Originally posted by Scoobless
if you believe Wolverine can take Spidey solo then are you also saying he can gut Cap solo?.... i'm just asking as Spidey is way faster, stronger.... blah, blah, blah, physically superior in every way, etc, etc when compared to Cap.....do [B]YOU
believe Wolvy would have no trouble against Cap? [/B]
Well, this is what I said in that very forum:
Originally posted by Capt.JK
Captain America would win this one, but it would be a helluva battle. These two have a begrudging respect for one another, and have tangled on numerous occasions. If they both went all out, I think Cap's slightly superior fighting ability, calmer approach to the fight, and his ability to gauge the strengths and weaknesses of his opponent and use them to his advantage would win in the end.But I take nothing from Wolverine. This would be one fight that would definitely send Cap to the infirmary when it was all over.
Any questions?
Yea, sorry, Capt.JK. You just kinda unproved your point there. By saying that Cap could take Wolverine, while Wolverine apparently can take Spiderman, who is far superior to him in basically everyway except durability, completely goes against what you've been saying.
I won't lie and say that you haven't made some good points. But for the most part, I don't agree with you. I still stand by my very previous posts that Spiderman would win. I never said it would be easy though.
Originally posted by X-Logan
I didn´t say spidey is slower than a couple of men with guns...I´m just saying that Logan is very fast and has enough agility to hit spider man.
as I show,those guys didn´t even see Logan´s arms cutting their weapons.
And yes,tha Spider Man vs Wolverine series takes place on marvel continuity.
And you act as though Spidey would just stand there and dodge away, there's a little thing called aerial combat, something Spidey is quite experienced in. I mean, c'mon, when you have guys like the Vulture, and multiple Goblins in your rogue's gallery you'd have to be. Spidey could strike him from so many different angles in the air and on the ground (you think Spidey's going to stand there and let Wolvie swing away without taking a shot?) Spidey being the faster one of the two does makes a difference in pretty much any sort of combat style.
And all of a sudden a mutant in peak condition is supposed to swing his arms at blurring speeds? Please don't tell me you buy into that. And even if you do, it doesn't change the fact that Wolvie were dealing with your everyday gunmen, Spidey is no everyday gunman. He's no everyday man period. He's waaayyy more than human in pretty much every aspect. Wolvie, in every aspect shy of endurance and durability, is not.
And I wasn't talking about any Spidey/Wolverine series fight when I was referring to the fight that did not take place in Marvel continuity, I was referring to their fight in Berlin.
Originally posted by Capt.JK
First of all, anyone who knows anything about Captain America, including those folks over at Marvel, think you're an absolute nutjob if you actually believe your first statement. Captain America is, once again, [B]ALWAYS chosen to be the leader of every group he is a member of (Avengers, New Avengers, the Invaders, all of the Secret Wars, DC vs. Marvel, JLA vs. the Avengers, etc., etc., etc...), BECAUSE he is the BEST LEADER, BEST PLANNER, and the BEST COMMANDER UNDER FIRE. How you can read Marvel comics and NOT know this is completely beyond me, and I would suspect everyone else who reads anything besides Spider-Man, which evidently you don't, as evidenced by your moronic statements.Secondly, I wasn't talking about movie Spidey vs. comic book Spidey, or cartoon network Spidey or MTV Spidey or the Electric Company Spidey or the crazy guy at the bus station who thinks he's Spidey or my 3 year old son who likes to run around in his Spidey pajamas... I was talking about the character in general. There are no "pure bred facts" about any of this, because SPIDER-MAN IS NOT REAL! SPIDER-MAN IS AN IDEA CREATED BY STAN LEE! HE DOES NOT EXIST! That is what I meant. That being said, none of these characters exist. They are all fake. There are no "pure bred facts" to draw from, EXCEPT the ones published by the owners and creators of the characters themselves. And they deemed Wolverine more than capable of running his claws clean up Spider-Man's ass. All of your whining and ranting and delusional comments can't and won't change that. Discussion over. [/B]
ALOT of the things that Spidey pulls off with his strength, speed, reflexes, and agility alone in comics if not all of them complement the abilties were written to have. Oh go ahead, say these characters aren't real, and then, try telling me something I don't know. Bottom line: Spidey was written to have superhuman strength, agility, reflexes, etc. and the lifting, dodging, running, etc. feats he pulls off in comics are a testiment to this.
