Batman vs....waite for it..........

Originally posted by Never
To quote someone else: "That's absurd." Certainly entitled to your opinion regarding IQ tests, as mistaken as it might be.

"Test someone's smartness?" What? Hmm...was Gaugin "smart?" Percy Bysse Shelley? William Shakespeare? Dante? Montaigne? Voltaire? Miles Davis? Bobby Fisher? Charles Mingus, John Coletrane, Bill Gates?

At any rate, the 220 IQ rating is indicative of Batman's genius level IQ (anyone care to dispute THAT?); and if you are questioning Batman's IQ, you have a LOT of reading to do.

Only said that IQ isn't everything, to say the least. I said it before and I'll say it again : those IQ tests only measure a small part of somebodies potential. Nothing more.

Originally posted by who?-kid
You're forgetting George Bush, Pamela Anderson and Al Bundy.

I think it's you who needs to read a bit more : read the posts for example. Did I question Batman's intelligence ? Hm ? Did I question his high IQ ? Didn't think so.

Only said that IQ isn't everything, to say the least. I said it before and I'll say it again : those IQ tests only measure a small part of somebodies potential. Nothing more.

1. Did I say, quote, that you questioned his IQ, since we are challenging reading comprehension? Err NO. Notice the big fat word "IF" in the sentence "IF you are challenging his IQ?" Your phrasing was rather dubious; it was difficult to tell whether or not you were dismissing it as trivial considering you dismissed ALL IQ ratings as trivial.

2. Um, IQ tests do not measure ANY part of someone's potential. They are used to measure one's GENERAL cognitive abilities relative to one's AGE group. Even so, it is a very GENERAL indicator considering opinions of what one's general knowledge at a particular age vary.

3. Not surprising that you missed the point in my naming Mingus, Gaugin, et al. Mathematical/scientific genius is NOT the only type of genius that exists. Musical, artistic, interpersonal, linguistic - these are ALL examples. Society (in America, anyway), for whatever reason, gives one type much more weight than the other.

4. Who EVER said that "IQ is everything?" If you have zero work ethic, zero resourcefulness, zero drive, zero ambition, zero initiative - who CARES how smart you are? Point is that Batman is brilliant ALL the way around -- mathematical, scientific, tactical, psychological, hence them deciding to give him such a profoundly high IQ.

Originally posted by Never
1. Did I say, quote, that you questioned his IQ, since we are challenging reading comprehension? Err NO. Notice the big fat word "IF" in the sentence "IF you are challenging his IQ?" Your phrasing was rather dubious; it was difficult to tell whether or not you were dismissing it as trivial considering you dismissed ALL IQ ratings as trivial.

2. Um, IQ tests do [B]not measure ANY part of someone's potential. They are used to measure one's GENERAL cognitive abilities relative to one's AGE group. Even so, it is a very GENERAL indicator considering opinions of what one's general knowledge at a particular age vary.

3. Not surprising that you missed the point in my naming Mingus, Gaugin, et al. Mathematical/scientific genius is NOT the only type of genius that exists. Musical, artistic, interpersonal, linguistic - these are ALL examples. Society (in America, anyway), for whatever reason, gives one type much more weight than the other.

4. Who EVER said that "IQ is everything?" If you have zero work ethic, zero resourcefulness, zero drive, zero ambition, zero initiative - who CARES how smart you are? Point is that Batman is brilliant ALL the way around -- mathematical, scientific, tactical, psychological, hence them deciding to give him such a profoundly high IQ. [/B]

You said it yourself :Even so, it is a very GENERAL indicator considering opinions of what one's general knowledge at a particular age vary. I said, in other words, roughly the same thing. So, if I'm right, we agree that IQ is a vague concept. Right ? Right !

And 5 seconds later, you're rambling on about the high IQ of Batman because he knows sooo much about mathematical stuff, scientific, tactical, psychological...

Newsflash : most of these things aren't even a part of a (standard) IQ-test, so how can the writers decide to give Batman a high IQ because he's for example a good psychologist (that's EQ by the way, Emotional Intelligence, it has nothing to do with IQ so it doesn't count) ?

Most IQ-tests are pretty short, so only a very limited part of your knowledge can be tested. Fact. It's not because you're a good tactician that you have a high IQ. And before you start saying :"But... but Batman is good at everything !!" => that only proves that Batman is not human (and an exaggerated character), because every human, even the smartest of the smart, has lots of fields where he or she don't know jack sh*t about.

