Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Srank you were actually serious about Wolverine being faster than Spiderman, ouch.
Wait... what? I never said that Wolverine was faster, I said that while Spider-man maybe faster it isn't by much. If Spider-man fought Wolverine in melee he would get hit, he isn't nearly fast enough to even come close to being able to dance around Wolverine. Spider-man's spider-sense is what gives him an edge not his speed.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It will ALWAYS hit a circular argument with fanboys...
Tell me about it CM, tell me about.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
...because no matter what you say they ignore statistical evidence, and put up their wet dream outliers for characters. There's no point in arguing with people who ignore common sense and will only bring up nonsensical arguments of Wolverine picking up trees, and beating godzilla, or some silly shit like breaking the sound barrier. Spiderman's statistically faster, physically faster, and comically faster on a consistant basis, anyone who argues otherwise is simply being a fanboy, like yourself. I see you made no counter. I see that Wolverine fanboys will continue to wipe the page with their continued bad spelling. What point are you going to bring up? Dodging bullets? That's not even a big deal, hell bullets are the biggest jobbers in comics after all. Can Wolverine charge enough energy in his legs to clear a small parking lot in a jump? Can he pull himself 50 feet in the air. No. It's the same old stuff with new fanboyism, and I shouldn't really have to explain why a portrayal with Wolverine being faster than Spiderman using the same amount of effort is crap, since Spiderman is built to be faster. For some reason it's okay for you to argue DS hitting flash being crap just becuase, but when it's Wolverine I'm supposed to take your assanine points? Ok. I also like how you ignore Metalmanx's scans. 😆Its always, "it's ok because it happened, now lets blatantly ignore all of the fallacy in it because its Wolverine" and "There is no crap writing when it comes to Wolverine." According to you guys Wolverine shouldn't be grabbed by Shadowcat and should be speedblitzed, when does it end?
I'm not sure yet if you are a Spider-man fanboy or if you are just the polar opposite on the same scale as wolverine8888 used to be, balancing extreme admiration with extreme hate (either is unhealthy my friend). Either way I've have more then enough of your flat world logic, so you'll have excuse me if I ignore it for the most part. I'm not out right discarding statistical information however unlike you I don't think it should be used as foundation for an argument even in the best of situations and in this case the statistics have been contradicted so often it is hard to take them at face value. Spider-man is faster because he is stronger? Do I need to start naming of characters stronger then Spider-man who aren't as fast? Spider-man is fasted because he is built for speed? Look at Wolverine's frame, he is like the human incarnation of a great cat, all wiry, tightly coiled muscle honed to peak of it's efficiency. At the end of the day it is nothing more then you ignoring feats that you don't like because they don't suit your purposes on the forums. You aren't debating Wolverine vs. Spider-man, you are debating YOUR IDEA of Wolverine vs Spider-man, which are two completely different things and your idea of what Wolverine can and can't to hold about much weight as if I started sighting fan fictions as reason why Wolverine would win a fight.
I thought I covered Metalmanx's scans... Well, I'll do it again I guess. I can post dozens of similar feats of Daredevil, Nightwing, Batman and Captain America (even chumps like Shatterstar... and I think I have a few of Punisher as well) doing the exact same thing. Why doesn't Wolverine have feats like that (well... he has two that I know of but that isn't much)? Is it because he can't? No it is because with a limited number of panels the artists/writers need to pick what they are going to depict. Why would they choose to show case Wolverine's speed, which isn't an integral part of his character, as apposed to his healing factor? Is Sabretooth has literally torn people limb from limb... is he stronger then Spider-man because Spider-man has never ripped someone's arm/head/leg of on panel? While Wolverine himself doesn't have a great deal of "after image" feats, every other street level hero with out a healing factor does and that suits me well since my argument isn't Wolverine's speed = Spider-man it's that Spider-man's speed >! Other established streets.
