disclaimer: i love this country but, as with the rest of the world, it has never been a utopia....so with that said, time for my 2 part rant:
rant part 1: in one way or another, this country has always been on the brink of falling
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this country was going to shit immediately after puritans hit american soil to escape religious persecution and began hanging poeple accused of witchcraft and herecy? (of coarse it wasnt an actual 'country' but you can see what i mean there.
perhaps when we commited genocide on the native americans?
or was it was in the 20's when jazz broke out and everyone said it would cause all kids who listened to become sluts and junkies?
could it have been the great depression when countless families were out on the street starving.
perhaps it was going to shit DURING the 50's when white kids listened to r&b that many parents labled "jungle music" rock n roll was supposed to bring it all to shit...elvis is all american now, but back then he was labled "elvis the pelvis" and accused of perverting the youth.
and the 50's were also a time of fear. the spread of communism was supposed to end the world, duck and cover, here today melted tomorrow.
man, im a child of the 80's and even THEN the idea of nuclear holocaust haunted my days and nights, i can only imagine the fear back then.
its always been shitty. people have always been scummy. only thing is now there are lots more people, and thus lots more scumbags. overpopulation doesnt help either. (take it from someone in jersey)
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rant part 2: whats different about today?
so whats DIFFERENT in the downhill slope?
media+ fasion&entertainment industries
(i group entertainment and fasion because they work hand in hand)
the entertainment&fasion industries will always invest in the controvercial, as it always makes money to shock. entertainment promotes materialism, commercialism, masogony, criminal activity, drugs, and every other nasty thing that they deem to be hip. and for every new fad there is a line of clothing to match it. an overpriced 'i'm a mindless commercial junky' uniform.
these people dictate the way kids and adults dress, act, think, feel, and treat eachother.
now for the media: the media has always instigated fear, as fear makes money. people are afraid of what our society is becoming, and thus stay glued to their TVs to see what horrible thing will happen next. the anchormen always act so shocked and remorsful, and a second later the scowl turns to a beaming smile to give news that a couple of pandas at the zoo had sex. the media has no heart, its only there to keep you watching, even if it means causing race riots to do so (remember the l.a. riots? you can thank the media for that.
the media and entertainment/fashion industies feed off eachother.
one promotes fear while the other promotes causing fear. one promotes sheltering your kids while the other wants your kids to be sluts.
one says america is falling to violence while the other sells violence.
and all the time we are scared out of our minds, or have the illusion that we are rebelling against those who are ignorant, or have the false notion that we know exactly what the bad guys look like, and wear, and listen to...guess who's cashing in on the whole fiasco?
Originally posted by ash007
Ok lil i undersand that but you have to tell us what is the other choice??I mean i agree that we are a product of a consumer society. But i rather have that then be run by a dictaership.
I mean there is no way to change this.
What the hell?
How in the world did you figure it out that the oposite to a consumer society is dictatorship? Thats bull.
I already repeated myself millions of times as to what i think the alternative is. I asked you to imagine it, and you couldnt have. Refer to my post.
And of course there is a way to change it. Its only because you cant imagine yourself outside the little box you were told to think in, does not mean that theres no way to change it - of course there is.
Gee, JP, when did you put on the rose specs? Tex and the others are right, you are living in a dream world if you think things have become worse than what they were.
Haven't you ever seen Blackboard Jungle? People were getting shot and stabbed in school in the US in the 50s and earlier. For a hundred years the most terrible and blatant racist crimes were being partaken of every day without an eyelid. We are talking mass rapings and killings here. Go back further, and in the 20s you have entire administrative areas under the control of organised crime!
Some things do grow worse- the prevalence of drugs, for example. But racism, horrible as it still is, has gotten better.
The one thing that has grown and irrevocably changed, though, is people's intolerance to this kind of thing. Even in a large part of the 20th century, people didn't care if they could ignore it, which was all too easy. But social conscience is growing. I disagree with most of what Lil says; I see it is naive waffle, but the core of it- the desire for improvement in society outside the narrow bounds of yourself and your family- is an increasingly prevalent trait in people today and this can only be a good thing.
Naive waffle? Whatever - this is not something i made up, but something i have read - its a sociological theory and the way academics in thsi field view the society - they actually study this shit all their lives.
So when you go off, come up with a theory, write a book, get published and when your work gets credited by at least one socilogist, then come back here and say something is naive waffle. Till then, im gonna think that all you say is bullshit.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Everyone has that problem. I wasnt specifficly refering to USA.How I want society to act? Well absolutely differently to how its acting now.
If i told you, Ash imagine yourself as having no extra money, no computer of your own. Imagine having no different clothes to everyone else, what would your identity be?
We are a product of a consumer society - you are what you own. We don't have our own dreams and hopes, we dream and hope the dreams and hopes which society as set for us - which is have tons of money, have big car, have big house, be loved by everyone, be beautiful because apperantly thats all that matters
Can you imagine a society where your face, your money status, your sexual orientation or your gender an issue? I don't think so, becuse we are all brought up thinking in a box that what we have now and how the world is now - is how it was ment to be.
The thing is most people don't know a good thing when they have it.