I know Batman is freaking smart (duh), but I know this because I've seen him in action, not because somebody tells me he has an high IQ.

You want a true genius ? Go visit Reed Richards.

Originally posted by Never
DCU? Frank Castle? Unless I am mistaken (and I doubt it), Frank Castle is The Punisher? Not a DCU character.

im talking about comics in general, i mean this topic was normally about batman vs. steven hawkings -_-

Originally posted by who?-kid
Primo : says who ? Einstein was a pretty smart guy all around.

Secundo : even if he came out retarded, so what ? That only shows (like I said) how vague those tests are.

Having a high IQ doesn't mean much. In fact, it means very little.

i wasnt going against you, im agreeing that those IQ tests are stupid

Originally posted by Havoc470
i wasnt going against you, im agreeing that those IQ tests are stupid

Originally posted by who?-kid
I said, in other words, roughly the same thing. So, if I'm right, we agree that IQ is a vague concept. Right ? Right !

No you did not. You said, quote:

those IQ tests only measure a small part of somebodies potential. Nothing more.

Nothing about cognition, retaining information, nothing. Ohhhhhhh. You IMPLIED that, right? Right.

Newsflash : most of these things aren't even a part of a (standard) IQ-test, so how can the writers decide to give Batman a high IQ because he's for example a good psychologist (that's EQ by the way, Emotional Intelligence, it has nothing to do with IQ so it doesn't count) ?

LoL. Where did I say that they gave Batman a high IQ "because he's a good psychologist?" I said that, QUOTE:

Batman is brilliant ALL the way around -- mathematical, scientific, tactical, psychological,

When will you quote me ACCURATELY? Did I SAY that those were part of a "regular IQ test" - psychology, for example? Noooooooo, I said that different IQ types are MEASURED - for example, QUOTE:

Mathematical/scientific genius is NOT the only type of genius that exists. Musical, artistic, interpersonal, linguistic - these are ALL examples.

Most IQ-tests are pretty short, so only a very limited part of your knowledge can be tested.

Where did I dispute this? Did I say that they are absolute? No, I said that IQ tests are, QUOTE:

They are used to measure one's GENERAL cognitive abilities relative to one's AGE group.

GENERAL.

Fact. It's not because you're a good tactician that you have a high IQ. And before you start saying :"But... but Batman is good at everything !!" => that only proves that Batman is not human (and an exaggerated character), because every human, even the smartest of the smart, has lots of fields where he or she don't know jack sh*t about.

Um, WRONG. Batman is human. Homo sapiens. Homo superior (as Magneto references them) does not exist in the DC Universe. He is not a kryptonian, daxamite, anything - he is HUMAN in the DC Universe, regardless of your opinion of him.

Heh, that was Frank Miller's ENTIRE point in "Dark Knight Returns" and "Dark Knight Strikes Back" - or did you NOT read them? That he was HUMAN (hence him getting his @ss handed to him by the mutant in that first fight); that he was OLDER (hence him having to scale that building much slower than usual); that he was SLOWER. The challenge is to use his BRAIN to overcome his HUMAN, physical limitations. He's not Deathstroke who is able to track Flash visually and shoot him in the buttock. HELLO?

"An important part of the mythos is that Batman, unlike Superman for example, does not possess any superhuman abilities. >>>>>>>>>>>>>He is a normal human<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< that has elevated himself to near-superhuman status through discipline and training."

http://www.campusprogram.com/reference/en/wikipedia/b/ba/batman_1.html

Notice the arrows for emphasis? HE IS A NORMAL HUMAN.

You want a true genius ? Go visit Reed Richards.

More dubious phrasing. "True genius?" What the hell is that? Tony Starks is a "true genius." Victor Von Doom is a "true genius." I doubt if you have read Grant Morrison's relaunch of JLA wherein Batman's genius is PLAINLY stated, hence all of his naysayers (hmm..."haters?"😉 referencing him as "BatGod."

Regardless, Batman's IQ is 220, he possesses a genius-level intellect (DETECTIVE genius, master of forensic evidence), and he is HUMAN.

Too easy to counter your mistakes, but I don't have enough time, so I will (for the moment) only say this

Heh, that was Frank Miller's ENTIRE point in "Dark Knight Returns" and "Dark Knight Strikes Back" - or did you NOT read them? That he was HUMAN (hence him getting his @ss handed to him by the mutant in that first fight)

Heh, nice try, but did YOU not read them ? That big ugly dude with sharp teeth was no mutant, just the leader of a gang. What a mistake to make 😉.

