Originally posted by Scoobless
Wow i stopped reading after that because i just had to find out when Wolverine became psychic... so .... when was it?
He's always had enhanced reflexes. Combine that with his super senses, he has shown to be able to sense something and when it is coming. The Weapon X series explained how Wolverine is able to sense bullets going in slow motion.
Originally posted by batdude123
Yet, you don't think that Wolverine would be able to dodge a shield? He can sense it coming before Spider-man throws it. Not only that, the guy dodges bullets easily as well. Sometimes he doesn't, because they feel like mosquito bites to him, but he is definitely able to and has done so in the past. I'm not overrating Wolverine's speed at all. I was just going by what I read. Wolverine has also been shown to keep up with wild boars. Wild boars run anywhere from 40-50mph. Everyone dodges bullets in this fight dodges bullets easily. Cap can because the SSS allows him to see bullets in slow motion, same with Wolverine, and DD is just bordering on pre-cog just like Spider-man. In the past, they have all given Spider-man very good fights. Besides, when they were in a fight, Spider-man did NOT have time to use his webbing because if he knew that he did, he would've been gutted like a fish. It only takes one screw up on Spider-man's fault. Naturally, he can't afford to make any mistakes. That makes his margin of winning that much lower. Might be in trouble? All of these guys have given him trouble before. You might call it PIS, or whatever but it has happened in the past. Can you really call consistant feats PIS anyway? He could defeat these guys one on one, I know that. However, all three together? I don't think so. The trio takes this fight 6-7/10.
I don't know. He might be able to dodge a shield, but Spiderman throws with more force and speed than captain. His bios don't say anything about supernatural reflexes and speed. I guess all that matters is what is shown consistently on panel, but they do conflict each other. The only reason Spiderman might have trouble with Wolverine is the latter's agression. Really, Wolvie's speed and strength are several classes below him. He can also still be kayoed. Again, it all depends on environment and conditions whether Spiderman wins easily, barely, or not at all against these three. And I guess it also depends on the kind of attitude you're giving him before the fight starts, because Spiderman is one of those characters where a change in attitude can make the difference between sheer might and unfathomable stupidity.
Now, I never said anything about PIS. I think all three of them have faced Spiderman under acceptable conditions at the top of their game without the need of poor writing from their part. Unfortunately, it is Spiderman himself who's jobbing (and sometimes even CIS) to other characters. When Spiderman faces other popular characters, he curiously loses a lot of his powers, skills and abilities that he uses against higher powered beings. I think this is mostly Spiderman's own fault, as I see him as a noble adventurer rather than a classic super hero. He has experience, but also his personality working against him. Spiderman taking a beating from Daredevil or Captain America usually serves him right, because he can be reckless as hell.
I wanna ask a question. We all know Spidey holds back when he fights, but the same can be said for every hero. Anyhow, heres my question. When Spidey fought Wolvie in the graveyard and was punching him he said something along the lines of .."Im hitting him with everythig ive got.." Was he lying? He once fought Daredevil and said to himself like.."No matter how fast i am, i cant land a solid hit..." Was Spidey lying then as well?
When he fought Wolvie, he DIDNT hold back on strength and yet was unable to knock him out.
When he fought DD, he DIDNT hold back on his speed and yet was unable to land a solid hit to knock him out.
Why is it said that its always PIS or CIS?
Originally posted by jrodslam
I wanna ask a question. We all know Spidey holds back when he fights, but the same can be said for every hero. Anyhow, heres my question. When Spidey fought Wolvie in the graveyard and was punching him he said something along the lines of .."Im hitting him with everythig ive got.." Was he lying? He once fought Daredevil and said to himself like.."No matter how fast i am, i cant land a solid hit..." Was Spidey lying then as well?When he fought Wolvie, he DIDNT hold back on strength and yet was unable to knock him out.
When he fought DD, he DIDNT hold back on his speed and yet was unable to land a solid hit to knock him out.Why is it said that its always PIS or CIS?
cause if it isn't then SPIDEY GOD is faulable and the universe will collapse in the mind of many a fanboy...
