someday, so his plans were still in motion, there were things he had not yet completed, and he was planning on doing everything he thought of, and was capable of it.

The Emperor, on the other hand, could dissapear - and The Empire would still function - Vader would gladly rise to the occassion.

As if a Moff would take up Emperor command - no way. If The Emperor was destroyed, Vader would be the most powerful being in The Empire - he would easily become leader.

Who, in their right mind would challenge Darth Vader, without the authority of The Emperor? No-one. An Emperor-less Empire would mean Vader would be virtually unchallenged for the position, any challenges would see them force choked.

The Moffs were just kidding themselves, they knew that without the Emperor, there would be nothing to keep Vader under a "glass ceiling" on their level. Without The Emperor, Vader would be king. The only reason why Tarkin had the balls to command Vader was because he was under The Emperors command. As if Vader would take orders from Tarkin without some sort of higher power "holding his leash".
Maybe that's why he wanted to overthrow The Emperor, to finally reach his full potential.
Sure, maybe Vader was renderred obsolete under The Emperors command - but it's obvious Vader was planning to change that, and the mere fact he had "bigger plans" in mind means that he was no where near obsolete after all.

I think Vader gets involved because he feels that he can't trust any of his underling to get the job done.

That's more the stituation. And yes, the Emperor could be considered obsolete except for one major difference between the Emperor and Vader, the Emperor wanted exactly what he got. He wanted to destroy the Jedi and rule the galaxy. He's not wasting his abilities because he's doing exactly what he wanted. Anakin got what he thought he wanted, but it wasn't what he set out to do. And now he's been used and has nothing to do that couldn't be handled by someone else.

Superfly, good point.

i think that it is because of vader's obsolete status that he finally seeks to take full power. before, he was happy to serve, he looked up to his master. palpatine would feed his ego, and give him assignments as he begins doing in ep2. sure vader wants power, but he also wants to be useful. when that usefulness is taken away, what reason does vader have to stay loyal to him?

proof of vader's uselessness? "go out to the command ship and await my orders" vader was just supposed to sit pretty on the executor for the entire end of RotJ. palpatine just sent him away during what was supposed to be one of the empire's finest hour.

the only thing that kept vader's usefullness alive was the prospect of turning luke. and the emporer plans to simply have luke kill vader.

palpatine is replacable as well, because vader could have done the same job, if not better. he is in tune with the force, so he can predict events just as palps can. he is widely known and feared and nobody dares question him, like palps.

in fact, i would even dare say that had luke become a sith, HE would have instantly become obsolete. what purpose would he then have? MAYBE if the rebels had survived the endor battle, he could have helped hunt them down, but palps was posative that the rebels would all be killed. so...what purpose would luke have served? what would his job be? he would just sit around bored with his only amusing thought being killing the emporer.

JESUS WHAT A C**T!

LUCASCHINBEARD who the hell are u?

its mrkphillps,
same childish ranting

somebody slap that guy

The future emperor needed a new apprentice and since he'd been grooming
Anakin for the part for years, he thought- "Why not?".

On the topic of obsolete, when referring to the Emperor and Darth Vader…

The Emperor wanted to RULE. That is the nature of the Dark side, the nature of the SITH. Once Anakin turned he also (needed-wanted) to rule.

The Emperor hated and feared Vader and Vader hated and feared the Emperor. They were both aware of the only TWO rule. That rule made one the Master and one the (forever) apprentice until either was killed or dethroned.

They constantly plotted against one another, their only absolute goal was controlling the galaxy. TO RULE.

Vader had limits which can only be attributed to the rule of TWO...

Vader: You don’t know the power of the Dark side, I MUST obey my Master.

The Emperor also had problems, he needed a apprentice. It was a rule which always put him on guard. He was always second guessing.

Emperor: I wonder if your feelings are clear on this Lord Vader?

Make no mistake; Vader was the Emperor's overseer on all things. He wasn't assigned the Death Star to take orders from the Moff's he was there to make certain they succeeded. The same way the Emperor sent Maul to help the Separatists succeed.
Note, Vader had no military rank but everyone deferred to him.

Additionally, the warning, ("The Emperor is concerned about your lack of process" in completing the 2nd Death Star) implied that he,(The Emperor) watches everything from afar and will send in his right hand (Vader) when he becomes overly concerned. The Emperor could only trust Vader but Vader was the only one he feared.
This was not a Love Love relationship.

The Emperor saved Vader because of the TWO rule.
Vader was weak but still move powerful then anyone he could train. The dark side dictates that the powerful should rule.

so vader passes on messages for the emperor, and stands around to look menacing, because if he's mad, the emperor will be mad. Hmm. Seems like Vader is still just kinda useless. An errand boy rat. That's what that sounds like. Not the power Anakin craved for so long as a Jedi.

Originally posted by km7232

The Emperor saved Vader because of the TWO rule.
Vader was weak but still move powerful then anyone he could train. The dark side dictates that the powerful should rule.

