Originally posted by Draco69
That's not really evidence. The X-Men were in enclosed space.....
And massively inexperienced? You sure?
Not to start any kind of uproar but, the X-Men weren't massively disadvantaged. The battle, though generally short, left plenty of opportunities for the X-Men to tag Spidey (they had not one but *two* members of the team that could fly) from which they could not capitalize. Spidey just played it smart, he dropped in, dispatched the only telepath/mind reader there at the time, and went to work utilizing his unique combination of strength, speed, maneuverability, long-range weapons (webbing), and reflexes to exploit the weaknesses of each and every character at the scene like so:
-Colossus was slow, and his reflexes, while fairly useful in their own right, were in no way on par with Spidey's
-Wolvie was too brash with his attacks, easily exploitable to the spider sense and a backhand courtesy of Spidey's spider strength
-Rogue just went aerial too soon, possibly thinking it would be useful in fighting a character such as Spidey (who couldn't fly). Underestimation? In a sense, yes. But not one of Spidey's, one of his webbing.
-Storm, as with Rogue, just went aerial too soon and basically did nothing, pretty much her fault.
-Nightcrawler thought he was as fast as Spidey, an underestimation, but an understandable one.
-And there are day-to-day rogues in Spidey's gallery that know virtually nothing of the spider sense (or at least, this was so in the beginning and for a long time until they paid attention to how Spidey knew of an attack coming and therefore dodged it, in a sense, before it came). So really, I can't see how someone would have a reason for blaming Spidey's success on an underestimation of the spider sense or something of that nature when so many others have in turn done so.
Originally posted by X-Logan
Spider man have never get near to win a fight against Wolvie...secret war??It wasn´t even a fight...And there is another one when Logan get Spider man´s head and smash it into a tree,it was one of those spider man series on 90s by Macfarlane.
What about that graveyard "epic" where Spidey is ON TOP of Wolvie, pounding him in the face? Wait, no, that wasn't a win because regardless of Wolvie being incapable of doing anything about it, he still smiled about it. *Makes scoffing sound.*
Originally posted by StrawNilla
Yes, the environment they fought in was an enclosed one......but I think you'd agree that the lineup had, still, alot of space to move around.And massively inexperienced? You sure?
Not to start any kind of uproar but, the X-Men weren't massively disadvantaged. The battle, though generally short, left plenty of opportunities for the X-Men to tag Spidey (they had not one but *two* members of the team that could fly) from which they could not capitalize. Spidey just played it smart, he dropped in, dispatched the only telepath/mind reader there at the time, and went to work utilizing his unique combination of strength, speed, maneuverability, long-range weapons (webbing), and reflexes to exploit the weaknesses of each and every character at the scene like so:
-Colossus was slow, and his reflexes, while fairly useful in their own right, were in no way on par with Spidey's
-Wolvie was too brash with his attacks, easily exploitable to the spider sense and a backhand courtesy of Spidey's spider strength
-Rogue just went aerial too soon, possibly thinking it would be useful in fighting a character such as Spidey (who couldn't fly). Underestimation? In a sense, yes. But not one of Spidey's, one of his webbing.
-Storm, as with Rogue, just went aerial too soon and basically did nothing, pretty much her fault.
-Nightcrawler thought he was as fast as Spidey, an underestimation, but an understandable one.
-And there are day-to-day rogues in Spidey's gallery that know virtually nothing of the spider sense (or at least, this was so in the beginning and for a long time until they paid attention to how Spidey knew of an attack coming and therefore dodged it, in a sense, before it came). So really, I can't see how someone would have a reason for blaming Spidey's success on an underestimation of the spider sense or something of that nature when so many others have in turn done so.
They were inexperienced as team. Storm could barely hold the reins.
They severely underestimated him. ONE guy that fires webs versus an entire team of mutants. They thought it would be an easy victory. And they were wrong.
If they fought each other now...
Originally posted by Draco69
They were inexperienced as team. Storm could barely hold the reins.They severely underestimated him. ONE guy that fires webs versus an entire team of mutants. They thought it would be an easy victory. And they were wrong.
If they fought each other now...
They didn't severely underestimate him, I mean, just by seeing Spidey put their leader through a table with a simple backhand swat after *just* dropping in, then I would expect that the X-Men were thinking that they would be fighting against someone with more than webbing at their disposal.
