Homosexuality: Chosen or Genetic?

Started by Draco69324 pages
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Anyway..I think you've missed the whole ball on the "procreation" argument. You can stick tons of things up the vagina, but guess what..if those things don't allow for the possibility of procreation..then the act of vaginal intercourse being performed is not a "natural one"...duhh...🙄

Any type of sexual behavior that does allow the possibility of a child is "biologically unnatural" and thus homosexual? This does not make a heap of sense. Millions of people in the world use condoms or contraceptives. Many of them nullify any chance for the possibility of a child. Many elderly people have sex even though their reproductive systems are long since dead. Many heterosexual people choose to have sex anally or orally. Which also nullifies any chance of a child. A woman whose had her ovaries tied or a man whose had a vasectomy. If a man masturbates a woman or vice versa. If what you say is true, that persons who participate in "biologically unnatural" sexual behavior is homosexual than the homosexual population should skyrocket.

It simply doesn't make sense. Most people do not participate in by your definition strictly vaginal intercourse with the possibility of procreation exclusively or at all. A gay man in a faux marriage who has sex with a woman vaginally is no longer a homosexual? A lesbian in a faux who has sex with a man vaginally is no longer a homosexual? A heterosexual man who has anal sex with a man in prison is no longer a heterosexual? A female who experiments with her best friend vaginally is a lesbian? If sexual behavior is what truly defines sexual orientation, than most people who have experienced both spectrum of sexual behavior is not homosexual nor heterosexual but bisexual. A married gay man who regularly has sex with his wife to keep himself in the closet but goes to gay clubs to have sex with men is not a homosexual by your definition. He must be...bisexual maybe? A straight female porn star who participates in a great range of "biologically unnatural" sexual behavior is not a heterosexual but a homosexual...because she participates and chooses to do "biologically unnatural" sexual behavior? There are so many examples that just don't add up to your theory.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Yeah and according to wiki..that "many" wouldn't include 80% percent of the homosexual population...🙄

80% of the male populations. 50% lesbian + 20% gays = 70%. So yeah, most don't. By this is just going on your source. And according to your definition apparently anyone who uses birth control or oral sex must also be homosexual too...

Originally posted by whobdamandog
you just get more absurd with these posts Draco..the key word in the sentence above is "sexual"...refer back to the definition of "sexual" above to see how illogical your opinion is.

You cannot be attracted sexual behavior. It is an act. It fully requires on WHOM is doing the said sexual behavior. Many homosexual men get off on straight men having sex with women vaginally. Many heterosexual men get off on having anal sex with their wives. It depends on the whom. Would you be "attracted' to the sexual behavior of Michael Jackson having sex with Joan Rivers. You're straight. You're "attracted" to vaginal intercourse. Soooo, I'm guessing that's a yes?

Originally posted by whobdamandog
You must have not read a whole lot of my posts..I've actually addressed the absurdity of women calling themselves lesbians, and then engaging in sex with women who look like men, using plastic replicas of the penis.

Again..if lesbians are attracted only to women..what's with all the dildo toys and many of them dressing up/acting like men.[/B][/QUOTE]

It's actually a cultural thing. And they're not alone in this aspect. Many African societies have the butchest, masculine acting women you'll ever met...but they're still straight and men are still attracted to them.

And it's a stereotype anyway. You cannot tell a homosexual from heterosexual unless A) they tell you or B) they choose to act in the stereotypical manner that degrades them all much like blacks acting like rappers and hos' or Latinos acting like gangbangers' or JLO wannabes. Are 50 Cent or Missy Elliot a accurate perception of blacks really are? No. Neither is Ellen or Rosie for lesbians. If you actually got into the real world and actually met a few lesbians, you'd see that most are just...women. They act like women, they look like women, and you wouldn't be able to tell they're lesbians unless they wore something (i.e. a rainbow flag) or they told you or you have really good gaydar. I met a lesbian who looked and acted like Jessica Simpson. I thought she would marry a Brett Favre. Lo and behold she turned out to be a lesbian who was dating a shy Pakistani girl.

