Originally posted by IceWithin
interesting theory but unlikely...
I dunno...a gay/lesbian person should debate that with u 😬
but I still dont think u can choose who ure attracted to 😬
There will be no debate from this gay/lesbian person. I have debated and argued and yelled and pleaded and made clear my points over and over again in this 108 plus page thread. If there are people who are truely interested in going over this topic, then they can start at page 1 and read the arguments. In this thread you will find opinions, experiences, and scientific evidence provided by numerous gay and stright people.
Suffice it to say, that it has nothing to do with my environment or the way I was raised. I have known I was gay since I was three years old. Realized I was different. I was raised in a very typical environment. My father was born in 1939, he drag raced, worked on cars, took me to see The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi and tried to get me to play sports.(He was a soccer fanatic) I went to catholic school my entire life. I watched the Dukes of Hazzard, He-Man and GI Joe when I was a kid. I played with legos, Star Wars, He-Man and GI JOE as well as matchbox cars. My mother is a lovely woman, who resented the relationship I had with my father, and told him he was turning me into a bully. I was a guys guy when I was a kid. A grease monkey in my fathers garage.
I started sleeping with girls when I was 13 in an effort to persuade myself that these feelings I had always felt were simply inexperience or lack of trying. I continued to sleep with girls through out high school. There was an image to maintain, even though I had accepted the truth about myself long before. When I was 21, I decided that the only way I was ever going to be happy with myself was to get away from the people that I assumed would have a problem with me being myself and being gay. I dropped out of college and started working for my grandfathers company. I moved to New York City and lived outside the watchful eye of everyone I knew(or, who knew me) When I came out, after living a totally free life in NYC, not one person had a problem with it. Except my grandfather, who fired me under the pretense that other employees were jealous of my special treatment and that I hadn't finished college. This all coincided with coming out. Go figure. From that point on, I decided that I had lived almost 22 years worried about what other people thought. For some reason, I feel the need to explain why I'm gay to people on this board. People I will never meet. In the meantime, I go through my life everyday not doing so in the real world. I don't hide it, it isn't obvious, but I never explain myself. People always seem to figure it out eventually, and I make no apologies for it when they do. And I will no longer do it here.
Consider that tidbit my last contribution to this thread. I am through justifying my existence to people. I no longer care if others agree with me in my belief that it is genetic. Like I said, if you have some true interest to learn more and maybe change your mind, there's over a hundred pages in this thread. Expand your mind all you want. As far as I am concerned, the debate is over for me.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
There will be no debate from this gay/lesbian person. I have debated and argued and yelled and pleaded and made clear my points over and over again in this 108 plus page thread. If there are people who are truely interested in going over this topic, then they can start at page 1 and read the arguments. In this thread you will find opinions, experiences, and scientific evidence provided by numerous gay and stright people.Suffice it to say, that it has nothing to do with my environment or the way I was raised. I have known I was gay since I was three years old. Realized I was different. I was raised in a very typical environment. My father was born in 1939, he drag raced, worked on cars, took me to see The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi and tried to get me to play sports.(He was a soccer fanatic) I went to catholic school my entire life. I watched the Dukes of Hazzard, He-Man and GI Joe when I was a kid. I played with legos, Star Wars, He-Man and GI JOE as well as matchbox cars. My mother is a lovely woman, who resented the relationship I had with my father, and told him he was turning me into a bully. I was a guys guy when I was a kid. A grease monkey in my fathers garage.
I started sleeping with girls when I was 13 in an effort to persuade myself that these feelings I had always felt were simply inexperience or lack of trying. I continued to sleep with girls through out high school. There was an image to maintain, even though I had accepted the truth about myself long before. When I was 21, I decided that the only way I was ever going to be happy with myself was to get away from the people that I assumed would have a problem with me being myself and being gay. I dropped out of college and started working for my grandfathers company. I moved to New York City and lived outside the watchful eye of everyone I knew(or, who knew me) When I came out, after living a totally free life in NYC, not one person had a problem with it. Except my grandfather, who fired me under the pretense that other employees were jealous of my special treatment and that I hadn't finished college. This all coincided with coming out. Go figure. From that point on, I decided that I had lived almost 22 years worried about what other people thought. For some reason, I feel the need to explain why I'm gay to people on this board. People I will never meet. In the meantime, I go through my life everyday not doing so in the real world. I don't hide it, it isn't obvious, but I never explain myself. People always seem to figure it out eventually, and I make no apologies for it when they do. And I will no longer do it here.
Consider that tidbit my last contribution to this thread. I am through justifying my existence to people. I no longer care if others agree with me in my belief that it is genetic. Like I said, if you have some true interest to learn more and maybe change your mind, there's over a hundred pages in this thread. Expand your mind all you want. As far as I am concerned, the debate is over for me.
wow that's a great post...too bad one of the few smart ppl who post relevant things in this thread isnt gonna post here anymore though...