And Lil yes we do live in a consumer society which your parents helped create. You point out all the negative point but not the positive.
We live it a much better society then we did in the 50s people are more tolerant then before we are much more educated then we have ever been. Blacks are allowed to vote more and more people are having the courage now to stand up to what they believe in.
And let me ask you this we are only aware of are society because of the media as Tex said in the 50s things were much worse but the media has never done anything about it. Now they are speaking out against there own leaders.
50 years ago a newspaper would never print anything bad about there leader but now they do.
There has ALWAYS been a problem with society but we have only recently been able to learn of it.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
And I can show you just as many works from writers and theorists who think what you believe is bull too. You shouldn't get so aggravated just because someone disagrees with you, Lil, or go around thinking you have a monopoly on quoting truth, becayse that is phenomenally arrogant.
hah! Get over yourself will you.
Unlike YOU i dont get aggravated when someone disagrees with me, or corrects me, i get aggravated when someone does it in a way YOU do it. Strutting into a thread and calling everyone who doesnt agree with you ignorant and naive and you have the nerve to call me arrogant?
Originally posted by Ushgarak
We are talking mass rapings and killings here. Go back further, and in the 20s you have entire administrative areas under the control of organised crime!Some things do grow worse- the prevalence of drugs, for example. But racism, horrible as it still is, has gotten better.
Don't take it the wrong way here Ush. But that comment regarding crime in the 20's can open a new can of arguments. Most of the organize crime was establish by immigrants from Europe. So was the large migration of the early 1900's to America the cause for the crime? I would say not, but there could be connections.
Well, let's have a look what happened here, Lil. I noted that I did not agree with that you said. Now, look at the tone of your post in reply. If you don't think that sounds aggravated just because I disagreed, that's very weird. Nor did I use the word ignorant- you made that up, which goes to say something about your mentality at this point. You then try to rather crudely reverse your own error by trying to make out I am making what are, in fact, your failings.
You'll just have to accept that our viewpoints differ, Lil, and not pretend that your view is the only one with any weight or evidence behind it.
Originally posted by WindDancer
Don't take it the wrong way here Ush. But that comment regarding crime in the 20's can open a new can of arguments. Most of the organize crime was establish by immigrants from Europe. So was the large migration of the early 1900's to America the cause for the crime? I would say not, but there could be connections.
Well, you could just as easily point to external factors for today's crime as well, from the Russian mafia to Mexican immigration. But does the cause matter? It's the final state of the US I think JP is interested in. As you say, that it an entirely different line of argument.
Re: The Downfall of America?
Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
That era was definitely the beginning of many things. The women's movement, the free love, the free flowing drugs, the general lack of respect for anything remotely connected with the government or authority.
I totally agree with that statement. tha women's movement is pretty much an accomplished cause, and they need to just shut up. free love is practically EVERYWHERE and also diminished tha importance of a marriage [since pre-marital sex was marked awfull]. drugs have become a normal part of life, with millions of ADULTS smoking pot secretly and regularly. and tha lack of respect for authority has made rebellion "cool" in almost everyones mind [to a degree].
Wut goes up, must come down. It's just how it works.
When you achieve a state of well-being [doesn't matter who does, or wut does], motivating factors that got you there start to decline. tha slower tha worse, for people seldom realize it. people become content with wut they have, and divert their attention to other things.
Also, everyone is aware that there are usually small fluctuations in every organization's success. so when something starts up that causes a small increment of decline, people dont put much attention towards it - so more and more things pop up. this results in a downfall, tha slower tha worse...
Look at how the U.S. helps other countries by going out of its way. why? because we already did that in here. would tha 13 colonies help any other country in their time of need in tha late 1700's? HELL NO...because they were motivated to become independent and strong.
It's just how it is, i'm afraid.
Re: Re: The Downfall of America?
Originally posted by HarmonicFlo88
I totally agree with that statement. tha women's movement is pretty much an accomplished cause,. free love is practically EVERYWHERE and also diminished tha importance of a marriage [since pre-marital sex was marked awfull]. drugs have become a normal part of life, with millions of ADULTS smoking pot secretly and regularly. and tha lack of respect for authority has made rebellion "cool" in almost everyones mind [to a degree].
Wut goes up, must come down. It's just how it works.
THIS is what I was getting at I think.
And Ush you know I live in a constant state of nostalgia! 😉 😛
I think what it is I'm nostalgic for is they days when you didn't HAVE to lock your doors at night, when your kids COULD walk to school without the fear of getting accosted or worse yet kidnapped, when you didn't lock your car doors, when you could sit out on your porch at night if you lived in town and didn't have to listen to loud mufflers, stereo's, neighbors whatever, when men for the most part opened doors for women etc. ( and YES I know women shot themselves in the foot here, I am NOT a feminist it should be noted ). However I do stand by my opinion that life in the US in general remains more immoral today.
whoever the hell said that society in the 5o's was worse than our society now, is a idiot,there were no complexities back than and now i think people suffer from future shock, i know racism was bad,and minorities had no rights, but that still happens only in a different way, i think society has come to dog eat dog, and its frightening how disgusting people treat other people, atleast back then people werent so frightened of each other like they are now......