Originally posted by The MISTER
Somebody please explain why Spider-man cannot cause severe internal bleeding to any of these guys with a punch or a kick. No fan of Spider-man is going to ever say that "That's impossible" because he can definitely hit hard enough to permanently injure the peak human.
Spidey wins, But it won't be a cakewalk.
But if they just happen to fight without preptime, Spider-Man needs only one punch to knock down CA and DD, who do NOT have superhuman durability (well, maybe a very little). The only reason these things won't happen in comics, is because nobody wants to pay to see a fight where Spider-Man knocks DD lights out with one punch.
But here comic rules don't apply. Here we (try to) forget all the errors made by writers, and try to come up with a plausible scenario how a fight between SM and the Trio should be.
If somebody is really gonna argue that DD or CA can take a hit from Spider-Man - that is a Spider-Man not holding back thank you very much - well, then he/she is an idiot.
Originally posted by leonidas
a sound reason - speaking of what SHOULD be based on characters and stats - he's WAYYY stronger than any of them (all at or about peak human, spidey 20-25X stronger), he is WAYYY faster than any of them
Slightly faster, as noted by spidey himself.
Originally posted by leonidas
(all about peak human/olympic level, spidey superhuman), spidey sense, long range weapons that only wolverine has a chance to deal with,
Ok so what i'm guessing is that you saw how wolvie dealt with the webbing and decided he actually has a chance of dealing with it, now did you consider that cap, an equally good fighter, carries a shield or two (photon shield,) and that daredevil has enhanced senses?
Originally posted by leonidas
has defeated countless foes tougher than any one of them,
so have these three.
Originally posted by leonidas
(ie defeated the sinister 6 by himself - and i think the sinister 6 could beat these 3 combined though it'd be a great battle).
Cap has put a swift end to a few of the six himself.
Originally posted by leonidas
(but you'll argue that spidey isn't faster, and some other stuff about how they've beaten him one on one because i (and others) are discrediting their individual abilities and because wolvies skeleton is unbreakable 🙂 eh. whatever. i did say he wouldn't beat them all. i said based on stats he is CAPABLE of beating them all.
Sure I agree, he is capable of beating all three, but It really is a snowballs chance in hell.
Originally posted by leonidas
(and if you think politics DOESN'T play a part in all of this, you, my friend, are losing it. spidey doesn't need to be MORE popular. wolvie just has to be as popular as he is. if he wasn't do you REALLY think we'd be having this discussion? wolvie would have fallen by the way side with nomad and countless others like him. i also said popularity doesn't detract from practical/in-book results - they just help explain them.
This part really makes no sense, Wolvie won or tied 'cause he's less popular?
Originally posted by who?-kid
I always said that, if the Trio works as a team and works with a good plan, Spider-Man is as good as dead. No way he can defeat them.
Thank you for conceding, Captain america is the best leader in the world. The trio wins by your logic. All hail who kid, putting the spidey fanboys to rest!
Originally posted by who?-kid
But if they just happen to fight without preptime, Spider-Man needs only one punch to knock down CA and DD, who do NOT have superhuman durability (well, maybe a very little).
Go find me 1 book where cap needed prep to direct a team.
And you obviously forgot that Cap has a vibranium shield and DD has super senses.
Originally posted by who?-kid
The only reason these things won't happen in comics, is because nobody wants to pay to see a fight where Spider-Man knocks DD lights out with one punch.
You mean like the one where we saw where he took Spidey's full on punch rather well?
Originally posted by who?-kid
But here comic rules don't apply.
Oh that's right because we're arguing movies right? or was it produce. ALL MUST OBEY THE LAWS OF PRODUCE!!!!
Originally posted by who?-kid
Here we (try to) forget all the errors made by writers, and try to come up with a plausible scenario how a fight between SM and the Trio should be.
Just 'cause you don't like it, doesn't make it an error.
Originally posted by who?-kid
If somebody is really gonna argue that DD or CA can take a hit from Spider-Man - that is a Spider-Man not holding back thank you very much - well, then he/she is an idiot.
That's your strongest arguement, but I'm sorry it doesn't mean much, ALL these characters hold back. Cap can kill most men in single punch. Wolvie leaves the claws in. I'll give you DD though, he only holds back a little.
Originally posted by jinzin
"You never gave me an actual sound reason why Spidey can't cause severe internal bleeding to each of these guys. No offense buddy "actually we already debated this....quite a few times...in various threads.....I'm not going to again...sorry...
Sorry I missed it, but.... I don't see how such a question could demand an entire debate. If any of these guys can bleed to death and Spidey can overpower them all and move faster than all of them, then it should be obvious that they would be crushed by this powerhouse.
Spidey is extremely skilled at combat of every kind and to say he isn't despite countless SOLO battles against POWERFUL enemies for 15 years SOLID is denial.
If you where to take Cap. America and give him 20x his strength he would not beat Spider-man easily. He would equal Spidey in speed at least but Spider-sense and webbing are advantages Spidey holds.
Give DD, Cap, and wolverine a strong enough blow and they will hemmorage wherever they were hit and unless you can show me anywhere where their superhuman durability has been noted and not just displayed. If you just want to use display logic then I refer to Spidey being rejected by death after a fight with Thanos and that would make him like lobo right? Stupid yes?
I'm not trying to reduce these guys to Bios but it sounds like you're saying that they're completely irrelavent. Spidey can hit them anywhere harder than a car hitting a still target, true? A gorilla can dismember a man but Spidey who's only 15x as strong can't do it 15x easier just because the man's in good shape?