First time Batman lost, second time he won.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Too easy to counter your mistakes, but I don't have enough time, so I will (for the moment) only say this

Heh, nice try, but did YOU not read them ? That big ugly dude with sharp teeth was no mutant, just the leader of a gang. What a mistake to make 😉.

First time Batman lost, second time he won.

Typical copout considering I slice, dice, and butter your @ss thrice in every "debate" we engage in.

Of COURSE I read it. Talk about "too easy." For your FURTHER edification:

"Bruce Wayne appears to be killed in a car race, only to have survived. It is the tenth anniversary of the last sighting of Batman - and according to a poll, most teenagers consider him to be a myth. James Gordon is still the Commissioner of Police, although a new gang, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the Mutants, have issued a death threat against him."

Yes, he was a MUTANT. The name of the GANG was THE MUTANTS. You always misread my posts and go skipping off all giddy, thinking that you have issued a scintillating rebuttal.

Get real. Haha, does being a CRIP gang member mean that you are actually a CRIPPLE?

Originally posted by Never
Typical copout considering I slice, dice, and butter your @ss thrice in every "debate" we engage in.

You don't really slice, dice, or rub asses with butter really. You just say something and refuse to accept things from the outside.

Yeah...most comic book fans don't want to accept the fact that batman is only human and still stands with those superpowered freaks...they find it insulting probably that a human can equal their oh-so-great superhumans!

OR

They simply don't have faith in us Homosapieans.

Yeah, he's human. But that links him to some kind of "realistic" level that he's crossed, spit on, then destroyed with prep time. For all his knowledge and abilities, he might as well be Martian Manhunter jr.

i dont accept the fact that batman is human, i mean in his own comics fighting joker and all those characters are fine, but when they start having him fighting darkseid (jeph loeb and michael turners current batman/superman issue)and getting eaten by a dragon and surviving......that's just a little crazy, him being in similar situations have happened quite a bit too

but nothings wrong with batman not being human, i dont see him as a human i still see him as a cool character...just because i dont believe he's a human doesnt mean i dont have much faith in homosapiens, its just what you said it is A COMIC BOOK, and basing faith in homosapiens on a comic book is a little too much imo

Originally posted by Never
Tell the writer who STATED that it is 220 that it is absurd. LoL @ "absurd" when Goethe's IQ was estimated to be 210.

You first say that it is absurb. You then say "well, if it IS 220, then he doesn't know the quotient levels." Did you ever consider that YOU are not aware of what HE means when he says that Batman has an IQ of 220? Did he state that Batman has an IQ of 220 on EARTH? How many "real time" human beings can design kryptonite gauntlets? Precisely, so who cares about real world "quotient levels?" I guess whomever says Flash runs at the speed of light has no "understanding" of Einstein's Theory of Relativity?

Please research information before you consider attempting to refute it. For more "absurb" IQ levels, here you are:

Batman (name unrevealed): Dynamic darknight defender of Pluto, the terrifying Asylum Planet — one half of the System's Finest Duo! The Cloaked Crusader, the Night's Greatest Detective, his physical prowess is unequaled, his IQ: 1045.<---------------------- 1ST APP: DC One Million #1. ORIGIN: Batman: Shadow Of The Bat #1,000,000 (Nov 1998)

There is your issue number. Do consider verifying it for yourself...and I guess Grant Morrison (who is responsible for the creation of Batman 1M) has no understanding of what "quotient levels mean."

Sport, I know a great deal more about IQs than you, I assure you. It is very difficult to determine the IQs of geniuses in the past, so that statement is as accurate as whatever website you got it from or whatever high school teacher informed you about it. I don't know what the hell you're talking about regarding the non-Earth Batman, but I'm talking about Batman, the Batman. Bruce Wayne. Again, he's a comic book character, so the writers can assign whatever number they want to him, but that doesn't mean they know how to back it up. There are plenty of brilliant heroes whose IQ's have never been revealed. Why? Because the writers have their OWN IQ's high enough to clue them in to how ridiculous that would be; you have to back up the claim you make for your characters. As for real-world quotients, I'm not the one who brought them up, I'm just saying Batman has never proven his intellect to be on the level of such scientists as Stephen Hawking. This was back when someone came up with a Batman vs. Stephen Hawking fight.