And they were making a group effort to try and stop him, after all.
And them fighting now wouldn't take anything away from Spidey's abilities....is the team more experienced now? Definitely. Are they more mature when thinking of their next move? Definitely.
But the same could be said about Spidey, maybe even moreso seeing that Spidey has since then fought numerous organized teams....
Depending on the lineup, I'd say it'd be a tossup on both sides.
Originally posted by StrawNilla
You're talking about ONE member of the team not being able to hold the reins yet that still makes the ENTIRE team inexperienced....I don't think you can blame that on the team.They didn't severely underestimate him, I mean, just by seeing Spidey put their leader through a table with a simple backhand swat after *just* dropping in, then I would expect that the X-Men were thinking that they would be fighting against someone with more than webbing at their disposal.
And they were making a group effort to try and stop him, after all.
And them fighting now wouldn't take anything away from Spidey's abilities....is the team more experienced now? Definitely. Are they more mature when thinking of their next move? Definitely.
But the same could be said about Spidey, maybe even moreso seeing that Spidey has since then fought numerous organized teams....
Depending on the lineup, I'd say it'd be a tossup on both sides.
Their leader was caught by surprise. The X-Men were continually underestimating his abilities. Rogue thought she could easily catch him, Nightcrawler thought he was as fast as him, Wolverine even said it would be an easy battle. They underestimated him. Nightcrawler himself was amazed of how badly they underestimated him.
The entire team WAS inexperienced. Rogue just joined the team. The elders were only X-Men for a couple of years. And Storm was completely off her game. They were inexperienced as a TEAM. They didn't really know how to fight together.
Originally posted by Draco69
Their leader was caught by surprise. The X-Men were continually underestimating his abilities. Rogue thought she could easily catch him, Nightcrawler thought he was as fast as him, Wolverine even said it would be an easy battle. They underestimated him. Nightcrawler himself was amazed of how badly they underestimated him.The entire team WAS inexperienced. Rogue just joined the team. The elders were only X-Men for a couple of years. And Storm was completely off her game. They were inexperienced as a TEAM. They didn't really know how to fight together.
And Rogue was a novice, who was she (and this is the case with many) to expect Spidey's webbing to be just that strong? And there have been plenty of high-flyers that thought they could actually catch Spidey (multiple Goblins, Archangel, etc) the fact that Rogue thought the same is not an unlikely assumption on her part.
And there are plenty of guys slower than NC in the MU, especially so when these people have to deal with NC's teleportation. The fact that he thought so about a guy in a spider costume is nothing outrageous. He was wrong, and yes, he underestimated Spidey's speed, but that can be one's mindset when you have NC's abilities at one's disposal. NC's teleporation and speed are his two most impotant assets, the fact that he thought that this should therefore be enough, and that he used the words "as agile" to compare himself to Spidey rather than go on to think he was superior wasn't a ridicoulous assumption in the least. Just wrong.
And when has Wolvie not been written to expect an easy battle with someone who's not Sabertooth or Juggernaut? Wolvie doesn't expect alot of people to last too long against him in a fight thanks to his personality and the abilities at his disposal. He's not an idiot, but he's not one to expect a good fight out of just anyone, heck, he's not shy of labeling some bricks as less of a threat than they really are.
And Storm couldn't just whip out anything in an enclosed space such as the one they were in, granted, it was a large space, but a tornado would've been most unnessecary. And who expects Spidey not to sense lightning attacks before they came in the first place? It is a danger after all. And Spidey's taken hail attacks before and come out alright in the past, to have tried it there would've done next to no good.
In short, in a sense, they did underestimate Spidey. But not massively. For most their assumptions in that fight was just their mindset and not a new way of thinking.
I love how all of you Spidey-fans just tried to gloss over all of those pics of Wolverine kicking Spider-Man's ass, especially the one from the New Avengers series where he gets stabbed in the gut. Fight over. Wolverine tore through the webbing so fast Spider-Man didn't even know what hit him. Maybe you should go back and look at them again, and realize that Wolverine is only one of 3 heroes going after the li'l bug-head in this fight. Parker is toast.