And you can't seem to grasp that if Wolvie has trouble healing an eye after it's been pulled out and eaten for six issues or so and is too slow to avoid it then then the chances of him hitting and even being capable of catching with a low-end speedster with reflexes heightened by pre-cog and metahuman regenerative endurance to *keep on* bobbing and weaving with some of the best opposition Marvel has to offer (ever heard of Hulk? How about the FF?) are redicoulously low, but again, if you don't want to accept it you're welcome to your opinion.
Originally posted by Capt.JK
Anything else you'd like me to shoot down while you're trying to dodge those pics of Wolverine gutting your favorite wallcrawler all by his lonesome? 😮💨💃
Yeah a couple of things...
The fact that the Trio would not be able to take SM by "Surprise" when he's paying attention to his Spider Sense(as mentioned in the caption of the "historical" reference, try reading the text inside the picture next time..)..which he will be doing in this scenario...
The fact that one "unpulled" punch from SM will take down both Cap and DD..
The fact that Cap/Wolvie/DD have never at any time ran circles around the Hulk...
Oh yeah and the ever so pertinent fact that Spider Man...
Originally posted by Capt.JK
..could conceivably defeat any one of these guys alone..
Shoot down those arguments Cap'n...and try not to forget what you yourself have stated this time...I mean..I'd really hate to see you contradict yourself once again... 😆😆
The banana's still dancing...lol... 😆💃
Originally posted by whobdamandog
I'm gonna go out and get every single comic where Spidey has schooled Wolverine, made DD run for his life, or outmaneuvered the Captain..(there's a long list so it may take a while), then scan it and act as if its the gospel on these characters...then I'll...oh forget it..I don't have that much free time on my hands...lol....
Spidey isnt looking so tough here. 💃
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Yea, sorry, Capt.JK. You just kinda unproved your point there. By saying that Cap could take Wolverine, while Wolverine apparently can take Spiderman, who is far superior to him in basically everyway except durability, completely goes against what you've been saying.I won't lie and say that you haven't made some good points. But for the most part, I don't agree with you. I still stand by my very previous posts that Spiderman would win. I never said it would be easy though.
My statement doesn't disprove or disagree with anything I've said in this thread or the Wolverine vs. Captain America thread. I stated way back in the beginning that I thought Spidey could probably win against just one of the trio, but never all three at once. I still agree with that statement. The difference is I DON'T disavow the MU comics as you Spidey fans do. Not once have you ever read a post from me (or any of the other guys on "my side"😉 screaming "bad writing" or "that writer is just a fanboy of such-and-such". When new information or pics or stories are added to the MU lexicon, I look at it and then add that to my stand on the subject.
And facts is facts, guys; Wolverine, in continuity and regular storyline, ran his claws clean through Spider-Man's gut before the webhead could react. Stop whining and deal with it.
And DareDevil has and will always continue to be as good or better then Spidey its been proven over the years. DareDevil will never ever completely back down unless beaten into submission a feat your hero has yet to complete on any of these three from the trio and logically he could never beat all three at once and they could never react well at once against him. Wolverine and DareDevil arent team players and Captain America is too bossy and they will each use their own strategies, all that are excellent in each hero's way to defeat him.
The person who came up with this thread obviously knows that spiderman is capable of beating all three at once at least 1 out of 10 times if not more if he didn't he would not have made the thread. Secondly out of the four characters, honestly who has the best shot a beating the other three at the same time?
Originally posted by python99
The person who came up with this thread obviously knows that spiderman is capable of beating all three at once at least 1 out of 10 times if not more if he didn't he would not have made the thread.
Either that or the person truly hates Spidey, and wants him to get his a$$ handed to him.
Originally posted by python99
The person who came up with this thread obviously knows that spiderman is capable of beating all three at once at least 1 out of 10 times if not more if he didn't he would not have made the thread. Secondly out of the four characters, honestly who has the best shot a beating the other three at the same time?