I'm extremely surprised you fall for homosexual stereotypes, let alone any stereotype at all.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Sigh..Yet another "intelligent" individual who has failed with their argument..but what the hey..once again, I've managed to get another good laugh..😆

Once again, there is a difference between opinion and sheer degradation of another's opinion. You once said on another thread "what happened to differences in opinions?" What happened indeed. You claim to represent the conservative right (though I disagree as much as Ann Coulter representing the opinions of right-wing conservatives) but you're not getting them through. Why? Sarcasm, insults, more sarcasm, degradation of another's personality, intelligence or background, more insults and general bullying. You're being an *******. This is not an insult. It's a fact. You probably out of warped pride would acknowledge this fact. But if you truly (and I think you do because you spend a tremendous amount of time, research and development in your posts) want people to acknowledge the validity of your arguements, respect your opinions, and remain a viable contestant for the conservative side in an overwhelmingly liberal forum, then you must do it rationally without the insults, or the puns to insults or any type of degradation. Why does a great many of people seem to detest you? It has nothing to do with your opinion being opposite to theirs? It has to do with your sheer lack of respect for theirs and your need to establish your intellectual or moral superiority to them. Most people stop to debate with you anymore. Most just insult you like you've insulted them. Does it strike you odd that four moderators would go out of their way to show their disdain for you? Does it strike you odd that you don't seem to possess a single supporter or compatriot for what you have to say? And it has nothing to do with difference of opinion. It has solely do to with difference of manners and respect. You're a smart guy. And I completely agree we need a conservative voice (KidRock does not count) on this forum. But you're not getting your ideas through. Would you accept a stone if someone throws it you? Or would you accept it if someone gives it to you? You're just establishing their negative views on conservatives. That they are arrogant. That they are degrading. And they are just plain mean.

I hope this does something to change your forum behavior. If not, hey I tried.

Bravo.

Originally posted by Draco69
I'm more in the nature AND nurture park. I believe environment and biology plays a part in everything. However I do not believe a person can make a conscious decision to choose who they are sexually attracted to. It's just not possible.

So I'm assuming Draco, that you believe the following sexual attractions are not choices, but all genetic in origin:

Beastility-attraction to sexual intercourse with animals.

Necrophilia- attraction to sexual intercourse with dead people.

Paedophilia - sexual attraction to children.

Sadomasochism - sexual attraction/arousal to self pain infliction and self mutilation

Crophrophelia - sexual attraction/arousal to acts of defecation.

Urophilia - sexual attraction/arousal to acts of urination.

Transvestism - sexual attraction to men who dress up as women.

Asphyxiophilia - sexual arousal/attraction through the cutting off of the oxygen

Frotteurism - sexual attraction/arousal from touching others sexually without their knowledge.

Scatolophilia - sexual attraction/arousal from making obscene phone calls.

All of these are genetic conditions right Draco? No choice is involved in one's attraction to any of these behaviors..🙄

You keep on believing that bud...😉

Originally posted by Draco69
As for your argument, you say that a person is attracted to person because they practice the preferred sexual acts and behavior of your sexual orientation. This is enormously flawed. Are attracted to Anna Nicole Smith because she participates in vaginal sex? Or Martha Stewart? Or god help us Joan Rivers? I doubt it.

Again. You're have this warped perception that a homosexual man that participates in anal sex automatically is attracted to the another man that does the same.

I'm attracted to "natural" heterosexual sex. "Natural" heterosexual sex involves vaginal penetration and the possibility of procreation. It is also representative of the predominant "sexual pairing" of various species within nature.

There is indeed an obvious and strong correlation between one's sexual orientation and their attraction to certain types of sexual behavior. This is obviously because certain sexual orientations, only allow for various types of sexual behaviors. Only a fool would believe or state otherwise.

Originally posted by Draco69
Is it so hard? You're arguing something completely outside the topic. I want to hear from your side. Is homosexuality a choice or a biological component? You seem to refuse to address this point. This is an opportunity to argue your side of the ORIGINS of homosexuality whether through choice or biology. It's really that simple. Just choose a side. You can even choose biology. Say it's genetic defect or a virus or something. Be creative.

For one to engage in any sexual activity, it is always a choice Draco.

