Originally posted by jinzinIf what you're saying here is true then a character bio would be so irrelevant that there wouldn't be any need for any.....just like a cartoon... See the comics can show any picture's that they want to.. the artists can push any character far beyond his actual limits at whim...
see the thing is....you're trying to use real world logic where real world logic doesn't apply...and what happens when that starts to become a promblem (i.e. immediately) is we start getting into a semantic debate....I came here to debate comic book characters in a COMIC BOOK vs. forum....I don't know....it's just that there is no definitive spiderman, no definitive wolverine, no definitive captain america or daredevil...all we have to go by is feats....the reason why we spend so much time debating these things the reason why we love these characters is because we've come to know them, to understand them, through their "life experiences".....when someone skims through a couple graphic novels at the local book store, and looks up some "stats" about the character and think they know all there is to know about the character...it pisses me off.....really....like I said...this is a comic book versus forum that's what I'm here to debate...so lets do that....
And I really feel that using obvious examples of an artist embellishing or a writer that goes way off course and then getting mad because it's obviously exagerated to people who feel neutral towards the character, is a bit pointless...
We're going in circles behind whether or not REALITY matters. The reality of it is that Cap and DD are human and that's a pitiful thing to be if you're facing a real Spider-man...You're slower and weaker by miles...
That's because no human could REALLY match Spidey's speed unless their's were Superhuman. None of the trio have an ounce of superhuman anything that make's them a slight match for Spidey except Wolverine...
And he should get knocked out but I realized now that Wolverine IS the ONLY character that has been shown to be as durable as he needs to be, truly living up to his motto " I'm the best I am at what I do" Survival is what he does... whether it defies logic or not...
So I'd like to remind you that comic book characters have found their way out of comic BOOKS and guess what? Wolverine got shot and knocked out....DD got manhandled by the kingpin...Cap was a hero but definitely human...and Spidey was so very NOT human that he was CG most of the time....and none of these examples here were TAKEN from comics, but they were created by the COMICS!!!
So they must not have known that Wolverine was a feral superhuman like Sabertooth and could have stood there smiling if he was shot point blank in the grill with a sawed-off...I guess their research of his abilities was inferior to wolvy fans research...
My last point to make is that if Marvels' and DC's comics weren't rooted in real world logic, then movies depicting the character's would be difficult to make believable in any way....Ever seen fist of the north star..with REAL people? Batman looked believable as hell...without many special fx either. HMMMMM...
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Originally posted by Creshosk
I'm not sure if CA can, he's always blocked with his sheild, which he's fast enough to block up and CAN take spider punches.
DD I'd have to say yes because he's taken hulk swats and not died.
DD has, just like CA, no real superhuman durability. He's tougher than you and me, but that's about it.
A bullet in his head will kill him. Spider-Man hits much harder than a bullet.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Welcome to the fray Cordera..but as you can see..it's next to impossible for anyone to explain the concepts of "logic" and "reason" when arguing against Fanboys. Their arguments can always be broken down into the three following categories:[b]1. "All history must be considered" argument..
Description: To the fanboy..this means that all stories that occured in the character's history should be allowed into the debate. This includes rediculous issues where Captain A is shown to take down a full powered Galactus..or DD is able to gauge how fast a space shuttle is moving in outer space by detecting the pulse rates of the crewmembers. These types of arguments are usually easily rebutted, by another equally rediculous argument..(ie But Spider Man beat Firelord, Spidey was rejected by Death..so he can't die..stuff like that)
2. "These are comic book characters..you can't apply logic!!!" argument
Description: Essentially what that Fanboy is trying to imply is that there should be some form of "suspension of disbelief" when reading comic books. What the Fanboy doesn't realize, however, is that there has to be some form of logic even in comic books, or else there would be no standard for them to debate by.
3. "Stats do not count!!" argument..
Description: This essentially means that the Fanboy doesn't agree with how the comic book companies define a character and their abilities in handbooks/guidebooks/etc. Argument 1 is usually used to support this by demonstrating characters doing things that their stats don't list them being able to do, in 1 or 2 comic books. Usually these examples are taken from "what if" comics, company crossovers, or stories written by John Byrne, J Michael Bendis, or other continuity wrecking comic book writers.