AHHHHHH HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!
Your naivety is truly amusing. Even more amusing is your high opinion of your fellow human beings. I refer you to the Superman vs. Wolverine thread(s).
"Okay, so you've just explained that Spidey has already bested a smart Lizard, Chamelion, Doc Ock, Vulture, Sandman, Electro, the FF, and Doctor Doom yet you're still led to believe that underestimation would lead Spidey to performing so poorly against organized humans? Uh-huh."
strawnilla you silly child, I'm not led to believe this....this is what actually happened....in the comic. lol. It's not my opinion it's what actually happened to spiderman nuff said.
"Not to critcize or anything, but Cap being the strategist that he is doesn't protect him from being blitzed by Spidey."
perhaps not, but his sheild will.....and has.
"You really sound lopsided in your views. You have admitted that Spidey's fought enemies that would make any average group of street thugs look like school children yet their *minimal* experience and teamwork put Parker on the run? I don't understand what would make you think that way."
Again I don't just think this way.....this is what actually happened. I don't know what would make you think that the trio can't defeat spidey when they each give him a good run on their own.
"Wondering how this changes the fact that Spidey came back and trumped the Enforcers in their second battle.*"
It doesn't, I never said spiderman couldn't take down the enforcers, I just said that the enforcers were able to give spiderman a hell of a run for his money for 3 above average street thugs....and they did. The second time they fought just proves more of my point. Montana further lassoed spidey (2 or 3 times), fancy dan again gotta couple hits in, and ox pounded spidey several blows as well. Wolverine would dismantle these guys in seconds, so would cap, DD might take a minute. These guys gave spiderman a decent bout without experience, a master tactician, the fighting skills of the trio, or any powers whatsoever, or even peak human speed, strength or durability. Now you add all of that in combined with the character's given histories.....yeah spidey's in trouble.
Anyway's since the cap vs. spiderman comic came up again....lets clear a few things up. yeah cap hit spidey once, yeah spidey didn't want to hurt him, but in turn cap didn't want to hurt spiderman either. You guys totally misconstrewed why this was brought up in the 1st place. Strawnilla was utterly convinced that no one at street level speed could ever possibly hit spiderman, then the cover was shown to display how spiderman would be dodging everythin cap threw at him, then straw went on to say something like "and did spiderman kick cap around in that comic...I think so!" (proving that once again he has no idea what the hell he's talking about). the point is this I have no idea if you've actually read the comic, or if you just read reviews for it on the net or what not but spiderman went after cap. Cap kept trying to get spiderman the hell out of the vacinity and then spidey blew his cool cause no one was showing him any respect, he throws several punches at cap, which cap easily blocks with his sheild and then gets socked in the face. Not only was a street level character able to hit him,,,but he knocked spidey on his ass, and then spiderman commented on the power of the punch. Even the captions above tell how unimpressed cap is with spiderman, that he's fought stronger, better opponents than spiderman and always won. take that however you want, you may think it's open to interpretation....I don't. spiderman had something to prove, he may not have wanted to injure cap but he was definitely planning on getting his respect and coming out of that bout the better man, only,,,,he got a lesson in humility instead. You say it wasn't a fight, but you bring up secret wars (which was even less of a fight, the surprised and confused x-men were just trying to stop spiderman not beat him up.). I really don't get what's so hard about this even spiderman had said "he's captain america, he always finds a way!", that's his thing, saying that cap doesn't think on his feet in battle situations as good as cap just displayes (AGAIN) how little you (straw) actually know about the characters in question.
"What about that graveyard "epic" where Spidey is ON TOP of Wolvie, pounding him in the face? Wait, no, that wasn't a win because regardless of Wolvie being incapable of doing anything about it, he still smiled about it."
straw you're friggin ridiculous kid.