Originally posted by Dinalfos
I don't know. He might be able to dodge a shield, but Spiderman throws with more force and speed than captain. His bios don't say anything about supernatural reflexes and speed. I guess all that matters is what is shown consistently on panel, but they do conflict each other. The only reason Spiderman might have trouble with Wolverine is the latter's agression. Really, Wolvie's speed and strength are several classes below him. He can also still be kayoed. Again, it all depends on environment and conditions whether Spiderman wins easily, barely, or not at all against these three. And I guess it also depends on the kind of attitude you're giving him before the fight starts, because Spiderman is one of those characters where a change in attitude can make the difference between sheer might and unfathomable stupidity.Now, I never said anything about PIS. I think all three of them have faced Spiderman under acceptable conditions at the top of their game without the need of poor writing from their part. Unfortunately, it is Spiderman himself who's [B]jobbing
(and sometimes even CIS) to other characters. When Spiderman faces other popular characters, he curiously loses a lot of his powers, skills and abilities that he uses against higher powered beings. I think this is mostly Spiderman's own fault, as I see him as a noble adventurer rather than a classic super hero. He has experience, but also his personality working against him. Spiderman taking a beating from Daredevil or Captain America usually serves him right, because he can be reckless as hell. [/B]
I am not comparing Wolverine's strength OR speed to Spider-man's. I am saying that they all are able to dodge things that are extremely fast, and Spider-man isn't the only one who would be able to block the oppositions blows. Wolverine does have enhanced reflexes. When he combine that with his super senses, yes he is able to do the stuff he has been shown to do. Spider-man can't KO Wolverine as easily as you're thinking. Wolverine takes class 100 hits and keeps on coming for more. Spider-man could only KO Wolverine if he would stand there and let Spider-man continue to pound on him. Obviously, Wolverine isn't going to do that. However, what Spider-man can do, is incapacitate Logan maybe 5-6/10. However, he has got two other opponents to worry about. If you are talking about using them at full potential (all of them), then Spider-man would be overwhelmed.
Originally posted by jrodslam
I wanna ask a question. We all know Spidey holds back when he fights, but the same can be said for every hero. Anyhow, heres my question. When Spidey fought Wolvie in the graveyard and was punching him he said something along the lines of .."Im hitting him with everythig ive got.." Was he lying? He once fought Daredevil and said to himself like.."No matter how fast i am, i cant land a solid hit..." Was Spidey lying then as well?When he fought Wolvie, he DIDNT hold back on strength and yet was unable to knock him out.
When he fought DD, he DIDNT hold back on his speed and yet was unable to land a solid hit to knock him out.Why is it said that its always PIS or CIS?
Good point. 😆 👆
Originally posted by jrodslam
I wanna ask a question. We all know Spidey holds back when he fights, but the same can be said for every hero. Anyhow, heres my question. When Spidey fought Wolvie in the graveyard and was punching him he said something along the lines of .."Im hitting him with everythig ive got.." Was he lying? He once fought Daredevil and said to himself like.."No matter how fast i am, i cant land a solid hit..." Was Spidey lying then as well?When he fought Wolvie, he DIDNT hold back on strength and yet was unable to knock him out.
When he fought DD, he DIDNT hold back on his speed and yet was unable to land a solid hit to knock him out.Why is it said that its always PIS or CIS?
Is daredevil lying here?
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6749565
As for Wolvie, he's more durable than Spidey. That's a fact. But Spidey has swatted Wolverine aside like your little sister's Guinea pig during the Secret Wars.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Is daredevil lying here?http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6749565
Good question. I would say yes DD is lying because, right after that initial hit, Spidey couldnt land another hand on DD. Did Spidey slow down or did DD speed up?
Secondly, in about 95% of their encounters, Spidey has failed to ko DD and has struggled to even hit him at times. Thats what i can use to back my statement.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Good question. I would say yes DD is lying because, right after that initial hit, Spidey couldnt land another hand on DD. Did Spidey slow down or did DD speed up?Secondly, in about 95% of their encounters, Spidey has failed to ko DD and has struggled to even hit him at times. Thats what i can use to back my statement.
That's funny, because that hit should've K.O'd him like any other regular person. If Daredevil and the like have superhuman durability, then Marvel should say so. Either way, Daredevil was on to something when he said he could barely keep track of him, as it makes more sense than the other way around.
You should also remember that this battle is supposed to be PISless. And yes, Spidey having trouble hitting and kayoeing Daredevil, is PIS. Spidey getting his ass handed to him when he's fooling around is not.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
That's funny, because that hit should've K.O'd him like any other regular person. If Daredevil and the like have superhuman durability, then Marvel should say so. Either way, Daredevil was on to something when he said he could barely keep track of him, as it makes more sense than the other way around.You should also remember that this battle is supposed to be PISless. And yes, Spidey having trouble hitting and kayoeing Daredevil, is PIS. Spidey getting his ass handed to him when he's fooling around is not.
