Thanks for saying what you feel, you don't sound fanboyish, but at the same time, you are giving no SOLID, CONCRETE, evidence on this happening.
Anyway, here are some of my reasons and examples.
There is no way that they are touching a full on aggressive Spider-man.
Spiderman could maneuver around that shield, any continuous attack IMMEDIATELY puts caps on the defensive. He does'nt have to "hit" him just web his ENTIRE BODY while on the side of a wall, and slam him FULL FORCE against a wall, or semi or something, there's one third of your argument, Same with daredevil, 2/3 of your argument then there's wolvie.
Wolverine can't touch Spiderman unless he allows him to, and because of his poor range, Spidey can gaurantee a win with out getting close.
Daredevil would not be hanging with spidey for too long, a few hits, hell even one hit he's gone.
Please oh please, could someone give examples of how this would happen instead of just saying it would. 😉
I'm pretty sure Wolvie has tagged spidey on all 3 of there fights, Daredevil has knocked him the !@#$ out, and Cap is an equal if not better fighter than Wolvie.
DareDevil has hung in on all his encounters with Spidey.
Spidey has never been able to cause any damage to Wolvie.
You're severely underestimating Caps defensive capabilities. If I was a cap fan I'd provide you with tons of examples.
Which is no different than saying Spidey can't hurt Wolvie.
I'm saying that if he were to use his principles of range, like I.E Staying on the side of a high wall and using a web-slam, that the trio would be unable to close the range it spidey was on the defensive, which he could be in this match.
Just a suggestion. 😮💨
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Which is no different than saying Spidey can't hurt Wolvie.I'm saying that if he were to use his principles of range, like I.E Staying on the side of a high wall and using a web-slam, that the trio would be unable to close the range it spidey was on the defensive, which he could be in this match.
Just a suggestion. 😮💨
Wolvie has already proven that he can dodge or negate webbing.
Cap is as good a fighter and has a shield, you know, a thing designed to block other things...
If I need to tell you why DD can avoid being webbed you're on the wrong forum.
No one ever said there wasn't but if there was, which is way more than likely on a random match with a reasonable setting, almost any surface would do.
Mercilous, I'm really not taking anyone out of consideration, Wolverine is an awesome fighter and easily stands close on spidey on spideys good day, DD has hung up with him, and CAP is too good to even be considered peak human, but they ARE peak human deep down.
I'm just using the conditions of this match posted by matches malone earlier, A random match, means cap is going to have be defensive for a reasonable time to come up with a strategy, IF he even does, Daredevil is considered to be the weakest link of this. I don't know what you guys think about DD, but I would say he can definitely turn the tide on this one.
You guys are using comic evidence, which is smart, I need to use some too. DD was having his hands full with a hypnotized Spidey not using all of his powers. Wolverine CAN indeed be hurt by spiderman. Saying there is no way he can even be injured by a All out Spidey, while he has been injured by so many other things is either overestimating wolvie or underestimating spidey. Like it was mentioned earlier, not killing is way harder than killing. Unless Wolvie is a Kryptonian, he can be injured by things,given he will regenerate. He is a mutant slightly stronger and faster than cyclops, and would look about even with caps in that term, at most he could probably fling a pool table across a decent sized room with ease.
Spidey is strong enough to hurt and has hurt (though not necessarily easily defeated) Hulk, Thing, She-Hulk, Rhino, Scorpion, Firelord, Venom, Juggy, Carnage, and many more. A good bit of these guys can take more than Wolvie without being phased, and are still suspectible to spidey's webbing. Yes I know Wolvie can regenerate, but Spidey has enough sense to attack him one good time, Something like the tough Zerg in starcraft.
Spiderman being the brilliant young man that he is, knows DD is the largest threat in terms of agility, Cap in Strategy and Perhaps Strenth, and Wolvie Taking the cup indurability and Ferocity, knows to nill cap or dd first since they can be handled with a blitz, Wolvie would take a special strategy, but its not like spidey hasn't had tougher battles on his hands. He does take the cup in all areas except durability and team strategy. Give the guy more credit he works alone you know.
😎
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
No one ever said there wasn't but if there was, which is way more than likely on a random match with a reasonable setting, almost any surface would do.Mercilous, I'm really not taking anyone out of consideration, Wolverine is an awesome fighter and easily stands close on spidey on spideys good day, DD has hung up with him, and CAP is too good to even be considered peak human, but they ARE peak human deep down.
