Originally posted by Metalmanx
...I have no other choice but to acquiesce to your argument. Spiderman, although able to defeat the three individually pretty well, would not be able to defeat all three at once...Spiderman would not be able to defeat all three (Wolverine, DareDevil, and Captain America) all at once.
YESSS!!! We humbly accept your conversion. Welcome to the winning team.
Originally posted by Linkalicious
getting his butt kicked by the sinister six? 😕Spiderman was never able to take on the Sinister Six without:
1. help
2. a weapon
3. a plan
The sinister six never gave spidey a chance to come up with a plan and he still defated them all lets see wolvie , cap ,or daredevil take on guys like that all at once. Spidey know the six well and thay were the ones that would have to come up with a plan to defeat him. They have succeeded only to have spidey come back to beat them all.
Winning team lol 😉
So, "Winning Team", tell me this (for those who care, I already gave the correct answers 😉 ):
1. Can Spider-Man take the best shots from DD and CA ?Yes, not with ease, he will feel it, but he sure can take them
2. Can DD and CA break his webs ?nope
3. Has SM ever had trouble hitting or punching someone ? Yeah right
4. Can DD and CA avoid being hit by Spider-Man ?dream on
5. Can DD and CA take a powerpunch from Spider-Man ?absolutely not !
6. Is SM fast enough to "blitz" them so fast they even wouldn't know what hit them ? Yup
7. Has the Icon Trio a chance against Spider-Man ?Definitely, but only when they work together and come up with a decent plan
Two things : let's leave Wolverine out of this, right now I am only talking about the Flag and the Nightstick. Second, this forum has nothing to do with writers who don't care about the characters and their abilities, so don't give me that "No writer would write this or that". Here are no writers (thank God), here we only look at each one's abilities.
1. Can Spider-Man take the best shots from DD and CA ?
yeah,,,,but no one's debating this... 😕 ....Getting hit in the noggin with caps sheild though...that's a different story alltogether.
2. Can DD and CA break his webs ?
not with pure strength, but they can cut the webs off using techniques that have already been explained.....or were you asleep for that part?
3. Has SM ever had trouble hitting or punching someone ?
just someone? no not really, but guys like these....well that's a different story, Kinda hard to hit cap with his sheild in the way, matty matt's dodged spidey's punches on more than a few occasions. Like I said even fancy dan just an average human/judo export was able to dodge some of spidey's punches and this guy doesn't even have a radar sense.
4. Can DD and CA avoid being hit by Spider-Man ?
hmmmm well considering that they ummm...you know, have, yeah probably, but I'll defer to question 3's answer.
5. Can DD and CA take a powerpunch from Spider-Man ?
this....once again is debateable. they very well may be able to take a few of them. Once again I defer to spidey hitting ox with unpulled punches and the guy being fine....okay hurt, but certainly not in traction or anything. As well as spidey laying into an already dying woman without her going down immediately.
on top of that....cap's head has been used to level an apartment building and he survived. Cap has beaten up on thor and hulk. DD took some of venom's shots and just started dancing around the guy. Now don't tell me that venom is any weaker than spider man.
6. Is SM fast enough to "blitz" them so fast they even wouldn't know what hit them ?
Maybe.....but all three. he'll not only be having to focus on his speed, but on landing well placed blows (sufficient enough to KO) all the while avoiding wolvies claws, caps sheild, and matts billy club. I don't doubt he can bound around them, but he's not gonna be able to close ground on all three blitzing the entire group without getting tagged, whacked, or lassoed (again....enforcers example). Spidey's said to be a blur sure.....but common so has wolverine. while none of the trio may be as fast as spiderman, spidey's no teleporter for cryin out loud.....he's not even a speed demon (who wolverine handled rather easily). Spiderman's spider blitz has been blown slightly out of protortion for this thread.
7. Has the Icon Trio a chance against Spider-Man ?
yeah 7 of them...out of ten. ......more like does the trio have a chance of ass raping spidey......yyyyyyyyyyeah. 🙄
Originally posted by jinzin
because A) all of these are characters that know spiderman and his fighting style way better than the x-men in question at that given time. B) all of these guys have more experience than the x-men at that given time. C) spidey won't be dropping in on a bunch of surprised individuals. D) The trio has better leadership and teamwork abilities due to their leader than the x-men in question. E) Those x-men weren't trying to hurt spiderman just stop him, the trio won't be so generous. and F) "he's captain america he always finds a way!" lol.
Okay..I apologize for the delay...anyway...