Now onto the wolverine thing, the idea that spiderman can't KO wolvie with a single (or even a flurry of em for that matter) punch is what's laughable due to wolvie's smiling back at spiderman, the reason why we think that wolverine had the points won in that battle was because he hit spiderman in the face without his claws out, even without going all out he secured a stalemate with spiderman by the end of it. Now had you read the comic you would no that-- A) it IS in continuity, and B) saying wolverine couldn't do anything about it is wrong since that fight ended with wolverine on top of spiderman. And while we're on THAT subject, why would wolverine or any of these trio members have a problem hiting spiderman even though the enforcers a bunch of regular guys were each able to lay their mitts on him?
"But you still are admitting that Wolvie could not backhand Spidey that far right?"
Again, what part of the fight posted wasn't fair? unless of course you mean it wasn't fair since spiderman attacked logan from behind, while logan was in a croutching position.....and still got backhanded. lol.
"And when has Wolvie not been written to expect an easy battle with someone who's not Sabertooth or Juggernaut?"
why don't you actually READ some comics then you tell us.
"I love how you try to gloss over the fact that Wolvie does not have
superhuman strength and therefore in fact could not have pulled away from that webbing so fast, not to mention to fast for Spidey."
too bad wolverine IN FACT did pull away from the webbing huh straw?
Hell even daredevil a given spidey a couple good whoopins, maybe never securing victories, but always able to hold his own for a while. Spider sense aside, DD was beatin the crap out of spiderman (who even pointed out that despite his spider strength DD was making him look like a rank ameature), Even after webbing up one of DD's arms, dd was still able to bounce around and kick spiderman in the face.
The thing is nobody thinks a punch from these guys can do much to spiderman but your wrong. in XMA a test was done and they found out that decent martial artists can put 2000 pounds of pressure per sq inch into a blow (more force exhurted than in most car wrecks) now given the facts that the trio is comprised of stronger faster more experienced characters than the ordinary humans in the program, a punch from them isn't going to feel too good at all spider strength or not. Wolverine has even been able to KO a guy in a fist fight that was 2 or 3 times physically stronger than spiderman. Him sending spidey flying with a backhand could have an easy explaination....balance. Iv'e been in martial arts since I was four and from experience I know that if you catch a person off their balance, you can send them flying, but if they are prepared and in a good stance with their weight shifted well they can take the same blow without so much as a budge. Spiderman's spider strength doesn't change the fact that he's still only a 150 to 170 pounds. Wolverine's tossed a dumpster from one side of the ally to another, a backhand sending a teenaged size body flying isn't that far off.
"I guess we should take the high-end showings of quite possibly the most inconsistent and overrated character in the MU for pure bred fact and forget that Spidey has a vertical leaping distance of 30 ft or more, the ability to lift *press* 10 tons and more, durability to take being thrown through a brick wall and dent a steel door when thrown into it "
It's pretty simple straw, you want us to take in all the high end showing of your character while neglecting all of the past showings where these guys (or anyone else for that matter) gives spiderman a run for his money. funny how actual accounts of comic showings only get counted by you when it suites your argument.
"Now if your argument rings true..and with this being a random battle..no prep involved...explain why Spidey will not handle the Trio the same way as he did the X-men(including Wolvie) below.."
because A) all of these are characters that know spiderman and his fighting style way better than the x-men in question at that given time. B) all of these guys have more experience than the x-men at that given time. C) spidey won't be dropping in on a bunch of surprised individuals. D) The trio has better leadership and teamwork abilities due to their leader than the x-men in question. E) Those x-men weren't trying to hurt spiderman just stop him, the trio won't be so generous. and F) "he's captain america he always finds a way!" lol.
"Oh and then after you explain that...explain to me why Spidey can easily outmaneuver the Hulk...but then not be able to avoid an attack from 3 opponents much slower than him...(*note refer to the picture below)"
Depends on which Hulk vs. spiderman battle you want to discuss, The picture you used isn't even from an actual fight but rather spiderman bragging about his own abilities in an anniversary special, that's even less credible than a what if comic. If we were to go by braggings as "pure bred facts" (as straw would say) then apocalypse would own thanos' ass. lol. Now when spidey first tangled with hulk in amazing spiderman 119 and 120, all spidey did was run away, when he got in close he got grabbed by the ankle and slammed on his tukus. Then in another spiderman/hulk fight, amazing spiderman 381 and 382 he out manuevered Hulk for just a while getting hits in here or there. Eventually hulk got tired of it and just thunderclapped spiderman into submission. Just to clarify.....Hulk hit spiderman in both of those battles and spiderman can't bound around hulk as implied in that picure, when he gets in close and starts to hit the hulk he usually gets smashed for his troubles, he's more suites for running away getting in and placing in 2 or 3 hits then getting the **** out before he gets clobbered. The trio's got 3 bodies instead of just one big one. for the rest of my "why the trio would hit spidey" I defer to my enforcers argument.