Being gay is a choice as much as Down Syndrome is a f*cking choice.
But hey, the civilized world can have their accepted gay communities and accepting societies. We in 'Murica live in our own little theocratic box, 'cuz we stand fer freedum!
Did I ever say how much I intensely loathe the holy roller fundamentalist crowd? I really wish they'd all get raptured and get the hell off this planet. Either that or just turn into one big suicide cult and drink their poison kool-aid. Either way, they'd be gone and US society can move along as usual.
....and desperately try to catch up with the rest of the world.
To the fundies: Thanks a lot, assholes. You douchebags made us the laughingstock of the world.
Originally posted by BullitNutz
We in 'Murica live in our own little theocratic box, 'cuz we stand fer freedum!
I truly believe that summed up America.
The land of the brave and the land of the free - yet everyones petrified and paranoid and quarter of world's prison population is imprisoned in America alone...oh yes, land of the brave and free, isn't it just?
Originally posted by BullitNutz
Being gay is a choice as much as Down Syndrome is a f*cking choice.But hey, the civilized world can have their accepted gay communities and accepting societies. We in 'Murica live in our own little theocratic box, 'cuz we stand fer freedum!
Did I ever say how much I intensely loathe the holy roller fundamentalist crowd? I really wish they'd all get raptured and get the hell off this planet. Either that or just turn into one big suicide cult and drink their poison kool-aid. Either way, they'd be gone and US society can move along as usual.
....and desperately try to catch up with the rest of the world.
To the fundies: Thanks a lot, assholes. You douchebags made us the laughingstock of the world.
You can believe what you want..but the fact of the matter is their is no proof of Homosexuality being a genetic defect..most of the what has been proven leads to sexual orientation being a product of a multitude of environmental/socieological factors, which as I stated before...don't take away from an individual being able to "choose" the way they want to live.
The fact of the matter is that everyone should have a "choice" to do what they want in "life", as long as it doesn't violate others rights, or laws established by society. Laws are based on morality of the people who establish them. Does imposing our "private" lifestyles on others violate these laws? I believe it does..however..that's up for the legal system to decide.
As far as your loathing of Holy Rollers..that's fine, you have the choice to act and feel anyway you like. However, when you force your opinions on others and proclaim them to be "factual"..your being just as ignorant and narrow minded as those you deem to be "fundies."
Originally posted by sailormoon
I would probably say chosen but I'm not sure. 'Cause this singer was straight, but then he got raped by a man and switched sides.
Its not a choice...
People don't choose things like that, it causes too much trouble for them, to much pain and fear of telling when you haven't even really told yet. It hardly matters to them that others have said it and almost everybody is perfectly fine with it. It really doesn't matter, i found out today that a guy in my class was gay. Now i hate this guy, okay hate maybe a bit of a strong word i heavily dislike him and don't respect him the least bit. He's an idiot, but when he told everybody in front of the class. When he told 23 students plus two teachers that he was gay he got my respect, its not easy to make a choice like that.
And normally I'm one of the first people to annoy this guy when i see an opportunity but when somebody else said something stupid i lashed out at the guy because he is a retard.
Now when my vacation is over i will just heavily dislike him again and talk to shit to him again. But saying something like that in front of a large group of people who you are going to spend at least two others years with has got to be very hard. Like I already said in this thread a friend of mine is a lesbian, and if you saw the problems she had saying what she did you can not possibly believe it is a choice. Being gay has absolutely nothing to do with making a choice. Well except for which guy/girl you sleep with. But if anybody here and you ask 99% of the gay people this had the choice if they wanted to be gay or not at the time they had to tell other people they will all say i wish i was straight. That friend of mine, she was in love with another girl didn't know if she was gay too or not. When she finally told her parents she decided to tell her. I have never ever seen anybody that nervous.
I talked to her again later that night, found out the other girl wasn't gay but she was still relieved and happy. Telling other people like that apparently relieves a great burden from your heart. Something that would not be there if you choose to be gay. Its like saying you choose your parents nobody would live in a third world country with shitty abusive parents with no money and no food. Its stupid ignorant and based on nothing more then personal believes without evidence, whether scientific, historical or philosophical.
Sorry people but saying being gay is a choice is retarded, i mean no offense to anybody here. I really don't but if you say something like that you should really have your head examined and think of the trouble those people are going threw.
Keep in mind this was in the Netherlands, where there is a very open culture about gays and things like that. Now imagine what a hard time you would have in a country where being gay is looked down upon? Consider all of that and then tell me its a choice, if anybody still thinks that then you really have no knowledge of human beings.
Originally posted by Fishy
Its not a choice...People don't choose things like that, it causes too much trouble for them, to much pain and fear of telling when you haven't even really told yet. It hardly matters to them that others have said it and almost everybody is perfectly fine with it. It really doesn't matter, i found out today that a guy in my class was gay. Now i hate this guy, okay hate maybe a bit of a strong word i heavily dislike him and don't respect him the least bit. He's an idiot, but when he told everybody in front of the class. When he told 23 students plus two teachers that he was gay he got my respect, its not easy to make a choice like that.