That being stated, an individual chooses what they are attracted to sexually, however, if you are of firm belief that homosexuality is genetic in origin then so be it. But just don't single out homosexuality as being the only "sexual orientation" that is genetic. You have to be fair and give the dog-bangers, crap eaters, child rapers, pee pee lovers, corpse-bangers, and other warped individuals the same benefit of the doubt as the homosexuals.

Originally posted by Draco69
The only gibberish I have said is that many homosexuals, male and FEMALE, do not participate in anal sex. And by full quantity MOST homosexuals do not participate in anal sex.

Your source says 80% of homosexual males participate in anal sex. Fine, let's go with that. Well, lesbians are say 50% of the homosexual participation and they don't participate in anal sex. Your source says that 20% do not participate in anal sex. Add them together and 70% of homosexuals do not participate in anal sex. Thank you for proving my point.

😕

You lost me there with the fuzzy math bud..here's the quote from wiki..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_sex

Anal sex among gay/bisexual men

In modern times in Western cultures, anal sex is popularly associated with gay men, and studies (Lauman, for example) claim that about 80% of gay men in the United States have engaged in anal sex.

Originally posted by Draco69
Again. What does any of this have to do with the topic? You're refusing to say it's a choice or it's biology. You're just focused on the sexual behavior that some, not all homosexuals practice. It's not helpful to either side of the argument.

Thank you. Finally. Let's focus on this. Forget the right/wrong, unnatural/natural of anal sex. Let's focus on this. Because it's the topic of the thread.

We are not arguing that anal sex is a viable biological function. No here is saying that. I repeat, noone here is saying that.

Okay. You're saying a person can be "attracted" to biologically unnatural sexual behavior thus it is a choice.

This is not rational. Many heterosexuals participate in anal sex. Particularly teenagers. They are homosexual? Lesbians do not participate in anal sex. They are not homosexual? Gay male teenagers who have not participated in any sexual activity. They are not homosexual?

You're not making sense. Your entire argument rests on the fact that a person is homosexual only if only they participate in anal sex. Anyone who participates in anal sex and chooses to is a homosexual. Which in the real world is simply not true and quite simply doesn't make sense.

More gibberish and silly logic. The bottom line is that it is impossible to separate sexual behavior from sexual orientation Draco, and all sexual behavior is related to choice, not genetics.

This has been stated to you/others countless times, however, it hasn't seemed to sink in as of yet. If one is a homosexual, they are going to be attracted to various unnatural sexual acts. Why are these acts unnatural? Because the "biological natural/purpose" of sex is that of procreation..and as I have also stated innumerable amounts of times within this thread..THERE IS NO ABILITY TO PROCREATE THROUGH HOMOSEXUAL INTERCOURSE.

Simply put..how could homosexuality be deemed as "natural", if the functions various parts of one's body were not "biologically designed" for such behaviors?

Why should it be treated as the same as heterosexuality, if the POSSIBILITY of such behavior allowing for procreation is non-existant?

Why these basic points have alluded so many of you for so long is beyond me. Perhaps it's because of stubbornness, perhaps it's because of ignorance..the bottom line however, is that it disproves the whole "biological" argument.

Thank you for giving me the chance to correct you many times within this thread. I hope you have learned something.

Fin.

Still amazes me that (not all) homosexuals say its genetic all together.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
So I'm assuming Draco, that you believe the following sexual attractions are not choices, but all genetic in origin:

Beastility-attraction to sexual intercourse with animals.

Necrophilia- attraction to sexual intercourse with dead people.

Paedophilia - sexual attraction to children.

Sadomasochism - sexual attraction/arousal to self pain infliction and self mutilation

Crophrophelia - sexual attraction/arousal to acts of defecation.

Urophilia - sexual attraction/arousal to acts of urination.

Transvestism - sexual attraction to men who dress up as women.

Asphyxiophilia - sexual arousal/attraction through the cutting off of the oxygen

Frotteurism - sexual attraction/arousal from touching others sexually without their knowledge.

Scatolophilia - sexual attraction/arousal from making obscene phone calls.

