Originally posted by Quick Freeze
yes! 😆
i dont know, i heard somewhere that captain america's superleadership is invulnerable to being tied up in anyway 😛
Don't you know Cap controls the battlefield..of course he's invulnerable to being tied up..or to any other form of attack for that matter...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA...LOL... 😆 😆
Originally posted by jinzin
"Okay, so why couldn't Spidey break Fisk's hold using...oh what was that called?'cause he had no leverage....you can be as strong as you want but a littl e skinny guy gets your arm contorted into a really nice submissions hold, your strength isn't gonna do sqwat.
"As I've stated earlier, Spidey is like a superstar in the WWE"
this is just sad...first you spidey guys bring up the 3 ninjas as if it had something to do with this fight....now the WWE? lol....well once again, it's not like debating...oh i don't know...THE ACTUAL COMICS...is helping ya anyways.
And have you even bothered to read what I posted after I made the Spidey/WWE reference? Spidey never loses to any peak human/mutant in peak condition, in cases like those, he jobs to them. Spidey could KO the lot of them with one punch each if he wanted to but no, Spidey has to hold back. And what about him being faster, more elastic and more agile than DD, Cap, and Wolvie? Pfft. That doesn't matter. Spidey can just as easily walk into a punch square in the face. Pre-cog? Ha! Pre-cog, me-fog, let's just leave that aspect of his power out all together. Pretty much any human Spidey comes across in combat he's forced to job to in some way if not every way.
Originally posted by jinzin
"Seriously though..if you read through this entire thread..you will clearly see the argument laid out rather consistantly/logically for the position of SM winning this battle."consistantly and logically? ...........BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......well I guess that depends on who you ask? (cough*spidey fanboys*cough)
Originally posted by StrawNilla
Okay, this "sumo hold" you talk about that was applied by a human in mere PEAK condition, was too much for a guy that could break steel bonds? Screw leverage. As long as Kingpin had those arms of his around Spidey in an attempt to hold him there Spidey could've broken free, 'nuff said. This may not be the case for any ordinary guy who needs all the leverage he get if he wants any chance of breaking free, but for the guy that can lay on his back and 'press 20,000+ lbs, it's not a problem. Fisk could've had him in the air and all Spidey would've had to do was grab Fisk's wrists and pulled in two opposite directions, breaking Fisk's grip on his costume. If Fisk would've grabbed Spidey's arm and twisted it around Spidey could've easily reversed it into a maneuver of his own by simply swinging his arm in the opoosite direction.
Actually, StrawNilla, even though we are both voting for Spiderman, I will have to disagree with you here.
Fisk is ABNORMALLY strong, even for a peak human. All that supposed fat is nothing but muscle on his body. It is entirely feasable that he could hurt Spiderman with a bear hug. Not only feasable, it's true, because it has happened on more than one occassion. Fisk can in fact and has hurt Spidey before. Not to say that he defeats Spidey, Spidey would clearly beat him every single time, just that he can indeed hurt him. He is a rather large fellow.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Actually, StrawNilla, even though we are both voting for Spiderman, I will have to disagree with you here.Fisk is ABNORMALLY strong, even for a peak human. All that supposed fat is nothing but muscle on his body. It is entirely feasable that he could hurt Spiderman with a bear hug. Not only feasable, it's true, because it has happened on more than one occassion. Fisk can in fact and has hurt Spidey before. Not to say that he defeats Spidey, Spidey would clearly beat him every single time, just that he can indeed hurt him. He is a rather large fellow.
Look Spider-man can win this fight with out even getting close to them I mean he can 50 or more feet on a wall and web them.If them try to climb after him he can jump more then 50 feet away if Cap throws his shield there is a better chance SM will ketch it or web it to a wall then it hitting SM.The three can only throw a club and a shield(witch is the only one of the to that can hurt SM)SM can throw cars,bus's,light poles,trucks,trees(if he can find one),a rock or brick moving at are past 300mph.All thees things are a lot harder to dodge for the three then for SM to dodge a club or shield.Tell me this if SM does not even get close to them how will they win.I have lots of ways SM can win by doing this.He can win with out staying back as well but he is smart and it is safer to stay back in-lease until Login is webbed up.