Why do you say that hit should ahve ko'd him? Spidey didnt land the full hit. Daredevil doesnt have superhuman durability. Its just that Spidey hardly ever lands solid hits on him.
I know this fight is PISless. Daredevil knows what Spidey is going to do before he even does it. THATS why Spidey cant land the hits. Its not PIS or CIS. Spidey isnt the Flash. You have to take into consideration that when Daredevil says he can barely keep track of him. Key word is "barely". DD always tries to stay 1 move ahead. Thats why hes so good at dodging and rolling with hits.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Why do you say that hit should ahve ko'd him? Spidey didnt land the full hit. Daredevil doesnt have superhuman durability. Its just that Spidey hardly ever lands solid hits on him.I know this fight is PISless. Daredevil knows what Spidey is going to do before he even does it. THATS why Spidey cant land the hits. Its not PIS or CIS. Spidey isnt the Flash. You have to take into consideration that when Daredevil says he can barely keep track of him. Key word is "barely". DD always tries to stay 1 move ahead. Thats why hes so good at dodging and rolling with hits.
I don't think Spidey would try to land solid hits on him. It would kill him. But if Daredevil can only "barely" keep track of him, he'd still be in trouble. I can easily keep track of my sparring partner, yet if he hits me I'm going to feel it. Now imagine what would happen if I was hit by someone at least 25 times stronger than him. So Daredevil has heightened senses, but how can you really beat speed, strength, agility AND a true sixth sense? He might get a win under certain circumstances in comic books, but, considering both their abilities, Daredevil should stand no chance. And I'm not saying this because I hate Daredevil, because I really don't. Quite the contrary.
Originally posted by batdude123
Come on, Spider-man has trouble with anyone of those guys by themselves. Putting them all together means that Spider-man isn't going to win.
It depends on the type of Spiderman you're facing. Good old, Friendly neighboorhood Spidey the "I-act-before-I-think" adventurer has trouble beating everybody. But there's a different side to Spiderman. When the situation calls for it, he can be one of the smartest, skillful and admirable superheroes ever.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
I don't think Spidey would try to land solid hits on him. It would kill him. But if Daredevil can only "barely" keep track of him, he'd still be in trouble. I can easily keep track of my sparring partner, yet if he hits me I'm going to feel it. Now imagine what would happen if I was hit by someone at least 25 times stronger than him. So Daredevil has heightened senses, but how can you really beat speed, strength, agility AND a true sixth sense? He might get a win under certain circumstances in comic books, but, considering both their abilities, Daredevil should stand no chance. And I'm not saying this because I hate Daredevil, because I really don't. Quite the contrary.
You keep leaving out the fact that solid hits from Spidey would NOT kill DD. Unless Spidey is punching with full strength ofcourse. Spidey DOES try to land solid hits on DD. Not solid hits that would kill him, but solid hits that would knock him out. He just cant do it.
You say how can DD beat speed, strength and agility and a "true sixth sense"? Easily. Spideys speed is nulled. Why? Because hed never land a solid enough hit to cause the damage such as a knockout. Speed is dampened because hes not catching DD off guard like he would someone else. Daredevil knows when Spideys going to throw a punch, kick or jump. That alone allows for hit top dodge Spideys hits in time. That along with his peak human reflexes, allows for him to stay in a fight with Spidey.
DD's "radar and senses" are TRUE senses. He knows the move is comig via heart jumps which comes BEFORE the move. He listens to muscles in the arm or leg to know a punch or kick is on the way. He knows where the hit is going to end up which also helps him in rolling with it.
His senses are just uber. They kinda nullify Spideys abilities in a vs match.
Originally posted by jrodslam
You keep leaving out the fact that solid hits from Spidey would NOT kill DD. Unless Spidey is punching with full strength ofcourse. Spidey DOES try to land solid hits on DD. Not solid hits that would kill him, but solid hits that would knock him out. He just cant do it.You say how can DD beat speed, strength and agility and a "true sixth sense"? Easily. Spideys speed is nulled. Why? Because hed never land a solid enough hit to cause the damage such as a knockout. Speed is dampened because hes not catching DD off guard like he would someone else. Daredevil knows when Spideys going to throw a punch, kick or jump. That alone allows for hit top dodge Spideys hits in time. That along with his peak human reflexes, allows for him to stay in a fight with Spidey.