All of these are genetic conditions right Draco? No choice is involved in one's attraction to any of these behaviors..🙄

You keep on believing that bud...😉

All of the things you listed are paraphilias. A paraphilia is not a sexual attraction to a particular behavior as you have incorrectly characterized it. A paraphilia is sexual arousal in response to sexual objects or situations which may interfere with the capacity for reciprocal affectionate sexual activity.

Sorry, try again.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
All of the things you listed are paraphilias. [b]A paraphilia is not a sexual attraction to a particular behavior as you have incorrectly characterized it. A paraphilia is sexual arousal in response to sexual objects or situations which may interfere with the capacity for reciprocal affectionate sexual activity.

Sorry, try again. [/B]

okay...


definition of paraphilia

Any of a group of psychosexual disorders characterized by sexual fantasies, feelings, or activities involving a nonhuman object, a nonconsenting partner such as a child, or pain or humiliation of oneself or one's partner. Also called sexual deviation.

a pattern of recurring sexually arousing mental imagery or behavior that involves unusual and especially socially unacceptable sexual practices (as sadism, masochism, fetishism, or pedophilia)

Sexual practices that are socially prohibited.


definition of sexual orientation:

the inclination of an individual with respect to heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual behavior.

The direction of one's sexual interest toward members of the same, opposite, or both sexes, especially a direction seen to be dictated by physiologic rather than sociologic forces. Replaces sexual preference in most contemporary uses.

The bottom line my friend, is that sexual orientation, preference, and attraction can clearly be defined by one's "attractions" to various types of "sexual behaviors."

Draco stated that he specifically believed that all "sexual attractions" were derived from genetic and biological determinants.

But seeing as how you responded, I'll redirect these questions to you instead of him..

Is it your belief..that all types of "sexual attractions" are based on one's genetic composition and biology?

Is it even possible that some "sexual deviancy" is related to choice?

Is it ever necessary for one to take responsibility for their actions, or is it just a lot easier for one to blame their genetic composition...in order to justify whatever type of deviant behavior one chooses to partake in?

Do you have a source for your definition?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Do you have a source for your definition?

I am curious as to the source of the definitions he listed as well, because I could find no source that defines sexual orientation as an inclination of an individual toward a particular type of behavior.

I did find the following defintions:

Dictionary.com

sex·u·al o·ri·en·ta·tion n. The direction of one's sexual interest toward members of the same, opposite, or both sexes.

sex·u·al o·ri·en·ta·tion n. The direction of one's sexual interest toward members of the same, opposite, or both sexes, especially a direction seen to be dictated by physiologic rather than sociologic forces.

Psychologists define sexual orientation as "an enduring physical, emotional, and psychological attraction to members of a particular sex."

Originally posted by whobdamandog
The bottom line my friend, is that sexual orientation, preference, and attraction can clearly be defined by one's "attractions" to various types of "sexual behaviors."

There is no reputable source on human sexuality that defines sexual orientation as an inclination of an individual toward a particular type of behavior.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Draco stated that he specifically believed that all "sexual attractions" were derived from genetic and biological determinants.

But seeing as how you responded, I'll redirect these questions to you instead of him..

Is it your belief..that all types of "sexual attractions" are based on one's genetic composition and biology?

Is it even possible that some "sexual deviancy" is related to choice?

Is it ever necessary for one to take responsibility for their actions, or is it just a lot easier for one to blame their genetic composition...in order to justify whatever type of deviant behavior one chooses to partake in?

Paraphilias are not innate or chosen, but learned. Nearly all paraphilias are the result of behavioral imprinting. This is a process in which a person is exposed to a characteristic of a stimulus during a particular stage of life and learns a preference toward a particular class of non-reciprocal objects or situations.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
There is no reputable source on human sexuality that defines sexual orientation as an inclination of an individual toward a particular type of behavior.

🙄

Note: This definition is taken from Merriam Webster's Medical Dictionary!!!

[email protected] Webster not being a "reputable" source..😆😆

Oh I forgot..only the Dalai has the authority to deem why people are gay..my bad man..😆

For those of you who are slow on the uptake, and like to lie a lot..(ie like Adam Poe..😉)

Heres the actual link to the definition..