All of you guys just sound like your making stuff up to protect your ultra-fanboy delusions. DD, has given Spidey trouble, Fisk has given spidey trouble, Punisher's straight out beaten his ass, Wolvie's taken it to him, Now, All of a sudden he's going to walts all over three guys which on there own have a chance of beating him?
"Spidey beating the X-men/FF/Sinister Six is old and outdated writing..they were all inexperienced and they used poor teamwork..but the enforcers beating Spidey stands as a valid up to date storyline that an experienced Spidey can be taken down by street level foes.."
pffft. as far as the sin six are conserned I quote link on this one:
getting his butt kicked by the sinister six?
Spiderman was never able to take on the Sinister Six without:
1. help
2. a weapon
3. a plan
As far as the FF go. Spidey beat them? when? please tell me when this happened...please......As far as i know Jonney Storm on his own has humiliated spiderman......But the entire FF? well lets see there was THIS incident....
As anyone with eyes in their head can see....Spiderman didn't beat the FF whatsoever....He dropped in unannounced and uninvited on another bunch of confused and surprised superheros unfamiliar with spiderman and not trying to hurt spiderman only contain him.......Spiderman threw the thing....who was holding back as not to hurt a normal person....much less a person with comparitive spider strength...and then he spun around invisible woman....who was only using her power of invisability.....wow spiderman threw a big guy who didn't want to hurt him and spun around a (for all intents and purposes in that situation) normal woman who just happened to be invisable.....then he got cornered and ran away.......does that look like a victorious spidey to you?....... just another classic example of clueless spiderman fans trying to debate an issue they know nothing about.
And the X-men.... it's not their experience as a team or as heroes that I was debating.....it's the fact that they underestimated spidey....I mean common someone from YOUR SIDE pointed this out....they didn't know what they were up against they were surprised..in close quarters where they couldn't make use of the full extent of their powers...and once again the heroes were only trying to contain spiderman not hurt him.... ANYWAYS......they did underestimate spiderman that much we can agree on at least.....the experience I question is the experience the the three members of the trio have WITH SPIDERMAN whether that be as an ally or an adversary.... they know what spiderman's capible of.... the x-men didn't... that's were the trio's experience counts.
and once again you're totally twisting why spiderman vs. the enforcers was brought up in the first place.....the point of that example was that A) humans can hurt spidey B) humans can hit spidey C) humans can lasso spidey D) strong humans can take unpulled spidey punches E) despite his power three less experienced humans DID take it to spidey and F) The numbers game will catch up on spidey.....the point is, with the exception of F) these are not debatable points as they are all facts. they all happened and you can't dney that. this in itself gives good reason as to why the trio would rape spidey.
"The Trio has defeated much more powerful people than Spider -Man..but how often does Spider Man take on obstacles far greater than any of the Trio...Firelord/Iron 2020..Rhino..those guys could easily be written to be taken down by Cap/DD/Wolvie"
lol....I guess the names Hulk, Magneto, Ultron, Abomination, and Venom, simply mean nothing to you huh? pfffft. same could be said for these guys about spiderman....
Originally posted by MERCILOUS
All of you guys just sound like your making stuff up to protect your ultra-fanboy delusions. DD, has given Spidey trouble, Fisk has given spidey trouble, Punisher's straight out beaten his ass, Wolvie's taken it to him, Now, All of a sudden he's going to walts all over three guys which on there own have a chance of beating him?
What character hasn't given another one trouble? In the world of comics. Anything is possible..due to the concept of "suspension of disbelief" That's how Kazar was able to beat Thanos(which was later retconned), or how Thor was able to overpower Galactus with a Godforce blast. Stories would be rather bland and dry in comics, if we had set guidelines/rules as to what could and couldn't happen in them.
...but we're not debating how comic books stories are written..we're debating what could logically happen in this fictional scenario..which takes place out of regular "comic book continuity"...where each character is allowed to use their "abilities" to their fullest..and none of the regular "PIS/CIS guidlines apply. (IE Cap not being able to loose, Spider Man not being able to keep up with a street level thugs...etc..etc).