You're severely underestimating what it means to mix Super-strength with regular agility, much less inhuman agility. These weaklings get smashed, Cap first.
Originally posted by The MISTER
Sorry I missed it, but.... I don't see how such a question could demand an entire debate. If any of these guys can bleed to death and Spidey can overpower them all and move faster than all of them, then it should be obvious that they would be crushed by this powerhouse.Spidey is extremely skilled at combat of every kind and to say he isn't despite countless SOLO battles against POWERFUL enemies for 15 years SOLID is denial.
If you where to take Cap. America and give him 20x his strength he would not beat Spider-man easily. He would equal Spidey in speed at least but Spider-sense and webbing are advantages Spidey holds.
Give DD, Cap, and wolverine a strong enough blow and they will hemmorage wherever they were hit and unless you can show me anywhere where their superhuman durability has been noted and not just displayed. If you just want to use display logic then I refer to Spidey being rejected by death after a fight with Thanos and that would make him like lobo right? Stupid yes?
I'm not trying to reduce these guys to Bios but it sounds like you're saying that they're completely irrelavent. Spidey can hit them anywhere harder than a car hitting a still target, true? A gorilla can dismember a man but Spidey who's only 15x as strong can't do it 15x easier just because the man's in good shape?
You're severely underestimating what it means to mix Super-strength with regular agility, much less inhuman agility. These weaklings get smashed, Cap first.
I've been debating these points for freaking 90 some odd pages..but you know what..I think you actually did a better job of it in the 7 paragraphs listed above...Good post mister..I think its time to end this debate..
<<This part really makes no sense, Wolvie won or tied 'cause he's less popular?>>
nope, he's (won??) or tied because he has a fan base big enough to dictate his place in the marvel pantheon. it's why he has beaten so many foes that it seems illogical for him to have beaten. seriously, if you don't think sales and popularity of character plays an issue in what stories are written, well . . . (shrugs)
<<Sure I agree, he is capable of beating all three, but It really is a snowballs chance in hell.>>
i never said it would be easy - i've said all along, based purely on stats and what each character is logically capable of, that spidey could win this fight. i'm glad you finally agree. my job here is done. 🙂
Originally posted by The MISTER
Sorry I missed it, but.... I don't see how such a question could demand an entire debate. If any of these guys can bleed to death and Spidey can overpower them all and move faster than all of them, then it should be obvious that they would be crushed by this powerhouse.
Then why hasn't he?
Originally posted by The MISTER
Spidey is extremely skilled at combat of every kind and to say he isn't despite countless SOLO battles against POWERFUL enemies for 15 years SOLID is denial.
Oh that's right, I remember that comic now, the one were it says that spidey is skilled at "every kind" of combat. yeah that's right, he fought that one guy and he started with a boxer's upper-cut, rounded him up with hap ki do kick and ended him with a judo sweep... No wait, I made that up, just like you must have.
Originally posted by The MISTER
If you where to take Cap. America and give him 20x his strength he would not beat Spider-man easily. He would equal Spidey in speed at least but Spider-sense and webbing are advantages Spidey holds.
If you gave Cap 20x his strength against spidey he would kill spidey with one hit even if he hit him in the leg.
Originally posted by The MISTER
Give DD, Cap, and wolverine a strong enough blow and they will hemmorage wherever they were hit and unless you can show me anywhere where their superhuman durability has been noted and not just displayed. If you just want to use display logic then I refer to Spidey being rejected by death after a fight with Thanos and that would make him like lobo right? Stupid yes?
Sorry, two of those guys have already taken that punch and no such thing has happened. And your spidey analagy really makes no sense.
Originally posted by The MISTER
I'm not trying to reduce these guys to Bios but it sounds like you're saying that they're completely irrelavent. Spidey can hit them anywhere harder than a car hitting a still target, true? A gorilla can dismember a man but Spidey who's only 15x as strong can't do it 15x easier just because the man's in good shape?
Bios are ok, but have you ever tried reading a comic?
I'm not sure but I think a few of them have survived a moving car. At least wolvie for sure.
That third part's just foolish, He can't because none of these characters will let him.
Originally posted by The MISTER
You're severely underestimating what it means to mix Super-strength with regular agility, much less inhuman agility. These weaklings get smashed, Cap first.
Cap's been smashed by much more than spidey and he's still just fine.
Originally posted by who?-kid
It is a good post, but it's no use. Some people here only read what they want to read. True masters of ignoring facts.
Gee mister pot, don't get angry, I'm just a kettle.
Originally posted by leonidas
<<This part really makes no sense, Wolvie won or tied 'cause he's less popular?>>nope, he's (won??) or tied because he has a fan base big enough to dictate his place in the marvel pantheon. it's why he has beaten so many foes that it seems illogical for him to have beaten. seriously, if you don't think sales and popularity of character plays an issue in what stories are written, well . . . (shrugs)
So there's no chance in hell he's so popular because he's beaten these characters? Tell me leonidas, do you assume that if you take an umbrella outside, it will surely rain?
Originally posted by leonidas
<<<<Sure I agree, he is capable of beating all three, but It really is a snowballs chance in hell.>>i never said it would be easy - i've said all along, based purely on stats and what each character is logically capable of, that spidey could win this fight. i'm glad you finally agree. my job here is done.
So which arguements are politics and stats on the back of trading cards (which buy the way aren't even stacked against a single character here,) to hell with what actually happens in the comics eh?
And now you're argueing snowballs don't melt in hell, ok whatever.