That is my original point and why I posted this thread. The fact that Palps had no other choice but to save Anakin is based on the Rule of Two. Sure he was grooming Anakin from the start to take over the part but when Anakin took his lava bath I think the Emperor would have just let him die if it werent for the fact that he had noone else to choose from.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
so vader passes on messages for the emperor, and stands around to look menacing, because if he's mad, the emperor will be mad. Hmm. Seems like Vader is still just kinda useless. An errand boy rat. That's what that sounds like. Not the power Anakin craved for so long as a Jedi.
That is what an apprentice does. Given the chance I'm sure Vader would have killed Palps and take over as Emperor. That in part tells why Vader wanted to find Luke and turn him. Vader was probably plotting against Palps from the beginning, but with the Rule of Two he needed an apprentice. Luke was HIS only choice.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
so vader passes on messages for the emperor, and stands around to look menacing, because if he's mad, the emperor will be mad. Hmm. Seems like Vader is still just kinda useless. An errand boy rat. That's what that sounds like. Not the power Anakin craved for so long as a Jedi.

Yeah, but, Vader converted to the Sith - he should know there's always two, no more no less. He knew he would have to eventually overthrow the Emperor to progress. That plan was in motion........or was it? That's another question we should ask ourselves, and I think it started another thread somewhere.

But, the moral of the story is that Vader, no matter how strong the dark side made him, wasn't as strong as the bond between father and son, which ultimately wiped out the evil of the Sith in one fell swoop, redeeming Vader, and destroying the Emperor.

So was the ultimate power LOVE?

Isn't that something the Jedi and the Sith both kinda overlooked?

That's why Anakin is The Chosen One. He was destined to break the Jedi guidelines and feel love, to have an offspring, and only that bond between father and son would be the strength to defeat the Sith in the end.

It's like those stories you hear of babies trapped in cars, and the mother being able to somehow lift a car with impossible strangth, but it happens because of the emotion. The Jedi religion was never an advocate of such compassionate strength, and so was doomed to fight. Too peaceful, too passive, you need to fight fire with fire, you need to destroy in order to create - that's why Anakin was born.
Anakin DID defeat The Sith. Vader was required in order for his emotion to run free, to provide the power he needed to bring that balance.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I probably am) but...

...I always thought that the prophecy for the chosen one to bring balance to the force would mean that a very very strong sith would come along.

Because surely the Jedi have had it easy for a really long time (this is illustrated in what Yoda and Windu discuss in AOTC concerning telling the senate about their gradually weakening control of the force), so therefore the 'balance' has been in their favour for a really long time, no?

So presumably to bring balance to the force would be to give both Sith and Jedi an equal chance at survival. I don't think giving the Jedi the strongest force user ever would be very fair on the Sith. After all the Sith are just another 'religion' trying to get along in the world.

Feel free to berate me if this is just a bunch of misguided ramblings...

good point superfly, i think 'love conquers all' is the moral of the story (rotj that is). before vader is redeemed, he plans on corrupting his son and turning him to the darkside, he plans on killing him if he cant get him to turn, and up till that final moment he was pretty much evil...or was he?

the bottom line is that vader could not kill luke. as much as he talked of "he will join us or die" and "if you will not fight, then you will meet your destiny", vader could not do it. the very fact that he didnt kil luke at bespin shows that vader had good in him, as luke pointed out.

only in the end did he turn, when vader had but 2 choices: 1-let your son be killed 2-be redeemed and save your son. but that was the only moment where he did not have the option of keeping his power, he was not able to lie to himself and say "i'm doing it for the good of the empire"

but was a father's attachment to his son enough to kill the sith? what of a son's attachment to his father?

if luke was raised in typical jedi fashion, and never given a loving family, but instead spent his whole life being trained, would he have reached out to vader? would he feel the good in vader? would he make any connection at all?

luke was given a very similar childhood as anakin. he lived on tatooine, an isolated planet where all he had was his family, his friends, and his thoughts to keep him company. he was raised by loving parents who really didnt want him to go off and be a jedi (shmi allowed anakin to chose, but you can tell she didnt want him to be in a dangerous profession) most importantly, luke learned the pain of losing his family in a tragedy, as anakin did.

so, i think the big question is: why was luke alowed to be raised as a commoner? why was he not taken to dagoba to be trained as a jedi by yoda? why was owen and beru given custody of luke, so he could be raised in the very place his grandmother was buried?

were ben and yoda leaving a certain option for the future open?

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong (and I probably am) but...

Originally posted by unknown hero

So presumably to bring balance to the force would be to give both Sith and Jedi an equal chance at survival. I don't think giving the Jedi the strongest force user ever would be very fair on the Sith. After all the Sith are just another 'religion' trying to get along in the world.

Feel free to berate me if this is just a bunch of misguided ramblings...

the nature of the sith is to consume everything within its grasp, and control the galaxy, extinguishing all that is good.

the jedi are simply keepers of the piece, but they do not have the power to extinguish evil. there is still evil regardless of whether or not the sith exists, so there is a balance between good and evil.

with the sith, there is only evil

so to have the sith survive would not be balance. its about good and evil, not two religions