Good points..lets break my responses down to each alpabetically..lol
a) Spider Man knows Captain America, Wolverine's, and DD's fighting styles...lol..this argument can easily go both ways..
b) The X-men at that time didn't have as much team experience, however, they were fairly experienced..the fact of the matter is, they underestimated Spider-Man..experience in itself had little to do with the fight...
c) Yes and neither will the Trio..remember..Spider Sense..it warns him of all "surprise" attacks...lol..
d) Uhh no they don't....this scenario has never actually taken place in actual comic book continuity...how the hell do you know that they are going to work well as a team with no prep...answer: you don't...
e) Again..goes both ways..does Spidey ever fight for the kill?...lol..hint: The answer is no...lol
f)...he's human...and regardless of how he's written in the comics...in this scenario..which is directly based on comic continuity...he will not be fighting under normal stipulations and circumstances...thus..he can loose...if he couldn'tl..there would be no point in debating this topic...duuuhh...
Depends on which Hulk vs. spiderman battle you want to discuss, The picture you used isn't even from an actual fight but rather spiderman bragging about his own abilities in an anniversary special, that's even less credible than a what if comic.
Actually I used to own that issue...as well as many others...the story was an overall description of SM's abilities...the biggest point of the picture was to illustrate the speed of SM's reflexes..which as it has been repeated many times...are up to 30 times
that of a normal human...however...Hulk was used as an example because the two have fought many times...and generally..that's the type of scenario that takes place in many of their encounters...any way..the reference is "credible" based on the fact that it was in a "comic book" published by Marvel to exemplify Spidey's speed....which is much greater than any of the Trio's...
If we were to go by braggings as "pure bred facts" (as straw would say) then apocalypse would own thanos' ass. lol. Now when spidey first tangled with hulk in amazing spiderman 119 and 120, all spidey did was run away, when he got in close he got grabbed by the ankle and slammed on his tukus. Then in another spiderman/hulk fight, amazing spiderman 381 and 382 he out manuevered Hulk for just a while getting hits in here or there. Eventually hulk got tired of it and just thunderclapped spiderman into submission.
Well..Your being a little misleading. How many times did Hulk swing at SM before he actually got a hold of him..quite a few if I do remember correctly...In most of those battles Spidey did essentially what was illustrated in the example....bobed and weaved for quite some time against the Hulk...until the Hulk finally got fast enough to keep up..(he gets stronger and faster as he gets angrier you know) or he used non-conventional means to subdue the wall crawler. (ie sonic clap)
Anyway..my point is that SM consistantly is difficult for someone as fast as the Hulk to hit...now why in the hell would he be any easier for the Trio to hit..they are in no way faster than the Hulk....
Just to clarify.....Hulk hit spiderman in both of those battles and spiderman can't bound around hulk as implied in that picure, when he gets in close and starts to hit the hulk he usually gets smashed for his troubles, he's more suites for running away getting in and placing in 2 or 3 hits then getting the **** out before he gets clobbered.
I'm not positive about the others..but in 381 and 382 he wasn't really able to hit him...(correct me if I'm wrong..I believe he had to use the thunderclap before he was able to get a hold of him)
Anyway....your example proves what's already been stated multiple times..SM never takes a difficult obstacle head on..and he would not do so in this scenario...he'll use that same strategy on the trio..who are much much slower than the hulk..as well as himself..."history" has proven this..no one has ever stated that its not possible for him to be hit...but again.."history" has proven him very difficult to hit by Marvel's heavy hitters when going all out..(ie Hulk, Thor, IM, She Hulk, Titania, Sabretooth, etc, etc, etc)
The trio's got 3 bodies instead of just one big one. for the rest of my "why the trio would hit spidey" I defer to my enforcers argument.
It's funny how you guys contradict yourselves so much in this debate...lol..using your logic..I could easily state that Spidey wasn't as "experienced" with the enforcers as he will be when facing the Trio...lol..but I won't instead I will state that Spider Man has also proven to be able to take on multiple people on much greater levels than the Trio and the Enforcers and prevailed...I've already sited multiple examples of this..refer to previous posts if you need more clarity...
not really facts until they happen huh? My point; the enforcer ox was probably about peak human strength but had no superpowers (even so i'd venture to say that cap is stronger and more durable than ox because he's peak everything with DD not being far behind), spiderman even said he enjoyed hitting ox because he didn't have to pull his punches. The berlin fight- spiderman hits an already dying woman with everything he's got by the end of his fight with wolvie and it's enough to kill her....but it still takes some time before she dies. For people who don't know how anyone could survive, I defer to XMA, another test was done where it was deduced that martial artists' bones and muscles are hardened through years of combat into a virtual living armor. Considering these same bones and muscles could keep ribs from breaking against a blow that had more force than a car wreck in the real world, the spiderman killing dd and cap with one unpulled punch theory loses a bit of validity on this one.