And normally I'm one of the first people to annoy this guy when i see an opportunity but when somebody else said something stupid i lashed out at the guy because he is a retard.
Now when my vacation is over i will just heavily dislike him again and talk to shit to him again. But saying something like that in front of a large group of people who you are going to spend at least two others years with has got to be very hard. Like I already said in this thread a friend of mine is a lesbian, and if you saw the problems she had saying what she did you can not possibly believe it is a choice. Being gay has absolutely nothing to do with making a choice. Well except for which guy/girl you sleep with. But if anybody here and you ask 99% of the gay people this had the choice if they wanted to be gay or not at the time they had to tell other people they will all say i wish i was straight. That friend of mine, she was in love with another girl didn't know if she was gay too or not. When she finally told her parents she decided to tell her. I have never ever seen anybody that nervous.
I talked to her again later that night, found out the other girl wasn't gay but she was still relieved and happy. Telling other people like that apparently relieves a great burden from your heart. Something that would not be there if you choose to be gay. Its like saying you choose your parents nobody would live in a third world country with shitty abusive parents with no money and no food. Its stupid ignorant and based on nothing more then personal believes without evidence, whether scientific, historical or philosophical.
Sorry people but saying being gay is a choice is retarded, i mean no offense to anybody here. I really don't but if you say something like that you should really have your head examined and think of the trouble those people are going threw.
Keep in mind this was in the Netherlands, where there is a very open culture about gays and things like that. Now imagine what a hard time you would have in a country where being gay is looked down upon? Consider all of that and then tell me its a choice, if anybody still thinks that then you really have no knowledge of human beings.
Well..its good to see you at least respect others opinions enough not to condemn them..lol..seriously though. You've essentially proven that your just as obstinate as those who represent the other extreme of this argument.
Anyway. In response to your "opinion", I will go ahead and reitterate what was already written in my previous post.
..the fact of the matter is their is no proof of Homosexuality being a genetic defect..most of the what has been proven leads to sexual orientation being a product of a multitude of environmental/sociological factors, which as I stated before...don't take away from an individual being able to "choose" the way they want to live.
Now that we've gotten that all cleared up..let's move on..
People make choices to live difficult lifestyles all the time. Polygamists make the "choice" to marry multiple people, regardless of the scorn and ridicule this type of lifestyle brings from mainstream society.
Street Cops in South Central LA, "choose" a profession which consistantly puts their life on the line day after day.
Life is about "choices"...some that have good outcomes..some that have bad outcomes. However regardless of what "choice" an individual makes for their life, they need to recognize that they themselves are responsable for the outcomes that those choices bring.
Well..its good to see you at least respect others opinions enough not to condemn them..lol..seriously though. You've essentially proven that your just as obstinate as those who represent the other extreme of this argument.Anyway. In response to your "opinion", I will go ahead and reitterate what was already written in my previous post.
I have no problems with the believes of other people, but to say its a choice or something against nature is both foolish and wrong. It has been proven in a few study's amongst other from a very famous French biologist who spend over 10 years researching it. He said homosexuality is about as much as a choice as if you want to be a man and a woman. You can force yourself to be one, but you will never really be one.
Its something that just happens. Ask any gay person you know and they will say the same thing.
And no it has nothing to do with the environment you grow up in. Even people that grow up in places where they hate gays can still be gay. Besides how would that explain homosexual animals?
Originally posted by Mythomg I had that same thought with one of my friends on msn!! 😱
I have a friend who is gay and this is what he thought.It is neither "chosen" nor genetic. He believes (along with me), that you develop your sexual orientation based on your environment. It is the way you are treated as you grow up that influences how you become gay. The only thing that is really clear, is that you can't choose what you are. A gay person can't just go, "This is frustrating, I'm not going to be gay anymore."
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Well..its good to see you at least respect others opinions enough not to condemn them..lol..seriously though. You've essentially proven that your just as obstinate as those who represent the other extreme of this argument.Anyway. In response to your "opinion", I will go ahead and reitterate what was already written in my previous post.
Now that we've gotten that all cleared up..let's move on..
People make choices to live difficult lifestyles all the time. Polygamists make the "choice" to marry multiple people, regardless of the scorn and ridicule this type of lifestyle brings from mainstream society.
Street Cops in South Central LA, "choose" a profession which consistantly puts their life on the line day after day.Life is about "choices"...some that have good outcomes..some that have bad outcomes. However regardless of what "choice" an individual makes for their life, they need to recognize that they themselves are responsable for the outcomes that those choices bring.
ok, then do u "choose" who u love, do u choose who u are attracted to???
attraction is totally genetic... u cant FORCE ureself to be attrated to men or women 😬 it's simply genetic... just like u cant choose whether u like vegetables or not... it's all in ure genes...