Originally posted by Punkyhermy
Yeah...most comic book fans don't want to accept the fact that batman is only human and still stands with those superpowered freaks...they find it insulting probably that a human can equal their oh-so-great superhumans!

OR

They simply don't have faith in us Homosapieans.

He stands with low-level superpowered 'freaks.' I understand the fanboy crap, or fangirl. I happen to be that way with Thor and a few others, but if you actually think Batman can go toe-to-toe with Superman and others, you're out of your mind. Perhaps the reason many don't have faith in homo sapiens is due to the fact that we have known homo sapiens all our lives and have seen what little they are capable of doing against gods.

keep it cool, people

You always yell at me, but I swear I don't start it. If someone attacks me, I have no choice but to tear them apart. Unless you do it first 🙂

Originally posted by Punkyhermy
[B]Yeah...most comic book fans don't want to accept the fact that batman is only human and still stands with those superpowered freaks...they find it insulting probably that a human can equal their oh-so-great superhumans!

i think comic book fans accept the fact that batman is a comic book character, and it doesnt matter whether they think he's human or he isnt, either way his comics are being read and life goes on

Typical copout considering I slice, dice, and butter your @ss thrice in every "debate" we engage in.

Yes, he was a MUTANT. The name of the GANG was THE MUTANTS. You always misread my posts and go skipping off all giddy, thinking that you have issued a scintillating rebuttal.

Seriously now: you clearly don't care much for the use of capital letters. You wrote :”blah blah human Batman blah blah still defeating the mutant using his brains” => you can argue what you want, but this gives people who do NOT know the story the false impression that Batman was actually fighting a mutant, and that he only defeated this mutant because he used his brains.

That's why I said - very politely - that he was no mutant.

This is what you should have written : Batman was fighting the leader of a murderous gang called the Mutants. This leader was no real mutant, only a big and very tough guy. Batman fought him twice, and lost the first battle because he was fighting without thinking. The second time, he won because he used his brains and of course also his fists. There, you see ? It’s not so hard.

So he was not fighting the mutant. (I maybe could have accepted the Mutant with a capital M). Think before you write something down and after you have written it, check your facts again. And your capital letters.

More dubious phrasing.

"True genius?" What the hell is that?

HE IS A NORMAL HUMAN.

Not to mention the fact he runs a very large enterprise, hangs out with his buddies of the JLA, mostly works at night, beats up every villain that crosses his path, is the best detective of his time, has mastered dozens of martial arts, is a scientific genius, still jumps like absolutely nothing has happened despite the bullets and the flesh wounds he took, hits the streets from time to time as Matches Malone... Oh yeah, he has to be Bruce Wayne also from time to time, has to invent stuff, develop kryptonite rings and so on and so on and so on.

Homo sapiens ? Sure. Homo exaggeratus ? Definitely.

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
Sport, I know a great deal more about IQs than you, I assure you.

You will not be the first to stick his foot in his mouth.

It is very difficult to determine the IQs of geniuses in the past, so that statement is as accurate as whatever website you got it from or whatever high school teacher informed you about it.

No KIDDING, hence my saying that Goethe's IQ was ESTIMATED (hello..."estimated?"😉 to be 210.

Again, he's a comic book character, so the writers can assign whatever number they want to him, but that doesn't mean they know how to back it up.

NO KIDDING, and they do not NEED to "back it up," now DO they? He's a FICTIONAL genius whose high IQ they attempt to validate via his myriad shrewd business moves, inventions, instances of tactical brilliance, and detective work. Does it HAVE to be "accurate" in the "REAL WORLD?" No, it only has to be RELATIVELY accurate in the COMIC BOOK world, so how can YOU say that it is "absurd" when you have absolute zero clue what they are basing it on? Did they say that he is roughly as smart as "insert x real world individual here?" NO.

There are plenty of brilliant heroes whose IQ's have never been revealed.

So?

Why? Because the writers have their OWN IQ's high enough to clue them in to how ridiculous that would be; you have to back up the claim you make for your characters.

Conjecture. Is that why Grant Morrison determined that Batman 1M's IQ is 1040?

As for real-world quotients, I'm not the one who brought them up, I'm just saying Batman has never proven his intellect to be on the level of such scientists as Stephen Hawking.

Oh YES he has. Read more Batman, respond less in this thread. Read Morrison's interpretation of the Batman character, first and foremost.