Homosexuality: Chosen or Genetic?

Originally posted by Robtard
No, I understood exactly what you meant; I also did not imply any negatives such as you thinking it a "curse". Odd.

Stop. That type of shit works on children. Come off it.

Originally posted by Robtard
So, care to answer my question... do you think the reverse is possible? Could you will yourself into being gay, as a gay person could (by your reasoning) will themselves into becoming heterosexual?

If I wanted to be homosexual, you had better believe I would become homosexual.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Stop. That type of shit works on children. Come off it.

If I wanted to be homosexual, you had better believe I would become homosexual.

Oh here we go again, you acting like the idiot. Go back and read what I said, I never said or implied that you thought or said something negative towards homosexuality. If you're convinced I did, quote it.

That's very telling... I can see how you could will yourself into having sex with a man, but how exactly are you going to will yourself into having a deep sexual attraction and emotional feelings towards a man/men?

Do you then believe homosexuality is a choice, if it can be willed or un-willed?

Originally posted by dadudemon
That is an illogical statement.

Asexual species are programmed via their genetics to reproduce asexually and sexual species are programmed via their genetics to reproduce sexually.

I meant exactly what I posted. You want me to mean "design" as a religious thing and I don't...or am I mistaken?

I loved that article on pheromones that you posted. Awesome stuff.

I have already addressed this in point #2. Even if the couple (doesn't matter if it is a homosexual or heterosexual couple.) is not aware that they are giving into the primal urges of reproduction, it still doesn't change the fact that they were programmed to do that. Also, maybe there is a reason why humans have sex for more than just pleasure. I think statistically compared to other mammals, we have a low success rate per copulation session. We may actually be programmed to have sex so much because of that; kind of like a balanced evolutionary behavior.

I say that because we get a flood of hormones-after we have sex-released from the hypothalamus, we are almost at the mercy of those hormones as we constantly crave, on subconscious level, the receptor modulation from these hormones. We also get a group of those hormones released when we are in love. (Doesn't matter if you are homosexual or heterosexual...if you are indeed in love with someone, those hormones are released.) We actually crave those hormones on a subconscious level as well...indeed, you could say that if they right things click with the person that we love, we literally become addicted to them, chemically. (That is one of the reasons people loathe in agony when they break up...we are still in love with them both psychologically and chemically...our body doesn't stop loving the person after we break up...we crave the hormones on a subconscious level.)

We are programmed, genetically, for all of this. This craving is nature's way of keeping a couple together long enough to raise a baby past 2. (Generally, the receptors are down regulated and the hormones lose their punch because there is less and less places to attach to. We are supposed to be attached to our partner, psychologically, enough to not want to break up by then. You have to really try at a relationship after the first 2 years because you don't really have that chemical punch anymore to help.)

I disagree. It is very simple and I really don't know what to tell you. I apologize that my opinion that is based on evolution is unsubstantiated...but it seems like a "no brainer" to me. When we learn more about genetics, my opinion will be substantiated then. Until then, it is pretty much a fact that our genes determine all of that sexual stuff that you think is unsubstantiated. Would it help if I had a geneticist agree with me?

I think you missed my point, which is understandable.

Here is my opinion on this.

I feel that humans have such higher brain functions that we can choose things that we are not programmed to do. I believe our minds are much stronger than the chemical urges out bodies have. I really do believe that someone can overcome homosexuality/heterosexuality with only their mind, regardless of what they were programmed to do at birth. I also believe that we can condition ourselves, subconsciously, to react differently to things that would appear to be genetic/biological markers. (Pheromones, for example. Also, other hormones. I believe that someone can be heterosexual, get all of those hormones released when they are in love with someone of the opposite sex, and then stop being a heterosexual and fall in love again with someone of the same sex and have the same chemical reactions as before...meaning that even chemically, they are homosexual....and vice versa.) This idea of "conditioning" is similar to the placebo affect...the mind is a powerful thing. Do not let that confuse you and make you think that I don't think the pheromones article you posted was to taken at face value: I think that we react to pheromones, most of the time, the way we were born to react to them. I also believe we can change that.

I am a strong believer in choice, as you can see.

i disagree with the last paragraph on highr brain function. ill give you an example, try giving up masturbation and sex with your wife{assuming u dont sleep around} COMPLETELY. sure maybe one in a million normal people cud do it, but generally its impossible even with all the willpower u can muster. it can sort of be the same with homosexuals.

Originally posted by dadudemon

If I wanted to be homosexual, you had better believe I would become homosexual.

idiotic quote of the week (so far, the year)

Originally posted by Robtard
[1]Oh here we go again, you acting like the idiot. Go back and read what I said, I never said or implied that you thought or said something negative towards homosexuality. If you're convinced I did, quote it.

[2]That's very telling... I can see how you could will yourself into having sex with a man, but how exactly are you going to will yourself into having a deep sexual attraction and emotional feelings towards a man/men?

Do you then believe homosexuality is a choice, if it can be willed or un-willed?