I'm just using the conditions of this match posted by matches malone earlier, A random match, means cap is going to have be defensive for a reasonable time to come up with a strategy,
Cap is the guy I know least about in this fight, but if there's on thing I do know is that it doesn't take him a while to come up with a strategy period. He always knows exactly what to do, it's why he's considered the greatest leader possibly in the entire MU.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
IF he even does, Daredevil is considered to be the weakest link of this. I don't know what you guys think about DD, but I would say he can definitely turn the tide on this one.You guys are using comic evidence, which is smart,
thank you.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I need to use some too. DD was having his hands full with a hypnotized Spidey not using all of his powers. Wolverine CAN indeed be hurt by spiderman. Saying there is no way he can even be injured by a All out Spidey, while he has been injured by so many other things is either overestimating wolvie or underestimating spidey.
I admit there was some exageration (I'm not use to argueing with rational spidey fans so I get a little excited.) But I do beleive it has proved exceedingly difficult for Spidey to injure Wolverine.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Like it was mentioned earlier, not killing is way harder than killing.
This is more of an arguement for Wolvie, who has hit spiderman with claws sheathed.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Unless Wolvie is a Kryptonian, he can be injured by things,given he will regenerate. He is a mutant slightly stronger and faster than cyclops, and would look about even with caps in that term, at most he could probably fling a pool table across a decent sized room with ease.Spidey is strong enough to hurt and has hurt (though not necessarily easily defeated) Hulk, Thing, She-Hulk, Rhino, Scorpion, Firelord, Venom, Juggy, Carnage, and many more. A good bit of these guys can take more than Wolvie without being phased, and are still suspectible to spidey's webbing.
Well, you said it again, all three of Spidey's opponents have gone against a few of these guys and have done pretty well themselves. I think a good bit of those guys can also take Spidey without being phased.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Yes I know Wolvie can regenerate, but Spidey has enough sense to attack him one good time, Something like the tough Zerg in starcraft.
Again, he has attacke him one good time, in fact several good times in a row, and wolvie has shown he can take the best of it. I wonder if it has anything to do with that adamantium skeleton/healing factor combo...
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Spiderman being the brilliant young man that he is, knows DD is the largest threat in terms of agility, Cap in Strategy and Perhaps Strenth, and Wolvie Taking the cup indurability and Ferocity, knows to nill cap or dd first since they can be handled with a blitz, Wolvie would take a special strategy, but its not like spidey hasn't had tougher battles on his hands. He does take the cup in all areas except durability and team strategy. Give the guy more credit he works alone you know.
😎
You say Spidey can come up with a strategy, but I know (and I think you know too) that cap can come up with a far superior one. He has more tools at his disposal (wolvie and DD,) and simply has a far greater strategic mind.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Cresh you know what, you need to read more facts, stuff them up your butt, so you can remember them, because it seems that is where all your logic is coming from anyway.
And people were telling me I needed to read the entire thread.
Why the hell do I need to shove fact's up my ass?
Originally posted by Creshosk
And people were telling me I needed to read the entire thread.Why the hell do I need to shove fact's up my ass?
rebuttal..
Originally posted by whobdamandog
For those of you just coming in..let's go ahead and logically summarize all of the arguments against Jinzin's "historical"..pictures..and include his rebuttals..lol1. In the first post...Spider Man was "hypnotized" and was not using his Spider Sense, Agility, Webbing when attacking DD..
Jinzin's rebuttal: It doesn't matter if SM was "hypnotized" or using his Spider Sense or webbing....even though he won't be "hypnotized" and will be using all these abilities to their optimum capacity in this fictional non-continuity based scenario..
2. Spider Man once again misunderstands DD's intentions, and mistakingly tries to "subdue" him thinking he was fighting for the kingpin..notice i use the term "subdue"....lol..he was not going for the kill...or using the full extent of his abilities..if that were the case..DD could have been easily webbed up..and finished off right away..
Jinzin's response: pretty much the same as whob stated..except DD was shown to withstand an "unpulled" punch from SM..