Again..with the Enforcers..lol...old story...but still "historical" okay..well we can also reference Spidey "historically" destroying objects such as concrete, metal, and other extremel difficult dense substances with his hands..are Caps/DD's durability as strong as the substances..well Marvel doesn't seem to think soo...lol....at least in their handbooks when they reference their durability being that of an "athelete"...lol...as far as your XMA argument goes..I have no idea what the hell your talking about..lol..but I guarantee that few people with "human" level durabilities would be able to withstand something dense enough to destroy metal/concrete/ going at the speed of 3-4 times that of a normal "human"...lol...you are now free to contradict yourself...
Incredible Hulk 182, 345, 425....read em. wolvie can dance around hulk when he wants to.
lol..well...I've read 345 and 425..and Wolvie didn't dance around that much..as in at all. In fact..he got hit a ton of times...I believe someone's being a bit misleading again...😉 And Cap and DD have never run circles around the Big guy..anyone who tells you otherwise is being extremely misleading as well..I won't mention any names..(hint: Capt JK..Cosmo Kramer..lol)
Oh just for the record again. Spidey's backhanded wolvie and webbed him up in two non fights
LOL..well I agree with everything you stated except the "non fight" part...now my question to you is..since history has proven him able to do this..what's keeping him from using this tactic once again...
lol. well I'm done shooting down all of these spiderman "FACTS" lol, gnight,,,,morning,,,whatever it is.
Yes you are..so far you haven't shot down anything except for you "credibility"...lol..get a good nights sleep..and try harder to disprove them next time...
Originally posted by who?-kid
Two things : let's leave Wolverine out of this, right now I am only talking about the Flag and the Nightstick. Second, this forum has nothing to do with writers...
How 'bout one more thing: this thread is about Captain America, DareDevil AND Wolverine (you know, the short, hairy mutant guy who ran your boy through in those "New Avengers" pics), vs. Spider-Man. You can't leave him out of the equation, because he was included in the original thread by the thread-starter (and we all know how you guys are sticklers for what the thread-starter wanted), so he's in there. And he whipped your boy's ass. Ran him straight through, after snapping Parker's webs like it was silly string. Deal with it.
Hey, one more thing: this forum has EVERYTHING to do with the writers. They're the creative geniuses whose minds have given us these characters and their powers and rich histories to argue about in the first place. You Spidey-fanboys can't sit there and cite "Spidey beat Firelord", "Spidey can jump 30 feet", "Spidey has the best movies", etc. without using references from the writers. So, we can cite "Wolverine stabbed Spidey in the gut" and "Spider-Man is in awe of Captain America's fighting abilities", etc. You Spidey-fanboys can't have it both ways.
Originally posted by python99
The sinister six never gave spidey a chance to come up with a plan and he still defated them all lets see wolvie , cap ,or daredevil take on guys like that all at once. Spidey know the six well and thay were the ones that would have to come up with a plan to defeat him. They have succeeded only to have spidey come back to beat them all.
Never gave him a chance?
Spiderman regularly meets up with the Six, loses a tough battle, goes back to regroup and formulates a plan/get friends....and THEN triumphs over the Six.
The one time I can think of where Spiderman went in unprepared while the Sinister Six "never gave him a chance to come up with a plan", he had the Hulk as back up....and BOTH were left KO'd
Originally posted by whobdamandog
...d) Uhh no they don't....this scenario has [b]never actually taken place...
[/B]
Uhh... Yes it has. Read the 2004 "Secret War" 5 book miniseries (a VERY good story, btw). Captain America leads Wolverine, DareDevil, Luke Cage, Nick Fury, Daisy Johnson AND Spider-Man into battle in this series against a whole slew of villains. Do you even read comic books, man?
Originally posted by whobdamandog
And Cap and DD have never run circles around the Big guy..anyone who tells you otherwise is being extremely misleading as well..I won't mention any names..(hint: Capt JK..Cosmo Kramer...
Ummm... If by "big guy" you mean the Hulk, then same question. I even told you a specific issue to read so you wouldn't have to wander around the comic shop lost. If you want, I can thumb through my vast library of Cap and Avengers comics and give you a few more. Again, do you read the comics, or just look at the pretty covers under the plastic? Your lack of real knowledge about these characters and their histories is completely dumbfounding. Why are you even on here?
Originally posted by Capt.JK
How 'bout one more thing: this thread is about Captain America, DareDevil [B]AND Wolverine (you know, the short, hairy mutant guy who ran your boy through in those "New Avengers" pics), vs. Spider-Man. You can't leave him out of the equation, because he was included in the original thread by the thread-starter (and we all know how you guys are sticklers for what the thread-starter wanted), so he's in there. And he whipped your boy's ass. Ran him straight through, after snapping Parker's webs like it was silly string. Deal with it.