Medical Definition of sexual orientation

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Paraphilias are not innate or chosen, but learned. Nearly all paraphilias are the result of behavioral imprinting. This is a process in which a person is exposed to a characteristic of a stimulus during a particular stage of life and learns a preference toward a particular class of non-reciprocal objects or situations.

Who gave you that definition..let me guess..the Dalai Lama again..😉

I would love for you to explain how Necrophilia, Crophrophelia, Urophilia, Beastiality are "learned" behaviors. Oh forget it, I'll do it myself..I'm sure that the individuals that engage in these types of sexual behaviors grew up watching mom and dad pee pee and poo poo on each other, bang dead people, and hump the family dog everyday..🙄

Seriously bud..you're just speaking "gibberish" at this point. Even if your definition was a legitimate one(which I sincerely doubt)...If something is learned..obviously, at some point an individual makes a "choice" to engage in the "learned" sexual behavior...duhh..😉

It was a worthy last ditch effort bud..and once again, I commend you for being so tenacious in presenting your arguments..but lying my friend, is not going to help your arguments in the slightest my friend.

With that being stated..I'll assume that we've come to an agreement about "sexual attraction." Based on your above referenced statement, I'm certain that we can both agree that most deviant sexual behaviors, are based on the choices one makes, as opposed to being based on one's genetic composition.

Fin

I can't believe this topic is still going strong. 🙄

Let me say that I can and will have sex with whoever the hell I want, when I want. If I want to screw a pig, I can, and it has nothing to do with anyone.

It is really that important knowing whether people chose to be gay? To be honest, I don't give a shit. The religious junkies want everyone to believe it's chosen, so they go about converting us. People with brains say it's genetic and then we get jumped on by the religious weirdos.

Can this all please end...the same things have been said over and over, and no one seems to be listening. 🙁

Originally posted by whobdamandog
🙄

Note: This definition is taken from Merriam Webster's [b]Medical Dictionary!!!

[email protected] Webster not being a "reputable" source..😆😆

Oh I forgot..only the Dalai has the authority to deem why people are gay..my bad man..😆

For those of you who are slow on the uptake, and like to lie a lot..(ie like Adam Poe..😉)

Heres the actual link to the definition..

Medical Definition of sexual orientation [/b]

This is simply another instance of you selectively ignoring both the primary and secondary definition of a word in favor of a tertiary definition that suits your argument.

The definition you listed appears in the Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary from 2002. You will be interested to know that the latest edition of the Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary defines sexual orientation as "sexual interest in and attraction to members of a particular sex."

Moreover, no one has claimed the Dalai Lama to be an authority on anything other than Buddhism. Your continual references to the Dalai Lama in a thread in which no one has cited him as an authority on human sexuality are completely asinine.

Furthermore, if you are going to attempt to insult someone, e.g. call him both unintelligent and a liar, you should use proper grammar. Your incorrect use of the abbreviation for the Latin preposition "id est" makes you look unintelligent.

🙄

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Who gave you that definition..let me guess..the Dalai Lama again..😉

I would love for you to explain how Necrophilia, Crophrophelia, Urophilia, Beastiality are "learned" behaviors. Oh forget it, I'll do it myself..I'm sure that the individuals that engage in these types of sexual behaviors grew up watching mom and dad pee pee and poo poo on each other, bang dead people, and hump the family dog everyday..🙄

Seriously bud..you're just speaking "gibberish" at this point. Even if your definition was a legitimate one(which I sincerely doubt)...If something is learned..obviously, at some point an individual makes a "choice" to engage in the "learned" sexual behavior...duhh..😉

It was a worthy last ditch effort bud..and once again, I commend you for being so tenacious in presenting your arguments..but lying my friend, is not going to help your arguments in the slightest my friend.

With that being stated..I'll assume that we've come to an agreement about "sexual attraction." Based on your above referenced statement, I'm certain that we can both agree that most deviant sexual behaviors, are based on the choices one makes, as opposed to being based on one's genetic composition.

Fin

Once again, an irrelevant and asinine reference to the Dalai Lama who no one has cited in the 208 pages of this thread as an authority on human sexuality.

The information in question is paraphrased from Wikipedia.org, the same source you cited in reference to anal sex six posts ago. Do you still care to question the validity of the source?

