Okay I'm back..I felt compelled to respond to this post...
Originally posted by Wanderer259
I almost whole-heartidly agree. If I were Cap or DD, I'd rather hold onto my weapons, as they're admittedly more effective at short-medium range.
True. Also, keep in mind that the wallcrawler generally fights from a distance when attacking opponents, as opposed to the Trio who generally accustomed to battles involving close-h2h combat. The Trio would be at a disadvantage if they attempted to fight in a "ranged attack" style, which is a style that SM is very experienced in.
I'm not being far-fetched, as this is a technique Cap employs on a regular basis - ricochet trick-shots ala Hawkeye with an arrow. Have you really never seen this done?
I've seen him constitently throw the shield, however, I've never seen him consistently throw it at an object and have it return to him with pinpoint accuracy. At best I would say that it is possible under normal circumstances for it to land somewhere in the general area of where the Captain is standing.
Getting the shield at that point would definately be an obstacle, seeing as how it is the Captain's main line of defense, and he would be very open to an attack upon himself if he attempted to retrieve it.
This is why it is highly improbable for Captain/DD to quickly relinquish their first line of offense against an opponent whose abilities are known to physically rival their own. Particularly in the areas of speed, reflexes, strength, and agility. I'm sure the great tactical mind of Captain A would realize that SM could easily evade most of their ranged attacks, and as you put it, their weapons would be more effective at "short-medium range", or as a means of defense. And I'm sure that the good Ol tactical mind of Captain A knows, that all it will take is one stray upulled punch from the webslinger..to take both him and the "Man without fear" completely out of the fray.
Whether or not the shield will 'pose a significant danger to Spidey' isn't an issue here, as his spider-sense picks up on everything, including tosses snowballs. If Peter, in his flawed, human-like discretion, decides that whatever he's feeling isn't worth dodging, he'll get winged in the head by a flying adamantium shield.
That's inaccurate. The Spider sense doesn't pick up everything..only things that pose the wall crawler some type of "danger." I'm not sure if snowballs would qualify as such.
Your desert scenario already made things worse against the trio.
To be honest I actually thought it would make it easier, seeing as how SM would not have any walls or buildings to stick to. However, you are more than welcome to give whatever setting you desire, and I'll incorporate it into any of my arguments that follow.
I've never seen him tag the goblin glider when it wasn't right there flying by. Bear in mind, a gigantic flying gargoyle, a plane, and a car are all much bigger, much less maneuverable targets than three nimble heroes.
Bigger yes, less maneuverable..no. The Gobin Glider moves at roughly 300 mph..and is highly maneuverable.
I'm not debating whether or not Logan can be hit. At a closer distance, Spider-Man very well can do so. However, at the distance you suggest, of 60 feet, I think he'll have a harder time.
Refer to the response above. I doubt that he will have any more difficulty snagging Wolverine/DD/or Cap than he would the Glider.
The question wasn't whether or not Spidey will be hit. It's whether or not he'll be fast enough to tug someone and then dodge. In order to evade, his focus will have been broken, allowing his target to escape.
Depends on where he's at...if he's 60 feet away, and manages to snag someone, I would take a gander at saying he's fast enough to dodge. And as Cordera mentioned earlier, he could very well use the person who he's tugging on as a defensive/offensive device to block an incoming attack.
No, no, pay attention. He has snagged someone with a 60 foot-long web-line. He has never just 'tossed' a car into the air with a web-line before. Ever. Were DD snagged by a line, Spidey could only tug him forward.
Pardon me for being rude, but it seems like you are being a bit misleading with this one..
I've never seen him snag a car, but I've seen him snag some pretty heavy objects. Regardless, the implication wasn't that a car would be tossed into the air with the webline in this particular argument, but instead it was that a member of the Trio could be tossed into the air rather effortlessly, based on the fact that SM has has strength that enables him to lift ..Cars, Tanks, Boulders, building structures etc, etc, with is bare hands. I believe you knew that to begin with, however, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Still who is to say that he couldn't easily snag a car and toss it fairly effortlessly with a webline and lob it? The weblines are strong enough to hold a ton, which is about the weight of a compact car. It's quite probable that a car/boulder/ or similar heavy object could be lobbed effectively as a long range attack against the Trio.
At a 60 foot distance? How is Spider-man going to completely web up anyone with one or two lines?
Snag them with a web line from 60 ft, tug them toward himself, and then change the consistency of the webbing into that of a spray. This is logical and probable, and would be acceptable under the "any means necessary" clause stipulated by the thread originator. :wink:
Better explained. Except that's as open to interpretation as Cap being 'faster on the draw' with tactical thinking.
Not necessarily, Both characters have proven the ability to be "quick on the draw" with tactical thinking during extenuating circumstances. I'd say SM does a better job thinking on the fly being a solo character, and Cap does better job thinking on the fly when working with a team. However unlike physical stats, tactical thinking can not be accurately measured or defined, seeing how it is an abstract concept.
At that great a distance? It's much harder. And if they are hit, all Spidey can do is yank or drag them towards him. He cannot toss them to either side nor jerk them up into the air. The web-line is similar to a steel cable, but not to a steel beam - the line is simply far too long. Not to mention, at that great of a distance, he cannot completely web anyone up.
If he's strong enough to lift a car over his head with his hands, then I'd take a stab at saying he is strong enough to lift a 200 lb man of the ground with a webline..