Originally posted by Draco69
I think it was one of those "kiddie comics" that have been coming out.
(Kiddie comic? It was from the New Avengers series, one of the highest selling series in print right now. And secondly, there's blood on Wolverine's claws. What kind of comics do you let your "kiddies" read that has blood in it on a regular basis?)
Originally posted by Capt.JK
I love how all of you Spidey-fans just tried to gloss over all of those pics of Wolverine kicking Spider-Man's ass, especially the one from the New Avengers series where he gets stabbed in the gut. Fight over. Wolverine tore through the webbing so fast Spider-Man didn't even know what hit him. Maybe you should go back and look at them again, and realize that Wolverine is only one of [B]3 heroes going after the li'l bug-head in this fight. Parker is toast. [/B]
We're talking about someone with reflexes heightened by PRE-COG, not to mention that this particular person never really even tried to fight Wolvie and merely leaped over Logan as he charged forward.
And that link where Wolvie backhanded Spidey was a pure fanboyistic view of Wolvie's strength. I mean, how many accounts are there of Wolvie even lifting a car much less backhanding guys much faster and stronger than he a couple yards away? But it's your choice of whether or not to believe that Wolvie could logically do that to Spidey, but, for your welfare, I'd suggest you'd not bet any money on it.
Originally posted by StrawNilla
I love how you try to gloss over the fact that Wolvie does not have superhuman strength and therefore in fact could not have pulled away from that webbing so fast, not to mention to fast for Spidey.We're talking about someone with reflexes heightened by PRE-COG, not to mention that this particular person never really even tried to fight Wolvie and merely leaped over Logan as he charged forward.
And that link where Wolvie backhanded Spidey was a pure fanboyistic view of Wolvie's strength. I mean, how many accounts are there of Wolvie even lifting a car much less backhanding guys much faster and stronger than he a couple yards away? But it's your choice of whether or not to believe that Wolvie could logically do that to Spidey, but, for your welfare, I'd suggest you'd not bet any money on it.
Well, first of all, no one can bet money on any of this: these are comic book characters. Come back to Earth. That having been said, the pictures are right there in front of you. They were published by Marvel Comics, the same people who own, create, and publish your precious Spidey comics. The same people who deemed it necessary to place Spider-Man on the New Avengers squad (under the COMMAND of Captain America, I'd like to add. Could it be that they also realized that in the MU, Cap is the only one qualified to lead them, and not Spider-Man? Hmmm...)
But anyway, whine all you want; the pictures are right there in front of you in glorious Marvel Color! Deal with it! And Spider-Man's only losing to 1 of the guys in this thread in these pics! YEEHAW! this thread is DONE!!!
I will now do the infamous banana dance of joy...
clap💃bandpunkclapping💃
Originally posted by Capt.JK
Well, first of all, no one can bet money on any of this: these are comic book characters. Come back to Earth. That having been said, the pictures are right there in front of you. They were published by Marvel Comics, the same people who own, create, and publish your precious Spidey comics. The same people who deemed it necessary to place Spider-Man on the New Avengers squad (under the [B]COMMAND of Captain America, I'd like to add. Could it be that they also realized that in the MU, Cap is the only one qualified to lead them, and not Spider-Man? Hmmm...)But anyway, whine all you want; the pictures are right there in front of you in glorious Marvel Color! Deal with it! And Spider-Man's only losing to 1 of the guys in this thread in these pics! YEEHAW! this thread is DONE!!!
I will now do the infamous banana dance of joy...
clap💃bandpunkclapping💃 [/B]
*Reads post*
Just as I thought, nothing comes from logic. In case you haven't noticed, I've never denied that Cap is the commander of the New Avengers, but c'mon, what kind of argument is that? Cap A. has been the commander of pretty much every Avengers lineup, it's nothing special that after all that he's still commander.
And what can you not understand about a superhuman that is superhuman in every physical aspect beating a mutant in peak condition? Wow, I guess we should take the high-end showings of quite possibly the most inconsistent and overrated character in the MU for pure bred fact and forget that Spidey has a vertical leaping distance of 30 ft or more, the ability to lift *press* 10 tons and more, durability to take being thrown through a brick wall and dent a steel door when thrown into it (have I mentioned how Spidey has ripped and kicked steel doors off their hinges with his bare hands and legs?), maneuvered through numerous lasers and bullets in mid-air, etc, etc.