The Deathstroke/Wolverine comparison
Deathstroke: Low-end feats in majority, ignored by posters for the High-end minority
Wolverine: High-end feats in majority, ignored by posters for the Low-end minority
Originally posted by capt it upwolverine8888 you have never won a single debate on this forum against anyone with credability, for you to have the odassity to ever open your mouth to call someone a "fanboy" is like Rupaul calling Richard Simmons a queer, it may be true...but who the hell is he to talk?
as always your sad attempts at bashing me fall short.
Originally posted by King KAM
wolverine8888 you have never won a single debate on this forum against anyone with credability, for you to have the odassity to ever open your mouth to call someone a "fanboy" is like Rupaul calling Richard Simmons a queer, it may be true...but who the hell is he to talk?
well im out of here. I be back later for an actaul debate not to listen to you cry
Originally posted by capt it upwell you have beat me more times than you can count, because as we know, you cant count to zero.
keep thinking that. ive beaten you more times then I can count, but that not really an accomplishment seeing as how you can't debate worth shit. all you do is say capt pwns or you try and make fun of who ever you are debating it quite pethetic. I not the one calling people fanboy. also your one to talk.
Mr. capt pwns all. what kinda arguement is that any ways?well im out of here. I be back later for an actaul debate not to listen to you cry
Come now Srank, now you've changed your entire premise again to the point that there is no real purpose of me engaging unless its to say that someone's style is better/worse than the others which will get entirely circular, so lets please stay consistent with what we're going to say. Either way this is sorely off topic and doesn't need to continue really.
Originally posted by srankmissingninThen why in the hell did you defend it last night? Do you always set out to blatantly contradict yourself, or say things you are simply going to contradict later. I *explicity* stated that Wolverine being as fast or faster than Spiderman is complete utter garbage, you came behind me saying it was because it "didn't suit my argument" and it wasn't at all. You knew it was crap to begin with and it was when I truly questioned how much longer your reputation would stay as it was on the forum. Which is hastily declining.
Wait... what? I never said that Wolverine was faster, I said that while Spider-man maybe faster it isn't by much.
Originally posted by srankmissingninThis one is my favorite, Spiderman has a great chance of getting hit in melee but Wolverine can't get hurt by Spiderman, if I show Spiderman dodging faster you will stick to this, but if I show Wolverine getting hurt by weaker than it won't work... crap. Spider-man stands to get hit in any fight, but with his greater speed, greater reflexes, and precognition, if he were to put it in high gear, his chances fade to very slim.
If Spider-man fought Wolverine in melee he would get hit,
Originally posted by srankmissingninWhy can't he, because you don't like it? Or because this isn't Wolverine, but precrisis Wolverine the others use on the forum that Shadowcat cannot grab? 20x faster speed, (argued at 40x), 20x reflexes with the upgrade, and vast other advantages will allow him to have a much faster advantage than Wolverine, Wolverine is an enhanced peak human, he isn't 20x faster than a healthy man, not on his best day, that's YOUR idea of Wolverine.
he isn't nearly fast enough to even come close to being able to dance around Wolverine.
Originally posted by srankmissingninNo Spiderman's speed, reflexes, and precog within his movement give him the advantage, unless you want to argue that Wolverine is 20x faster than a human.
Spider-man's spider-sense is what gives him an edge not his speed.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Tell me about it CM, tell me about.
I am.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm not sure yet if you are a Spider-man fanboy
You can call me what you wish, but I know I'm not. Until you see me running in threads and saying he can beat Godzilla, Hulk, and Herc in a one on one and denying later, your ammunition will be short lived. 🙄 I have no need to defend Spiderman on every thread, and nor do I, I actually think he loses to most that people post him in, but the epic threads are OBVIOUSLY much larger because they have much bigger fanbases.
YOU on the other hand, while you are more reasonable and knowledgeable than most of the asshats who wish to debate Wolverine (with better grammar which is why I respect you), your logic falters, no matter how much things and scans you wish to post, without logic is like no flavor on the pizza, it begans to taste bad.
Originally posted by srankmissingninOh yes, that's what it is, you know because I simply go around and I hate Wolverine so much, I just hate this comic character so bad... please, why would I hate a comic character, individually, I like reading him alot. I simply have a bone to pick with most of the morons who go on the forums defending him like a cult, because in their mind Wolverine is better than all else, you can check my sig and several profile quotes.
or if you are just the polar opposite on the same scale as wolverine8888 used to be, balancing extreme admiration with extreme hate (either is unhealthy my friend).