Once you realize and are able to define that these 3 types of arguments are being used by the person you are debating with, you can identify them as a "FANBOY", and as I generally do..leave the thread, and expend your energy/knowledge in other topics/forumns..
Hope this helps you out a bit.... [/B]
You should check out how many people like using movies to support argument's if they happen to be a fair representation of the characters. A different thread though...
Spider-man was beating the hell out of Ock so bad that the guy had to resort to a dirty trick after RUNNING AWAY from Spidey. Spidey wasn't hurt after falling off of the train from about four stories up and landing on pavement...He promptly evaded traffic while sliding on his BACK and swung back up in moments. Cap and DD can hurt this guy? GIVE ME A BREAK, DOC OCK COULDN"T HANG WITH A FOCUSED SPIDEY!!! HE HAD FOUR TENTACLES THAT WERE SUPER FAST AND STRONG!!! Cap and DD aren't Super physically AT ALL!!! Show me anything that state's Wolverine's ability to heal instantly and I'll say that I agree with his power (which is only matched by hulk, and Juggernaut to fans) being displayed accurately....
From what I've read wolverines healing power is inferior to the hulks and Spidey has knocked out the hulk right? THERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF CRAPITY CRAP WRITING I BET TRIO SUPPORTERS WOULD AGREE WITH!!
Wolverines fame is the only challenge to Spidey here because Spidey's far from a scrub who has to tell jokes...He can focus and destroy the INFERIOR combatants. Please stop saying that they'll make up for their weakness with experience cause Spidey's been doing the HERO thing longer than Wolverine( He said it himself when they battled Wendigo)...And not killing is WAAAAY HARDER than killing.
DD and Cap are useless against webbing and focused Spidey ain't gonna miss cause his aim and experience using it is only rivaled by Cap's sheild and Scott's beam.
Getting snatched by webbing could finish them as fast as an unpulled blow to any vital area. He could muscle these guys the way an adult muscles a very skilled teenager..RAW STRENGTH vs VERY UNDERDEVELOPED MUSCLES...He squeezes one's arm( lets say DD's) after an easily evaded punch, crushes all the muscle nerve and bone tissue, DD screams ( of course cause he's human), Spidey jumps as high as he can and throws DD down as hard as he can.....Takes all of 3 to four seconds....He has way more options than this, he is Spider-man after all..
Originally posted by who?-kidWhich is why he had his sheild take all of spidey's punches.
True, CA is a master with his shield, and hitting him will be not as easy as one would think. But the fact remains that Captain America does not have real superhuman durability, so he can not take a powerpunch.
Originally posted by who?-kidBut he didn't. . .and that's what I was saying. he did not go "splat" like he should have
What ? I remember DD fighting Hulk one time, and DD ended up in hospital. He almost died.
Originally posted by who?-kidand it is tougher than us enough to take a hulk swat. . . I can't say I could take the same.
DD has, just like CA, no real superhuman durability. He's tougher than you and me, but that's about it.[/b]
Originally posted by who?-kidAnother should sort of thing. . .
A bullet in his head will kill him. Spider-Man hits much harder than a bullet. [/B]
Spiderman SHOULD be able to hit hard enough to ko them. But he hasn't in the past. So if he COULD have then he WOULD have. So why HASN'T he?
Must be something on the reciving end rather than the sending end.
Wolverine has taken spiderpunchs on numerous occasions. But I guess the only peron really still arguing aginst wolverine being able to take a spiderpunch is the self proclaimed "inteligent, polite" debator that disregards points and flames his opposition and the MISTER.
Originally posted by Creshosk
And Spiderman couldn't even budge Doc OC's sunglasses when he punched him . .That was so stupid for Doc Oc to take a shot from spiderman and the galses dint' get even cracked. . .
But hey if you're going to use the movies. . .
Because if you use them, the Icon Trio will be crushed by both comic SM and movie SM...