"there's a little thing called aerial combat, something Spidey is quite experienced in. I mean, c'mon, when you have guys like the Vulture'
lol once again vulture owned spideys ass in quote unquote aerial combat. and that was when vulture was old.
"And I wasn't talking about any Spidey/Wolverine series fight when I was referring to the fight that did not take place in Marvel continuity, I was referring to their fight in Berlin."
As I said, this did take place in continuity, if you read spiderman comics and knew so much about him as you think you do, why don't you know this? hmmmmmmmmmmm interesting, it's sad enough you don't know jack about the trio's characters, the fact that you don't even know about the character you're trying to defend,,,,well that's just pathetic. Now tell me why oh why would the berlin fight be in spiderman continuity. If you don't know you prove my point that you don't know jack, if you do know than you have to concent that this fight IS in continuity (which it is), wolverine can stalemate spidey on his own.
"The fact that one "unpulled" punch from SM will take down both Cap and DD.."
not really facts until they happen huh? My point; the enforcer ox was probably about peak human strength but had no superpowers (even so i'd venture to say that cap is stronger and more durable than ox because he's peak everything with DD not being far behind), spiderman even said he enjoyed hitting ox because he didn't have to pull his punches. The berlin fight- spiderman hits an already dying woman with everything he's got by the end of his fight with wolvie and it's enough to kill her....but it still takes some time before she dies. For people who don't know how anyone could survive, I defer to XMA, another test was done where it was deduced that martial artists' bones and muscles are hardened through years of combat into a virtual living armor. Considering these same bones and muscles could keep ribs from breaking against a blow that had more force than a car wreck in the real world, the spiderman killing dd and cap with one unpulled punch theory loses a bit of validity on this one.
"The fact that Cap/Wolvie/DD have never at any time ran circles around the Hulk...'
Incredible Hulk 182, 345, 425....read em. wolvie can dance around hulk when he wants to.
Oh and just for the record I agree with Capt.JK that wolverine should be able to hold his own against spidey, but he'll probably lose to the cap, it's just the way the characters are.
Oh just for the record again. Spidey's backhanded wolvie and webbed him up in two non fights, while Wolverine has run spiderman through, backhanded him in return, and fought him to a stalemate without his claws out to secure a victory. hmmmmmmm.
lol. well I'm done shooting down all of these spiderman "FACTS" lol, gnight,,,,morning,,,whatever it is.
"IT'S PEANUT BUTTAH JELLEH TIME!" 💃
you are sayin that spiderman can't dance around the hulk? The fact that spierman will get hit is understandable. What good would comics be if there are heroes who can't be hurt or even touched? The writer and artist of the book made the comics that way for a reason. Spiderman gets hurt by thugs , Spiderman gets hit by the hulk, its all done for a reason. People who love and hate certain characters do not want to see their favorites get crushed all the time they want to see them win. The writers write what they think comic readers want to see examples: spidey beats hulk, hulk beats spidey,spidey beats wolverine, wolerine beats spidey,cap beats spidey ,spidey beats cap its all happend. I guarantee you that wolverine and the Captain have even had trouble with street thugs, and the hulk gets his ass whooped by people he should destroy. Its all what the writer feels this is why things happen both ways. so why bring up what you see ? bring up both sides I guarantee you will see simularities. You only see this in the comics.
I am not saying that spiderman will beat the 3 10/10 times . I am saying that he can do it at least once because that is the writers views.