And, if ANYTHING, most Wolverine fanboys have it out for Spiderman on the threads, and are seen consistently arguing against him to begin with.
Originally posted by srankmissingninWhat is with Wolverine super-fans and their ignorance of logic? What is with most people and their ignorance of logic. Let me go fetch a definition for you, poor friend.
Either way I've have more then enough of your flat world logic,
log¡Eic  /ˈlɒdʒɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[loj-ik] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
¡Vnoun 1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
So for your information, logic *isn't* only tied to the real world, but is a means of coming to a reliable inference based on datum and interpretation. If most people realized this in the first place, there wouldn't be these god awful posts about what Wolverine can or can't do, but then again it wouldn't be the same...
What you don't understand, or would rather not accept is that this argument that you and I aren't engaging in isn't about "real world logic", but that a debate HAS to have logical parameters and outliers, without it would make an infinite debate or circular argument. Any thread without these outliers degenerates into the person that wants the character to win posting what is high to one character on the other end, and the person on the other side posting what is low for that character to the other end.
Originally posted by srankmissingninI know you ignore logic, which is what makes it even more painful to debate with you and the other Wolverine supporters, you are going to consistently ignore what you can't debunk, therefore discarding it. Making you guilty of what you said I was later on within this same contradictory post of yours.
so you'll have excuse me if I ignore it for the most part.
Originally posted by srankmissingninBut you are, you are saying they are "old pieces of data blah blah blah blah"... it's exactly what you are doing and now you deny it.
I'm not out right discarding statistical information
Originally posted by srankmissingninNo excuse me, I don't think it's a good argument to use alone, you need several aspects. Facts, feats, conditions, and logic. You'll never hear me just say shit out of the handbook, I only do that when I have a conflict in what a character is supposed to do. In KMC forums these are theoretical debates (meaning they are in theory and haven't happened yet), and the forums have certian modifiers that make using simple feats alone near obselete and inifinite as the opposing party will do the same without discretion. There are too many things that affect the outocome of a writing, and crossovers are seldom reliable, fanbases and other things play a big part in the outcome of a character in a book that *Marvel* itself didn't write mind you, but a writer did, and different writers have different interpretations, as you well know yourself.
however unlike you I don't think it should be used as foundation for an argument even in the best of situations and in this case the
Originally posted by srankmissingninWith contradictory characters like Wolverine, whose own feats have contradicted himself in the same month by the same writer qute often, it's often hard to take what he does seriously anyways, considering tons of it is affected by him having such a huge fanbase that all but the biggest fans will not deny.
statistics have been contradicted so often it is hard to take them at face value.
Originally posted by srankmissingninAllow me to rephrase that for you: the stronger a particular *muscle* is, the faster THAT particular muscle moves, the body isn't just one hunking piece, but a harmony of pieces, and the weight itself plays a factor. If I'm using more force (strength, weight, or power) into a well executed movement, it will go faster, that is common sense and it applies right down to basic striking.
Spider-man is faster because he is stronger?
Originally posted by srankmissingninDo I have to debunk these character based on different things such as weight?
Do I need to start naming of characters stronger then Spider-man who aren't as fast?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Spider-man is fasted because he is built for speed?
Moreso than Wolverine, yes.
Originally posted by srankmissingninHaha, wrong. Take a good look at Wolverine's body, all small and thick, with a heavy skeleton, of course he is fast (which no one is arguing about), but he is not built more for speed than someone with crazy reflexes, agility, flexibility, equilibrium, a spine that can be bent 2x as much as a human, and a stronger leaner body to boot... come now you don't honestly think that. Logan being 300 at 63 inches and Spiderman being several inches taller and 160 lbs wet. That's like saying a Lion is more built for Speed than a Cheetah. Absolutely absurd.
Look at Wolverine's frame, he is like the human incarnation of a great cat, all wiry, tightly coiled muscle honed to peak of it's efficiency.