3. Spider Man fights Wolverine in a Graveyard..trying to stop Wolverine from killing his friend "Charlie"...he avoids most of Wolverine's blows..which the same can not be said of Wolverine..in the last panel Wolverine admits that SM could kill him..if he had the guts enough to break his neck...
Jinzin's response: Wolverines..adamantium works on a molecular level..thus there is no way he could break his neck..even though Wolverine himself..as well as professor X and Marvel comics has admitted it possible to do this..lol..anyway...
4. Wolverine manages to take cocky Spider Man by surprise and stab him in the chest..after SM once again easily incapacitates Logan with the webbing..and doesn't attempt to further web him up..even though he could..(don't ask me why the hell he doesn't)
Jinzin's Response: Did you read the comic man..you have no credibality because SM was clearly trying to go for the kill against Wolverine in that scenario..lol...
5. Cap punches Wolverine in that horrible John Jameson "Man and Wolf" storyline..which was probably one of the worst Cap stories in existence....I have no idea why the hell he would think using this storyline would help his credibility out at all..
Jinzin's response: Cap can not feel pain..he almost knocked out Wolverine in that storyline...this is completely logical especially when you compare it to Wolvie not even flinching at SM's punches in the "Graveyard" story..this makes complete sense..and is in no way contradictory to the other pictures I posted...
6. Last pictorial...Spider Man attacks Wolverine..thinking he is an imposter..not knowing that he's actually facing the real Wolverine..he mentions that he will not go all out..and defend Wolvie's honor..(or something like that..) before realizing that he is indeed actually fighting the geniune article..
Jinzin's rebuttal: I've rebutted this several times..your just to dumb to realize that Spidey was once again going for the kill..that's why he doesn't attempt to web the "imposter" up..come on man..your making this to easy..lol...
There that pretty much sums up the last couple of pages in a nut shell..
However..in all of Jinzin's illogical ranting..he never once responded to the fact that Wolverine has been easily subdued by the Fantastic Four and Spider Man(refer to the previous pick of Wolvie webbed up)..while Spider Man has not..and he neglected to even respond to or read the summary..which lists panel by panel..on just how bad Spider Man made the FF look in their initial encounter..lol...
Jinzin: but I posted another pic of the Human torch taking out SM..that gotta count for something in a debate that has nothing to do with SM vs the Human torch right...and Wolverine can cut through the webbing if his hands are webbed to his ass...quit putting words into my mouth..
sure jin...sure...lol...go ahead and scan some more pictures buddy..you seem to be good at at least doing that....BWAHAHAHAHA...erhem..ha...
Originally posted by whobdamandog
1. "All history must be considered" argument..Description: To the fanboy..this means that all stories that occured in the character's history should be allowed into the debate. This includes rediculous issues where Captain A is shown to take down a full powered Galactus..or DD is able to gauge how fast a space shuttle is moving in outer space by detecting the pulse rates of the crewmembers. These types of arguments are usually easily rebutted, by another equally rediculous argument..(ie But Spider Man beat Firelord, Spidey was rejected by Death..so he can't die..stuff like that)
Judging by the link that Creshosk gave, argument 1 has been proven..just have two more arguments too go... 😆 😆
Originally posted by whobdamandogYour strawman arguments are ridiculous. You exagerate our claims and then debate those leaving our actual arguments alone:
Judging by the link that Creshosk gave, argument 1 has been proven..just have two more arguments too go... 😆 😆
One entry found for straw man.
Main Entry: straw man
Function: noun
1 : a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted
2 : a person set up to serve as a cover for a usually questionable transaction
Originally posted by whobdamandogThis shows that you didn't even understand the reaon why those examples were shown in the first place.
rebuttal..
Spiderman was hypnotized. thus not fighting in character, thus not holding back.
I guess the only way that spiderman can win is by discarding things that have happened, Multiple times, being powered up or depowering his opponents.
What's morelikely to be a ridiculous argument? Something that happens few times or something that happens more times.
It is you who can't handle the truth, so you must discard it, pick and choose what suits you or invent your own.
"Spiderman was hypnotized. thus not fighting in character, thus not holding back."
Yeah and that means he was not using all of his abilities and was fighting slower, weaker, etc.
Seriously there is an excuse for everything here, I said Spider-man CAN and not HAS, knock out these characters with one hit. His stats show that he is more than capable, just as you say wolverine's neck cannot be broken.
