Captain America vs. Wolverine

Originally posted by Creshosk
Here I thought you'd red the comic.
unless air conditioned.

It can be 107 degrees outside a place and 72 degrees inside it.

And where is? Obviously not his bed back at the x-mansion... cause he hadn't recoered there... not at the pub where he played pinball, still hallucinating from what was done to him there... obviously nowhere in his travels to his destination.

Well he was headed to Tyuratam in Kazakhstan...

Looks like a passenger bus to me.

which discounts the places he was before and after the desert, doesn't it?

I dont think I want to talk to you right now.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So you wanna nitpick? Its not enough enough that I retrected the statement straight after I said it ....in fcat what I said was that I didnt express myself properly. Can you see how your focusing on something thats not relevant anymore. Do you know its really annoying when I correct myself but you keep going on about it.

It's obviously still relivent since it's what launched us into this discussion if it wasn't for that, then we wouldn't be doing this.... RELIVENT.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So its irrattional to think that if you can seriously hurt somebody you can KO them as well?

Like you said.. he takes damage from Hulk and gets up....

A mace KOing him when he doesn't already have things riding against him is.. well... yeah irrational if you look at his character's history.. he doesn't get KOed from jumping out of shield hellicarriers and getting hit by cars, and planes but a mace is going to KO him? Cap is going to KO him?

The only way I see Cap KOing logan is with repeated shield hits or punches to nerve clusters etc etc... other than that.. he's not going to be availed with blunt force.. simple as.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Look im offended by that. You know why? I love comics but there is a specific reason why im not collecting them at the moment so I would appreciate it fi you did not make remarks like that.

And I would appreciate it if you weren't so quick to think that you know everything there is to know about a feat, event, or scan without ever having read the issue, or the issues previous and after. But here we are and you're trying to educate ME on Wolverine... 😐

Originally posted by jinzin
It's obviously still relivent since it's what launched us into this discussion if it wasn't for that, then we wouldn't be doing this.... RELIVENT.

*sigh*

Originally posted by jinzin

Like you said.. he takes damage from Hulk and gets up....

A mace KOing him when he doesn't already have things riding against him is.. well... yeah irrational if you look at his character's history.. he doesn't get KOed from jumping out of shield hellicarriers and getting hit by cars, and planes but a mace is going to KO him? Cap is going to KO him?

yes but despite that really skilled MAs can hurt, KO or kill him eg Shingen was hurting Wolverine pretty bad.

Originally posted by jinzin

The only way I see Cap KOing logan is with repeated shield hits or punches to nerve clusters etc etc... other than that.. he's not going to be availed with blunt force.. simple as.

Of course.

Originally posted by jinzin

And I would appreciate it if you weren't so quick to think that you know everything there is to know about a feat, event, or scan without ever having read the issue, or the issues previous and after. But here we are and you're trying to educate ME on Wolverine... 😐

Im not trying to educate anybody im just stating what I know, im allowed to do that. I never said I was trying to educate anybody. Gonna stop the comments now?

Originally posted by Alfheim
How is it relevant when I retracted it in the post straight afterwards.

Because you're continuing to argue... Making the point that started the discussion worth value...

Originally posted by Alfheim
yes but despite that really skilled MAs can hurt, KO or kill him eg Shingen was hurting Wolverine pretty bad.

... And. once again they don't fair so well unless Wolverine already has something wrong with him.

So you really do think that the pain that Skilled MA's dish out is more than what Hulk can? 🤨

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im not trying to educate anybody

Originally posted by Alfheim
im just stating what I know, im allowed to do that. I never said I was trying to educate anybody. Gonna stop the comments now?

You didn't have to SAY you were educating people when your actions speak louder than words..

I'm not going to stop until you step up and admit where you're wrong.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Of course thats why cap is enhanced and has enhanced level feats.

Wolverine is superhuman not just enhanced.

Plus look at the tier thread.

Originally posted by jinzin
Because you're continuing to argue... Making the point that started the discussion worth value...

No I didnt thats why I said forget about fear ie fear is irrelevant he just didnt want to get hit with it.

Originally posted by jinzin

It's not a pain elimiator it's a healing factor... Other people can hurt him AND that was against classic Wolverine which isn't even relivent here. 😬

Classic Wolverine had been hit by bricks before including the hulk.

Originally posted by jinzin

... And. once again they don't fair so well unless Wolverine already has something wrong with him.

Well talk about that later...maybe.