Originally posted by srankmissingninExcuse me, every member on this forum has a right to defend and explain why they don't agree with certain feats, they don't just have to swallow pages of fanboy crap, which is why the rule was made in the first damn place (although loosely enforced). I don't simply say "this is crap, that is crap" to get out of an argument, simply because I don't have any need to. I bring all of my arguments up to reason, which of course have to be watered down to the likes of many who don't even understand the basic fundamentals of points in the first place. You've already proven and admitted that you don't like anything else but feats, showing you ignore forum rules and logic just because it isn't congruent with your feats, which of course many other Wolverine supporters are guilty of to boot.
At the end of the day it is nothing more then you ignoring feats that you don't like because they don't suit your purposes on the forums.
Take Wolverine's healing for instance? Does it have a set value being a plot device it is anyways as it changes from writer to writer? That's really just one more thing that will always be a circular argument.
Originally posted by srankmissingninArrogance at its best, everyone will have a different grasp of a particular character in this forum, and it goes in a spectrum. What do you think you're doing when you put up several high end feats, and an opponent puts up several low end feats to counter each other's argument? They obviously have different ideas of what the character can do, so your argument is hypocritical at best.
You aren't debating Wolverine vs. Spider-man, you are debating YOUR IDEA of Wolverine vs Spider-man,
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
Read that word, and understand its meaning, love it, learn it, appreciate it.
Originally posted by srankmissingninI love this, "my idea of the character is right on the forums" and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, this sounds like someone else I know a little to well.
which are two completely different things
Originally posted by srankmissingninNo different than your opinion of what Spiderman can and can't do, amongst other characters. And haha, anyone elses really. I don't have to sit and own every single thing to date to come up with a good premise about something, the ones who do nothing but sit and read one character and nothing else, are 99% biased anyways. They are knowledgeable but so biased that it is no point even having an argument with them.
and your idea of what Wolverine can and can't to hold about much weight as if I started sighting fan fictions as reason why Wolverine would win a fight.
Originally posted by srankmissingninGo for it.
I thought I covered Metalmanx's scans... Well, I'll do it again I guess.
Originally posted by srankmissingninI'm glad you understand what I'm saying then about all artwork feats not being seriously and multiple elements needed to come to a given conclusion I hope.
I can post dozens of similar feats of Daredevil, Nightwing, Batman and Captain America (even chumps like Shatterstar... and I think I have a few of Punisher as well) doing the exact same thing.
Originally posted by srankmissingninWhich would be exaggerated to make them look faster, and is no different with other characters and their depictions really.
Why doesn't Wolverine have feats like that (well... he has two that I know of but that isn't much)? Is it because he can't? No it is because with a limited number of panels the artists/writers need to pick what they are going to depict.
Originally posted by srankmissingninHe uses them all, including strength.
Why would they choose to show case Wolverine's speed, which isn't an integral part of his character, as apposed to his healing factor?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Is Sabretooth has literally torn people limb from limb... is he stronger then Spider-man because Spider-man has never ripped someone's arm/head/leg of on panel?
Originally posted by srankmissingninWhich further validates that you have nothing statistacal to back up your argument here.
While Wolverine himself doesn't have a great deal of "after image" feats,
Originally posted by srankmissingninWhich his greater speed is only really in question since once again these peak humans are statistically faster anyways, and Spiderman holds back alot more, suspension of disbelief here once again. If Flash consistently gets hit by boomerangs, does that make him slow? Of course not.
every other street level hero with out a healing factor does and that suits me well since my argument isn't Wolverine's speed = Spider-man it's that Spider-man's speed >! Other established streets.
Originally posted by srankmissingninWhich is really the opposite really, considering DS's calibur, but both of them have highly exaggerated feats, and Wolverine is downright inconsistant.
The Deathstroke/Wolverine comparisonDeathstroke: Low-end feats in majority, ignored by posters for the High-end minority
Wolverine: High-end feats in majority, ignored by posters for the Low-end minority
Again, Flash has a shitload of consistant low feats, does that now make him slow? Use logic.