1. You missed the point of my telling you to stop. You are putting wrongful interpretations of statements out there that and you are intending to vilify my stance..even IF it is jest. That is what I am telling you to stop. Stop playing naive and don't call me an idiot when I have already called you on it.

2. It is not necessarily "willing". More like having and idea and pursuing it subconsciously. If you have really convinced yourself that you are homosexual, you WILL become homosexual with the right environmental conditions. If you were "designed" to be homosexual but you convince yourself that you are heterosexual, you WILL be heterosexual with the right environmental conditions. Also, the enjoyment of sex is largely psychological. To be honest about it, I think that sometimes, a person gets an idea in their head about their sexuality and pursues that avenue even if they do not have that orientation. Who is to say that you are not heterosexual but for some environmental reason, you think you are homosexual and "experiment" and then through those actions subconsciously convince your self your are homosexual? It should work both ways. What if a homosexual convinced themselves that they were straight and experimented and subconsciously willed themselves to be heterosexual? I think that later is a lot more common than people think.

On a side note, I believe that it is a lot easier to subconsciously will yourself into becoming homosexual than it is to will yourself from being homosexual to becoming heterosexual.

You focus too much on the homosexual part of it. I don't think you can unwill homosexuality. You can will yourself into becoming heterosexual, not unwill homosexuality. If someone tries to unwill homosexuality, it probably won't work. I am not saying someone has never tried and succeeded, I just don't think it will work and I have never known anyone to be able to reach that goal.

I apologize if my post is messed up...I didn't have time to proofread it to make it easier on the eyes.

Originally posted by dadudemon

I apologize if my post is messed up...I didn't have time to proofread it to make it easier on the eyes.

it would be easier on the eyes if you stopped posting your nonsensical literal excrement.

Originally posted by dadudemon
1. You missed the point of my telling you to stop. You are putting wrongful interpretations of statements out there that and you are intending to vilify my stance..even IF it is jest. That is what I am telling you to stop. Stop playing naive and don't call me an idiot when I have already called you on it.

2. It is not necessarily "willing". More like having and idea and pursuing it subconsciously. If you have really convinced yourself that you are homosexual, you WILL become homosexual with the right environmental conditions. If you were "designed" to be homosexual but you convince yourself that you are heterosexual, you WILL be heterosexual with the right environmental conditions. Also, the enjoyment of sex is largely psychological. To be honest about it, I think that sometimes, a person gets an idea in their head about their sexuality and pursues that avenue even if they do not have that orientation. Who is to say that you are not heterosexual but for some environmental reason, you think you are homosexual and "experiment" and then through those actions subconsciously convince your self your are homosexual? It should work both ways. What if a homosexual convinced themselves that they were straight and experimented and subconsciously willed themselves to be heterosexual? I think that later is a lot more common than people think.

On a side note, I believe that it is a lot easier to subconsciously will yourself into becoming homosexual than it is to will yourself from being homosexual to becoming heterosexual.

You focus too much on the homosexual part of it. I don't think you can unwill homosexuality. You can will yourself into becoming heterosexual, not unwill homosexuality. If someone tries to unwill homosexuality, it probably won't work. I am not saying someone has never tried and succeeded, I just don't think it will work and I have never known anyone to be able to reach that goal.

I apologize if my post is messed up...I didn't have time to proofread it to make it easier on the eyes.

FFS... Which part of "I didn't say or imply that YOU meant anything negative", can't you understand? If you really think I did, quote me.

Now you're saying it isn't willing yourself into becoming gay or straight, just subconsciously doing it, yet if you wanted to be gay, you'd be gay? Willing (subconcious, concious or anything else you wish to shit out) yourself into heterosexuality if you're homosexual, would be un-willing yourself from being homosexual, two sides of the same coin.

Originally posted by Robtard
Willing (subconcious, concious or anything else you wish to shit out) yourself into heterosexuality if you're homosexual, would be un-willing yourself from being homosexual, two sides of the same coin.

DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!
DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!
DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!

*head explodes*

Originally posted by Robtard
FFS... Which part of "I didn't say or imply that YOU meant anything negative", can't you understand? If you really think I did, quote me.

Now you're saying it isn't willing yourself into becoming gay or straight, just subconsciously doing it, yet if you wanted to be gay, you'd be gay? Willing (subconcious, concious or anything else you wish to shit out) yourself into heterosexuality if you're homosexual, would be un-willing yourself from being homosexual, two sides of the same coin.

Think you could choose to be gay for a week, ddm? Little pseudo scientific experiment, eh?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nope. You're missing it. I don't understand why, either.

Maybe because your thoughts are a jumbled contradiction?

People (homosexuals) can will themselves into being heterosexual, while not willing themselves away from being homosexual and it's all done on a subconscious level, which of course has happened quite often, yet has never happened.

Originally posted by dadudemon

If I wanted to be homosexual, you had better believe I would become homosexual.

Priceless.