Originally posted by jinzin

So you really do think that the pain that Skilled MA's dish out is more than what Hulk can? 🤨

Im saying that the Hulk can KO Wolverine Mas can KO Wolverine.

Originally posted by jinzin

You ARE, you're trying to tell me how his healing factor works, what impedes it and what doesn't and you're continuing to do so in spite of the fact that be both know I've read far more Wolverine comics than you probably ever will. 😬

And that's the thing. You DON'T know, you just read about an event or see a scan and you think you know all there is to take into consideration.. but you don't...

You didn't have to SAY you were educating people when your actions speak louder than words..

I'm not going to stop until you step up and admit where you're wrong.

What the hell are you talking about its a DEBATE. Im stating my opinion. So what im not allowed to say what I think anymore?????

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wolverine is superhuman not just enhanced.

Plus look at the tier thread.

I dont think I give a damn anymore.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I dont think I give a damn anymore.

💃

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
💃

Cheers.

Originally posted by Alfheim
No I didnt thats why I said forget about fear ie fear is irrelevant he just didnt want to get hit with it.

And "yet you're continuing to argue". 😐

lol, it's relivent to the discussion that was your rationale, you didn't so much even retract it as much as you asked me to forget about it..

Originally posted by Alfheim
Classic Wolverine had been hit by bricks before including the hulk.

Yeah and? that's not the point.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well talk about that later...maybe.

uh-huh.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im saying that the Hulk can KO Wolverine Mas can KO Wolverine.

😐

😂

Okay earlier you said that the damage Wolverine took from X's army was negligable because he can take damage from Hulk...

NOw MA's dish out as much punishment as Hulk?

😂

Originally posted by Alfheim
What the hell are you talking about its a DEBATE. Im stating my opinion. So what im not allowed to say what I think anymore?????.

This whole debate you've been doing it. look at your reaction to my last scan... you started dictating like you knew everything there is to know.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I dont think I give a damn anymore.

"yet you're continuing to argue". 😐

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wolverine is superhuman not just enhanced.

Plus look at the tier thread.

Cap has also been called a Superhuman, Super-Man, Super-Soilder etc and so fourth.

Strength feats between Cap and Logan are close. If Logan is stronger it isn't by much that it would even be a factor.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wolverine is superhuman not just enhanced.

Plus look at the tier thread.

I'm not trying to disagree with you, any anybody else, but can anybody show me where it states he is superhuman and not just enhanced. Not just feats, most street-levelers have feats that would classify them as superhuman.

Originally posted by jinzin

Thanks, are there any other occurrences?

Would you also consider marvel.com a valid source for bios? Not the ratings I know their jack up, but just the bio itself.

Edit: Also, one more thing Jinzin, I notice on this forum people then to be picky and choosy as to were we get our information, and what we choose to accept and not accept from any given bio.

I say this because in the bio you just provided, it says wolverine is a master of many forms of combat, and not all.

So do we accept that whole bio as fact, or just the superhuman part?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Thanks, are there any other occurrences?

Would you also consider marvel.com a valid source for bios? Not the ratings I know their jack up, but just the bio itself.

Edit: Also, one more thing Jinzin, I notice on this forum people then to be picky and choosy as to were we get our information, and what we choose to accept and not accept from any given bio.

I say this because in the bio you just provided, it says wolverine is a master of many forms of combat, and not all.

So do we accept that whole bio as fact, or just the superhuman part?

As you said, he has a huge wealth of feats the easily put him at superhuman levels.

There's a New Thundebolts issue where his strength is descibed as being enhanced.

I'm not sure if there are anyother bios or whatnot that flat out state him as having Superhuman strength. I'll have to look.

You know, their bios actually aren't "too bad" from what I've seen.. but they do have so major holes sometimes, as well as the fact that they don't keep updated as much as they should...
For a long time they stated that Sabretooth still had his Adamantium but he lost it at some point and it was never addressed or covered in those bios... which is a bit "wtf".

Y'know to be honest I didn't really nitpick that "many" to mean that he didn't know forms of combat but I guess it could be interpretted that way, even so I wouldn' have much a problem with that, it's hard to imagine that even a guy like Wolverine would know "every" form or style of combat in the world.

I could accept him being superhuman if they actually realised it as a whole, not change his ability's and limits after every different writer.

The not staying dead thing is pathetic.

Marvel has stated the same for Captain America and the funny thing is outside of hand-books.

But in the books themselves. I'll link up the SCANS of these later on during the week.