Based on his abilities, SM would be an extremely difficult opponent for the Trio to Overcome..
"Look Spider-man can win this fight with out even getting close to them I mean he can 50 or more feet on a wall and web them.If them try to climb after him he can jump more then 50 feet away if Cap throws his shield there is a better chance SM will ketch it or web it to a wall then it hitting SM.The three can only throw a club and a shield(witch is the only one of the to that can hurt SM)SM can throw cars,bus's,light poles,trucks,trees(if he can find one),a rock or brick moving at are past 300mph.All thees things are a lot harder to dodge for the three then for SM to dodge a club or shield.Tell me this if SM does not even get close to them how will they win.I have lots of ways SM can win by doing this.He can win with out staying back as well but he is smart and it is safer to stay back in-lease until Login is webbed up."
this is about the best argument from your side so far...but again...why is spiderman the only one here with homefeild advantage?
Originally posted by jinzin
pffft. as far as the sin six are conserned I quote link on this one:getting his butt kicked by the sinister six?
Spiderman was never able to take on the Sinister Six without:
1. help
2. a weapon
3. a plan
I'm going to only respond to the third part of that argument. Why the hell wouldn't he have a plan? I mean damb..that's just common sense.. You may now give me examples of when either Captain/DD/Wolvie...have ever overcome an entire Super-Team all by their lonesomes...(note..I've already given you multiple examples of Spider-Man doing so..)
As far as the FF go. Spidey beat them? when? please tell me when this happened...please......As far as i know Jonney Storm on his own has humiliated spiderman......But the entire FF? well lets see there was THIS incident....
For those of you who can't make out the scan above..It takes place in Amazing Spider Man 1...below is a summary of the "expanded" version of the FF battle..it was in the pages of Fantastic Four Annual 1...don't believe me..read the summary listed below which recounts the battle panel by panel..
http://www.spiderfan.org/comics/reviews/fantastic_four_annual/001.html
The story was expanded by 25 panels..and If you read the summary....you'll see that SM clearly manages to incapicitate the thing/Mister Fantastic/Invisible woman with his strength/speed/agility/webbing...(IE webs Thing up with "electrical" webbing..lol) He also manages to fend off the Human Torch's fire "bombs" with a "webbed" bat..lol..
The FF clearly did not have the upper hand in this battle Jin..anyone who states they did is either...
a) blind
b) delusional
c) fanboy
d) all of the above..
The fact of the matter is that he took 3 of the FF down with very little effort....and the fact that he took them by "surprise" just goes to show you how much of an upper hand SM has against the Trio..particularly since this is a "surprise"(ie random) battle. Rather than wait for your response..I'm going to go ahead and rebut this story for you..
Jinzin: The FF weren't experienced as a team..he surprised them...and they underestimated SM and weren't going for the kill. Cap/DD/Wolvie are way more experienced as a team..they were both all on battleworld in "secret wars"..they were fighting together in a "planned" attack..and Cap was leading..and that proves that they can defeat the webslinger in an "unplanned" encounter...
and once again you're totally twisting why spiderman vs. the enforcers was brought up in the first place.....the point of that example was that A) Blah... B) Blah... C) Blah... D) Blah..Blah...Blah... E)Blah...Blah..blah F)wholy..smolly..will..it ever end..
I'm going to use the "Jinzin" rationale on the Enforcer's battle.
here goes...
Spiderman was not very experienced and taken by surprise in his battle against the Enforcers..he is infinitely more experienced now..and could currently take them down with ease...
there..that pretty much shoots down the Enforcers argument...😆 😆
lol....I guess the names Hulk, Magneto, Ultron, Abomination, and Venom, simply mean nothing to you huh? pfffft. same could be said for these guys about spiderman....
So Cap/DD have taken down the Hulk, Magneto, Abomination, Ultron, Venom by their lonesomes...lol..I think not..lol...I'll admit to Wolvie taking "on" the Hulk(and been utterly destroyed all but one time) and Venom(in that lame-nonsensical Madness storyline)..but Wolvie taking down the others by himself..what the hell have you been smoking boy..and you say that I twist things around...lol... 😆 😆