Originally posted by Robtard
Could you will yourself into being gay, as a gay person could (by your reasoning) will themselves into becoming heterosexual?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Think you could choose to be gay for a week, ddm? Little pseudo scientific experiment, eh?

I asked this of him five pages ago:

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
By all means, choose to respond to male pheromones, or to become sexually aroused by a man.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I asked this of him five pages ago:

I take it you didn't get a sensible response.

I'm going to try and will myself into being sexually attracted to obscenely thin/anorexic women; that is subconciously, wish we luck.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I asked this of him five pages ago:

Okay...I give up. Gays are gays and nothing can change that and no gay is ever straight and no straight is ever gay. No person is ever really straight and then chooses to be gay and no gay has every changed their mind and become straight because they were straight to begin with.

No gay can chose not to be gay and no straight can chose not to be straight. No one can become gay because of environment because they were already gay to begin with and didn't know it and they think and outsiders think it was environment. No straight is straight because of environmnet because they were straight to begin with regardless of environment. The human mind is weak when it comes to sexual orientation and no amount of thinking or will, either subconscious or conscious, can change those facts.

Originally posted by Nellinator
What are you talking about? How did you even get there out of what I said?

My question had nothing to do with your statement. It had everything to do with the question posed by Schecter. You are a religious heterosexual, so I thought you would be the perfect person to answer the open question posed to everyone participating in this thread.

Originally posted by Robtard
I'm straight,

Originally posted by Nellinator
tomfoolery

One of these is not like the other.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Exactly.

I actually agree with your taking issue with that single statement in the post. It kind of stood out for me, as well. However, what you do is take a single curious statement from a mile long post and concentrate on it, rather than addressing anything else in a given post, perhaps anything that is more directed.

Originally posted by Robtard
They're all a joke, imo.

The sad part is that they are not.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I believe the mind is more powerful than most people think it is.

So, you think that because the human mind is working on, and may eventually break, the speed of light, that people choose to be gay without realizing it?

Originally posted by BlackC@
There is a huge diversity in the characteristics of homosexuals

There is a huge diversity in the characteristics of humans...period. The sad part is that some people don't consider homosexuals as valid human beings, simply based of their desire to sleep with other members of their sex.

Originally posted by Robtard
So, care to answer my question... do you think the reverse is possible? Could you will yourself into being gay, as a gay person could (by your reasoning) will themselves into becoming heterosexual?

Nope. He doesn't believe the choice is a conscious one, apparently.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If I wanted to be homosexual, you had better believe I would become homosexual.

What possible reason could you have for NOT wanting to be a homosexual? If there is nothing wrong with it, despite it being a choice, conscious or otherwise, ignoring the social stigma, bowing to the PC which that forces one to say "there's nothing wrong with it, I just don't wanna", what's the problem?

Originally posted by Robtard
I'm going to try and will myself into being sexually attracted to obscenely thin/anorexic women; that is subconciously, wish we luck.

Why? Take one for the team and try to be gay. Seriously, make a concerted effort to find another man attractive. And I'm not talking about sitting in front of the television, watching Troy and saying, "yeah, that Brad Pitt is hot. I could maybe let him suck my dick". That would be lazy, since the ability to find Brad Pitt attractive has been done for you by the media. Go to a gay club and try to blend in, try to get someone to take you home, and see how far you can go with it. Maybe you could take Dadudemon with you. Kind of make it a competition.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Okay...I give up.

How can you give up, when you haven't even tried?

Now you're making silly generalizations, which have nothing to do with what you've said in the last few pages.

How's that movie script going though?

(Edit: This was to Dadudemon's post above.)

Originally posted by Devil King

The sad part is that they are not.

Why? Take one for the team and try to be gay. Seriously, make a concerted effort to find another man attractive. And I'm not talking about sitting in front of the television, watching Troy and saying, "yeah, that Brad Pitt is hot. I could maybe let him suck my dick". That would be lazy, since the ability to find Brad Pitt attractive has been done for you by the media. Go to a gay club and try to blend in, try to get someone to take you home, and see how far you can go with it. Maybe you could take Dadudemon with you. Kind of make it a competition.

Not that kind of a joke, a joke as in they're ridiculous.

But I wouldn't want to be gay, if I had the magical ability to do so. I see how much shit gays get, why would I want that, I might as well 'magic' myself into a black man living in 1850's Georgia. I would take Dadudemon to a gay club though.

Originally posted by Robtard
But I wouldn't want to be gay, if I had the magical ability to do so. I see how much shit gays get, why would I want that, I might as well 'magic' myself into a black man living in 1850's Georgia.

So, basically, you're saying to hell with the team? To hell with the experiment?

Originally posted by Robtard
I would take Dadudemon to a gay club though.

I would not.

Originally posted by Devil King
So, basically, you're saying to hell with the team? To hell with the experiment?

I would not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the experiment, I just lack the faith (and the mind-powers it seems) to be the guinea pig and will my sexuallity any which way I desire.

Now that's just being mean and vindictive for the sake of being mean and vindictive.