It's pretty sad to see one throw away precious (and logical) feats such as these for a few showings of a guy slower than Spidey and dwarfed in turn by Spidey in every physical aspect shy of endurance and durability actually tagging Spidey with his claws and such. Very, very sad. 🙁
Originally posted by Zahit
logan does not have superhuman strength.
no way can his backhand send anyone flying.
^bingo
One solid punch from Spidey to DD and Cap is enuf to put them down if we are talking about some radom encounter with the foursome
Wolverine may take a few more but they most assuredly would connect.
Spidey is better than each other character in every way except
A)battle tactic's from Cap'n but these wont save in in a random brawl
B)Breakable bone's, but first they actually have to hit him to hurt him
C)Knowledge of the legal system, yup DD can sue Parker
D)traditional fighting ability, but compared to Spiderman's style off combat these are pretty much useless
and yeah new avengers is high selling, but one other instance is Carnage being an uber lethal straight forward murder dosent grease Spiderwoman, Luke Cage, DareDevil or Foggy. pffft yeah I belive that one second is all he needs to of one of them at that range.
class 25 strength, sure Sentry didnt care much but to them its more than sufficent.
Originally posted by StrawNilla
I'm not dealing with anything on this post that doesn't come from logic.*Reads post*
Just as I thought, nothing comes from logic. In case you haven't noticed, I've never denied that Cap is the commander of the New Avengers, but c'mon, what kind of argument is that? Cap A. has been the commander of pretty much every Avengers lineup, it's nothing special that after all that he's still commander.
And what can you not understand about a superhuman that is superhuman in every physical aspect beating a mutant in peak condition? Wow, I guess we should take the high-end showings of quite possibly the most inconsistent and overrated character in the MU for pure bred fact and forget that Spidey has a vertical leaping distance of 30 ft or more, the ability to lift *press* 10 tons and more, durability to take being thrown through a brick wall and dent a steel door when thrown into it (have I mentioned how Spidey has ripped and kicked steel doors off their hinges with his bare hands and legs?), maneuvered through numerous lasers and bullets in mid-air, etc, etc.
It's pretty sad to see one throw away precious (and logical) feats such as these for a few showings of a guy slower than Spidey and dwarfed in turn by Spidey in every physical aspect shy of endurance and durability actually tagging Spidey with his claws and such. Very, very sad. 🙁
YOU'RE INTERRUPTING MY BANANA DANCE OF JOY!!!
Sigh... Oh well; here goes again:
1) I pointed out that Captain America is the leader of the New Avengers, and NOT Spider-Man, because you Spidey-fanboys keep trying to say that Spider-Man has just as much ability in the field tactics and logistics of combat department as Cap. Obviously Marvel doesn't feel that way. I also pointed it out because you Spidey-fanboys have said that Wolverine wouldn't work well on a team led by Cap because he wouldn't follow Cap's command. Funny how Marvel doesn't agree with you guys on that subject either. I'm starting to see a pattern here.
2) So rather than taking the pictured examples of Wolverine vs. Spider-Man, which appeared in actual published comics, we should instead take the rantings of a few star-struck Toby Maguire fans as, wait, how did you put it... "pure bred fact", lest we forget "that Spidey has a vertical leaping distance of 30 ft or more, the ability to lift *press* 10 tons and more, durability to take being thrown through a brick wall and dent a steel door..." We should take all of this as pure bred fact instead.
(Hey man... Come here... A little closer... THESE ARE COMIC CHARACTERS, MAN! NONE OF THIS IS REAL! THERE ARE NO PURE BRED FACTS!!!)
Now back to my banana dance of joy... 💃
Originally posted by VENOMfan
[B...and yeah new avengers is high selling, but one other instance is Carnage being an uber lethal straight forward murder dosent grease Spiderwoman, Luke Cage, DareDevil or Foggy. pffft yeah I belive that one second is all he needs to of one of them at that range.class 25 strength, sure Sentry didnt care much but to them its more than sufficent. [/B]
And of course, we can tell by his sig that he is definitely NOT biased.
Sorry guys; the banana's still dancin'. 💃