The first one which is shown and repeated many times for Cap is on the top front page to the beginning of most of Mark Gruenwalds run which is stated he is endowed a "superhuman" physique. It also stats that Cap is the most capable combatant in the world.

Another time in Cap's guest appearance in Daredevil's issue about Nuke. As Cap hacks into secret government files it states Operation Rebirth to create Super-Men.

In Cap 301 Cap himself states the serum transformed me into a Superman.

Another time in Caps, Deathlock appearances the robots states its in shock since it has not seen a Superhuman in a long time. The robot was from a future were all superhuman are gone.

And now for some strength statements in the Invaders it was stated Cap's strength and agility is of half of a platoon. Half a platoon is normally the strength of 10.

And another time in volume 4. These Nazi enemies stated guard him closely he has the strength of 10 Men.

In DC there is a character that is regarded to have the strength of 10. And that character is Slade aka Deathstroke. Captain America shares that as well. Showing how similar they are in stats IMO.

I am beginning to think debating is worthless because characters change o much with every writer.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Marvel has stated the same for Captain America and the funny thing is outside of hand-books.

But in the books themselves. I'll link up the SCANS of these later on during the week.

The first one which is shown and repeated many times for Cap is on the top front page to the beginning of most of Mark Gruenwalds run which is stated he is endowed a "superhuman" physique. It also stats that Cap is the most capable combatant in the world.

Another time in Cap's guest appearance in Daredevil's issue about Nuke. As Cap hacks into secret government files it states Operation Rebirth to create Super-Men.

In Cap 301 Cap himself states the serum transformed me into a Superman.

Another time in Caps, Deathlock appearances the robots states its in shock since it has not seen a Superhuman in a long time. The robot was from a future were all superhuman are gone.

And now for some strength statements in the Invaders it was stated Cap's strength and agility is of half of a platoon. Half a platoon is normally the strength of 10.

And another time in volume 4. These Nazi enemies stated guard him closely he has the strength of 10 Men.

In DC there is a character that is regarded to have the strength of 10. And that character is Slade aka Deathstroke. Captain America shares that as well. Showing how similar they are in stats IMO.

Of couse Cap's superhuman, he casually benches over a thousand pounds while having a calm conversation...

His muscles move fast enough to make him look like he's vanished to the human eye...

He's insane.

Its bullshit on the writers part but meh what you gonna do.

How do we know how fast and how strong a peak human can be?

How did the guy know how strong 10 men would be? Would you know if he hit you or you were fighting him.

Originally posted by TheTick
I could accept him being superhuman if they actually realised it as a whole, not change his ability's and limits after every different writer.

The not staying dead thing is pathetic.

I'm not sure what you're reffering to when you say "as a whole"...
😕

Wolverine's been pulling off superhuman feats of strength since his first appearance when he broke an enormous amount of chains that bound him after Hulk hurled him into the earth.

In terms of writer to writer, he's had superhuman strength feats in every long running title that he's been a consistent character in including Uncanny X-men, X-men, both of Wolverine's solo titles, New Avengers, Marvel Comics Presents, X-calibur, and hell, even in titles such as X-factor, and X-force.

He's been stated on panel as having enhanced strength, tremendous strength etc...

He's been acredited as being super human in a multicompany crossover.

And in fact, Marvel's "official" stats on Wolverine in the handbooks, put his strength at a rank of 4 which IS a superhuman category.

Wolverine's feats of strength and stopping power are superhuman across the board so I fail to see why anyone would think he's any less than that. 😬

Okay, let me ask you this. What feats of strength has Wolverine failed to succeed in that would put him at a less than superhuman level? Because off the top of my head, I can't think of any... though my memory might have an admitted bias due to all the scanning and host for the upcoming revamp thread.

As for the coming back from death thing; It's nothing new.. He did it at least 4 times in his own series BEFORE the Civil War arc, he did it in X-men after his adamantium was ripped out, he did it in uncanny annual 11, and he's done it a handful of other times in other mini series and such including three times in Venom's solo series alone.

If that wasn't enough, Sabretooth who was believed to have a worse off healing factor than Logan repeatidly came back from the dead, ressurecting from everying from a broken neck or spine, to having an entire building collapse on him.
In their last fight before Loeb's run Wolverine cut Sabretooth into such a mushed up mess that he wasn't even recognizable from the bloody ground when the X-men got to his remains....

I'm actually shocked that people were surprised that Wolverine could come back from the dead...

I've been saying that for years..