Now that I think about it, I could have said Hulk has the ability to one punch these guys, and you still would have disagreed, saying it HASN'T happened.
The reasons these guys don't die as easily as they should in the fights you have mentioned, its 1 on 1, and no one wants to see a one punch, in a one vs. three it would be more likely to be shown, 1 because the character will have to eliminate the odds and take out the weak link right away.
Just like wrestling matches. There are many times a ridiculous character wins or lasts longer than they should because noone wants to see them last 10 seconds only.
Anyway, using only facts that only serve you, while i have CONSIDERED both sides of this is becoming tiresome, (strawman logic, no logic can be used, there will be no wall) shows you are taking this far out of Spidey's favor as possible. Give some decent scenario's of what REASONABLY can and will happen that would show brainwork. Showing this happened in #125 then showing this happened in #200 makes this go back and forth forever.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Spiderman was hypnotized. thus not fighting in character, thus not holding back.
Spider-Man still owned him...
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellWhy would he be fighting "weaker"?
"Spiderman was hypnotized. thus not fighting in character, thus not holding back."Yeah and that means he was not using all of his abilities and was fighting slower, weaker, etc.
He was not being held back by his morals as he wasn't fighting in character. He was not being held back.
Your argument makes no sense.
"He can knock them out but doesn't because he was holding back because of his morals."
"He was hypnotized so he wasn't fighting with his morals."
"He was fighting weaker because he wasn't using his spider senses."
Either his morals were the reason he was holding back or they or not.
In both cases with and without the morals with and without holding back he failed to knock them out.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellAnd it's been shown that he HAS NOT knocked them out even though he tried.
[B]Seriously there is an excuse for everything here, I said Spider-man CAN and not HAS, knock out these characters with one hit. His stats show that he is more than capable, just as you say wolverine's neck cannot be broken.
If you have not done something despite trying this shows that you probably can't do that thing.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellAnd what's your point?
Now that I think about it, I could have said Hulk has the ability to one punch these guys, and you still would have disagreed, saying it HASN'T happened.
You see this as a failing on the behalf of the KOer rather than a strength of the KOee?
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
The reasons these guys don't die as easily as they should in the fights you have mentioned, its 1 on 1, and no one wants to see a one punch, in a one vs. three it would be more likely to be shown, 1 because the character will have to eliminate the odds and take out the weak link right away.
"Because no one wants to see it!" including Marvel?
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Just like wrestling matches. There are many times a ridiculous character wins or lasts longer than they should because noone wants to see them last 10 seconds only.
Now we're arguing Wrestling versus comic books?
Then why do we see these characters take shots and hits from their opponents at all? Why don't they all just dodge. cause I'm sure no spiderman fan wants to see wolverine punch spiderman hard enough to send him flying into a wall. And yet. . . . it happened.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Anyway, using only facts that only serve you, while i have CONSIDERED both sides of this is becoming tiresome,
"Nobody can agree on his healing factor so let's just discard it. It's inconsistant anyway."
No sorry you do not get to play that card ESPECIALLY since you guys are the ones who are doing that.
"Oh I don't like that so it didn't happen"
"We'll use real world logic to say that he can punch through these peoples heads, and ignore the fact that in the real world a radioactive spider messing up his DNA would kill him!"
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellBecause you're unfairly trying to tip the scales in Spiderman's favor by attacking the person to discredit their arguments?
(strawman logic, no logic can be used, there will be no wall) shows you are taking this far out of Spidey's favor as possible.
Because you are using BAD logic to get what you want by discardiong the facts that don't agree with you?
It's sad that spiderman needs selective debating and half truths and lies in order to win . . .
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellAnd you have yet to show where SPIDERMAN knocked wolverine out with a punch. You've seen THREE times where he took Spiderpunches.
Give some decent scenario's of what REASONABLY can and will happen that would show brainwork. Showing this happened in #125 then showing this happened in #200 makes this go back and forth forever.
Originally posted by who?-kidAnd was spiderman holding back with his strength?
Hmm ? DD himself stated that Spider-Man was fighting like he was hypnotized, that Spider-Man was fighting slow, that he didn't use his senses, that he didn't dodge any blow.Spider-Man still owned him...
"Yes his morals held him back even though he was '"fighting like he was hypnotized'. . ."