LOL..okay..I'll deal with it..if you can also deal with the fact that Wolverine(as well as Captain/DD) can be easily incapacitated by the webbing..which he was in the example that was given...and multiple other times...in fact..I believe it was fairly obvious in the pictures that the wallcrawler wasn't trying to go for the kill against Wolverine....(ie he webbed him up once, and didn't go to attack him or web him up again afterwards..both could have been easily done...) which he will be doing in this scenario...
Hey, one more thing: this forum has EVERYTHING to do with the writers. They're the creative geniuses whose minds have given us these characters and their powers and rich histories to argue about in the first place. You Spidey-fanboys can't sit there and cite "Spidey beat Firelord", "Spidey can jump 30 feet", "Spidey has the best movies", etc. without using references from the writers. So, we can cite "Wolverine stabbed Spidey in the gut" and "Spider-Man is in awe of Captain America's fighting abilities", etc. You Spidey-fanboys can't have it both ways.
Well no one stated that you should not use references..however, you should use "logical" references to debate your position with. With comic characters this is difficult, because the characters abilities change so frequently, and different writers have different interpretations of what characters should be able to do. With fluctuating powers and interpretations of these characters...it's difficult to base an argument on something that happened once, twice, or even a couple of times in continuity..this leads to the old..this one did this..this one did that debate..which essentially never proves anything..anyway..I stand by my stance..from a logistics POV..SM is much stronger..much faster...much more agile than any of the Trio..and he can sense their attacks..so IMO..fighting at his best...and in this particular scenario..which lies out of normal comic book continuity..I believe he would definately be a difficult obstacle to overcome..
Originally posted by Capt.JK
Uhh... Yes it has. Read the 2004 "Secret War" 5 book miniseries (a [B]VERY good story, btw). Captain America leads Wolverine, DareDevil, Luke Cage, Nick Fury, Daisy Johnson AND Spider-Man into battle in this series against a whole slew of villains. Do you even read comic books, man?
Uhhh..no it hasn't...🙄 How many times has Cap fought against SM for the kill with Wolverine/Cap/DD in a random/unstrategized battle..lol..uhh..never.....
Ummm... If by "big guy" you mean the Hulk, then same question. I even told you a specific issue to read so you wouldn't have to wander around the comic shop lost. If you want, I can thumb through my vast library of Cap and Avengers comics and give you a few more. Again, do you read the comics, or just look at the pretty covers under the plastic? Your lack of real knowledge about these characters and their histories is completely dumbfounding. Why are you even on here?
Call me crazy....but I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to you giving your "historical" examples. Thus far the only real history you've given in this debate has been the following:
Cap defeated Nazi's
Cap broke the Hulk's hold...
The infamous..Cap managed to hit the Hulk while the entire Marvel universe was attacking him..lol..
Cap is not written to loose..so he can't...
Or the ever so pertinant fact..Redwing is a bird..lol...
Am I missing anything..
Anyway..despite any "example" you believe you have..it's still quite clear to me..as well as to Marvel...that SM is much faster than the Hulk..who is much faster than Cap/DD/Wolvie(not more agile mind you but much much faster)..lol...but just for amusement..I'll give you the opportunity to contradict yourself once again..lol...
lol..wait I found a few more..
Cap's head was used as a wrecking ball to level a building...
Wolverine is a killing machine..the "best" at what he does...
The Trio are icons...
Cap is the "supreme" tactician of the battlefield...
lol....now do you see what I've had to debate against for the past 75 pages...lol
I hope you have enjoyed making stupid jokes to yourself. First off Spidey has admitted to everyone that he finds DD to be an equal. That must mean that this thread is garbage especially since Marvel always seems to pin the two up with each other. Go turn on that garbage you call rap and stop posting on this damn dirty thread.
Originally posted by Cosmo Kramer
I hope you have enjoyed making stupid jokes to yourself. First off Spidey has admitted to everyone that he finds DD to be an equal. That must mean that this thread is garbage especially since Marvel always seems to pin the two up with each other. Go turn on that garbage you call rap and stop posting on this damn dirty thread.
Woow..nice rebuttal..lol..
Word of advice..if you want the thread to die soo bad..don't post on it..nimwad..lol...sigh..You people and your contradictions...😮💨 😆 😆
Originally posted by jinzin
well I dunno man, they do have those 3 pictures and strawnilla, he can give spiderman all sorts of crazy powers, our smarts can only get us so far.
Pfft.
Why not come up with something, oh I don't know, relevant to the ACTUAL topic at hand? Insulting me does all of nothing to help your credibility.