DD's "radar and senses" are TRUE senses. He knows the move is comig via heart jumps which comes BEFORE the move. He listens to muscles in the arm or leg to know a punch or kick is on the way. He knows where the hit is going to end up which also helps him in rolling with it.
His senses are just uber. They kinda nullify Spideys abilities in a vs match.
Spiderman's speed is nulled? Is that what would happen without PIS? Seriously, I do understand where you're coming from, but it just makes no sense. peak human speed and agility + heightened senses >> Superhuman speed + sixth sense + superhuman strength + superhuman agility? I don't think so. Are Daredevil's sense really so strong that he can overcome someone's vastly superhuman reflexes? Does he have the physique required to respond to something like that? He may know the move is coming, but Spiderman senses Daredevil's counter attack long before it can hit him. And with his far superior speed he has plenty of time to hit back.
And I'm not even talking about his webbings.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Spiderman's speed is nulled? Is that what would happen without PIS? Seriously, I do understand where you're coming from, but it just makes no sense. peak human speed and agility + heightened senses >> Superhuman speed + sixth sense + superhuman strength + superhuman agility? I don't think so. Are Daredevil's sense really so strong that he can overcome someone's vastly superhuman reflexes? Does he have the physique required to respond to something like that? He may know the move is coming, but Spiderman senses Daredevil's counter attack long before it can hit him. And with his far superior speed he has plenty of time to hit back.And I'm not even talking about his webbings.
Yes Spidermans speed and strength are nulled. Without PIS.
Nullified - 1. To make null; invalidate.
2. To counteract the force or effectiveness of.
Spiderman CANT land efficiant hits to knock DD out. Even IF he used full strength. Thus Spidermans strength is nulled aka less effective.
You ask if DD's senses are really that strong. Yes they are. Namor and Hulk have hard times knocking him out. Why? Cause they cant land their hits effectively.
Daredevils speed and reflexes are not to be overloked. Spiderman himself commented on how fast Daredevil was. Ofcourse naturally Spidey IS fater, but what good is the extra speed if he cant use it effectively? Thus is gets SLIGHTLY nulled. Daredevil still has to stay focused because of Spideys speed. And like he always says, "if Spidey lands a solid hit, its over for me.".
Spideys senses could/would pick up on the/some counterattacks, but they can be overloaded and cause hit to get hit.
Webbing would probably be useless.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Yes Spidermans speed and strength are nulled. Without PIS.Nullified - 1. To make null; invalidate.
2. To counteract the force or effectiveness of.Spiderman CANT land efficiant hits to knock DD out. Even IF he used full strength. Thus Spidermans strength is nulled aka less effective.
You ask if DD's senses are really that strong. Yes they are. Namor and Hulk have hard times knocking him out. Why? Cause they cant land their hits effectively.
Daredevils speed and reflexes are not to be overloked. Spiderman himself commented on how fast Daredevil was. Ofcourse naturally Spidey IS fater, but what good is the extra speed if he cant use it effectively? Thus is gets SLIGHTLY nulled. Daredevil still has to stay focused because of Spideys speed. And like he always says, "if Spidey lands a solid hit, its over for me.".
Spideys senses could/would pick up on the/some counterattacks, but they can be overloaded and cause hit to get hit.
Webbing would probably be useless.
He can land an efficient hit. I hate referring to PIS, but yes, he can. It's just that nobody likes to see Daredevil hit the curb. They'd like the underdog to win against the more powerful character. It happens with Spiderman too, occasionally. And both Namor and Hulk are a LOT slower than Spiderman. Namor can fly at high speeds, but he doesn't have the agility and reflexes. Eventhough it shouldn't really matter. A character like Murdock just can't win a non-PISed fight against Namor. He is way too versatile for someone with only borderline supernatural abilities. It's just ridiculous. Senses only get you so far.
As for the spider sense, yes it has its weaknesses. But I doubt Daredevil has what it takes to overload it. He may find a way to use it against Spidey with a little preptime, but its effectiveness shouldn't be underestimated. It's mostly instinct based and it can sense "danger" from quite a distance. Spiderman is going to be prepared for Daredevil, if he fights normally. Now, I'm sure webbing can also assist him in the fight. It's a lot faster than people think and he isn't just limited to firing one shot at a time. If Spidey went to attack Daredevil in full combination with his webbing and his own speed, Daredevil might find it rather difficult to fight him.