I am sure that out of all the 4 spidey has the best chance of beating the other 3 not cap,wolerine,or daredevil. The X-men were just an example prepared or not they were the x-men they fought dr doom, magneto , and sentinals. But they have trouble with spidey. The writer knows what spidey is capable of "dancing around the enemies"
did i say that spiderman can't dance around Hulk? no, so don't imply that I did. I just ment that sooner or later he's gonna get smashed. I get that the writers have to make things interesting, and when they do they shape to respective histories of these characters. hence, any one of the trio can give spidey a run for his money. You'll never find me post a retort that's as half assed as"it was crap writing" I just won't do it, but the point remains, on average for this fight, given the characters past showings and respective histories, spidey gets his ass handed. I'll agree he CAN win 1 out of 10 maybe even 2 or if he's reeeeeeeeally lucky 3 but on average, the trio kicks his butt. and the x-men had trouble with spidey for a number of reasons which have already been explained, but I'm impressed assuming you had the fortitude to read through that entire thing, well done.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Yeah a couple of things...The fact that the Trio would not be able to take SM by "Surprise" when he's paying attention to his Spider Sense(as mentioned in the caption of the "historical" reference...
Why not? You and 'strawnilla' both seem to assume that this fight takes place in an area favorable to Spider-Man or of his choosing. With Cap at the helm, this ain't gonna happen, fellas. Cap's strategy will obviously include hemming in the wallcrawler so his agility and webswinging abilities will be hindered. Even I thought of that, and I haven't been the world's perfect soldier since WW2. The concept and execution seems like an easy thing to write for even a novice comic writer.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
The fact that one "unpulled" punch from SM will take down both Cap and DD..
Well, yeah, it'll hurt, but he has to connect first. Cap and DD are much better hand-to-hand combatants than Spider-Man, despite all of Parker's jumping and flipping around. All three of the trio are HIGHLY skilled martial artists, some of the best in Marvel, so they're not just going to stand around like Rocky and asked to be punched in the face. Get real.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
The fact that Cap/Wolvie/DD have never at any time ran circles around the Hulk...
See, here is where you display what those of us backing the trio have been saying all along. Your lack of real knowledge and ignorance about the characters you're arguing against simply reveals your total Spidey-fanboyism for what it really is. I will let the Wolverine and DareDevil fans cite and quote issues for you to refer to, but as for Captain America, I'll let you check out an issue that you can probably still find on your local comics newsstand: CAPTAIN AMERICA & the FALCON No. 12, April 2005 "Brothers & Keepers, Part 5 of 5" - Captain America, by himself, fights, dodges and comes out the winner against the Hulk, M.O.D.O.K., and a bunch of overzealous machine gunners, all at the same time, while Falcon is off getting laid. All in a day's work for the Star Spangled Avenger.
Then you try and twist my words around, but that won't work either, because I have never said that I didn't think Spider-Man could possibly win in a one-on-one against any one of these heroes. But this is not a one-on-one thread; it's a three-against-one.
Spider-Man loses this one badly. We have evidence as published by Marvel Comics. You have a lot of ranting and raving and Toby Maguire fanboyism. Go get an autograph; leave the real discussions to the real fans.
lol. go cap!...we should be buds.
anyways i forgot that wolverine fought speed demon and dropped him in two panals with an elbow to the throat. speedy got up and recovered immediately (don't ask how, if I got hit in the throat with the equivalent of a crowbar i don't think I'd be getting up for a week.) but even then wolverine outsmarted him at his own game and used his speed against him.
Spiderman on the other hand needed an entire issue to deal with speed demon...this tells me two things....first, for all of spidey's creativity with the abilities he has and for all his powers, he still can't compensate for not having top notch fighting ability. Due to his fighting ability wolverine flattened speed demon by anticiapting where he was gonna be before he got there. someone (straw I think) said that spiderman's fighting ability is better than the trios because he uses instincts and his powers alone....aside from the fact that wolvie and cap have always statistically displayed better fighting ability period, this blows that theory out of the water.
This also tells me that while spidey may be able to think on his feet in battle wolverine is either as good or better at doing the same. Implying that spiderman can think on his feet in given battle situations better than wolverine is debateable, implying that he can do so better'n cap is just plain stupid.