Your deliberate misrepresentation of behavioral imprinting does not change the fact that this is the cause of nearly all paraphilias. Nor is your attempt to equate learned behavior in cases of behavioral imprinting to chosen behavior valid. The former is compulsive behavior, the latter is not.

So no, we do not agree. And as Draco69 pointed out, I think you will be hard-pressed to find anyone who does:

Originally posted by Draco69
Once again, there is a difference between opinion and sheer degradation of another's opinion. You once said on another thread "what happened to differences in opinions?" What happened indeed. You claim to represent the conservative right (though I disagree as much as Ann Coulter representing the opinions of right-wing conservatives) but you're not getting them through. Why? Sarcasm, insults, more sarcasm, degradation of another's personality, intelligence or background, more insults and general bullying. You're being an *******. This is not an insult. It's a fact. You probably out of warped pride would acknowledge this fact. But if you truly (and I think you do because you spend a tremendous amount of time, research and development in your posts) want people to acknowledge the validity of your arguements, respect your opinions, and remain a viable contestant for the conservative side in an overwhelmingly liberal forum, then you must do it rationally without the insults, or the puns to insults or any type of degradation. Why does a great many of people seem to detest you? It has nothing to do with your opinion being opposite to theirs? It has to do with your sheer lack of respect for theirs and your need to establish your intellectual or moral superiority to them. Most people stop to debate with you anymore. Most just insult you like you've insulted them. Does it strike you odd that four moderators would go out of their way to show their disdain for you? Does it strike you odd that you don't seem to possess a single supporter or compatriot for what you have to say? And it has nothing to do with difference of opinion. It has solely do to with difference of manners and respect. You're a smart guy. And I completely agree we need a conservative voice (KidRock does not count) on this forum. But you're not getting your ideas through. Would you accept a stone if someone throws it you? Or would you accept it if someone gives it to you? You're just establishing their negative views on conservatives. That they are arrogant. That they are degrading. And they are just plain mean.

I hope this does something to change your forum behavior. If not, hey I tried.

banned

Originally posted by Makedde
I can't believe this topic is still going strong. 🙄

Let me say that I can and will have sex with whoever the hell I want, when I want. If I want to screw a pig, I can, and it has nothing to do with anyone.

It is really that important knowing whether people chose to be gay? To be honest, I don't give a shit. The religious junkies want everyone to believe it's chosen, so they go about converting us. People with brains say it's genetic and then we get jumped on by the religious weirdos.

Can this all please end...the same things have been said over and over, and no one seems to be listening. 🙁

Let me also say that I find it socially irresponsible to eqaute homosexuality with sleeping with a pig.

However, I find it socially resposible to stand for your beliefs and life.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

This is simply another instance of you selectively ignoring both the primary and secondary definition of a word in favor of a tertiary definition that suits your argument.

The definition you listed appears in the Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary from 2002. You will be interested to know that the latest edition of the Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary defines sexual orientation as "sexual interest in and attraction to members of a particular sex."

🙄 😆

If you want to have anal sex with guys, so be it..but stop making up excuses to justify the lifestyle and sexual behaviors that you choose to engage in.

Fin again..

so whob do we choose to be straight then?

Originally posted by whobdamandog

🙄 😆

If you want to have anal sex with guys, so be it..but stop making up excuses to justify the lifestyle and sexual behaviors that you choose to engage in.

Anal Sex doesn't need an excuse.

If people want to do it that's completely fine. They don't need to explain themselves or provide excuses.

is it comprehensible.....

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
so whob do we choose to be straight then?

yes apparently

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
so whob do we choose to be straight then?

He has said that he chooses to be attracted to members of the opposite sex, and that he chooses to be straight. 🙄

I personally think that people are born with there sexuality... But I don't understand the why... I would accept that there are probably alot of guys who go gay for the sex, and rationalise it with "Its my body, I'll do what I like..."

I remember seeing a show about a male who was born with a Micro-penis...(exactly what it sounds like...) The doctors thought that if he was brought up as a girl he would accept he was one... and thus gave him a sex change operation... The dude spent his entire child hood as a tom boy... He never accepted it... At the age of 20ish he got a sex change back....