Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If every person lived up to some unbelievable farfetched version of their power, then there'd be many more candidates for most powerful in the MU. The X-Men bar Jean with Phoenix force are never ever regarded as anything involving "best" because the levels you assume they are capable of will never be reached.
And they are or are not reached based on the writers. Sue has limitless potential - some writers have her reach it. You don't complain about the fact that Sue can create bubbles in someone's brain, right? It's just a logical extension of her powers. This is no different.
"If 98% of the time, he's getting put out by fire extinguishers, and 2% of the time he's flying in space with his flame on...which do you think better qualifies as "shit writing"?"Depends how literal we're being. Wolverine is no match for Torch, him getting the win via fire extinguisher is shit writing. That's my point, not flame outage. The nature of taking the win.
But we're not talking about whether Wolverine could take Torch. We're talking about whether his flames can be put out by certain things. This was an example, among many.
Darkcrawler just proved my point beyond belief.Torch Vs NY Fire dept? Are you gonna say the NY Fire dept? No. Using a fire extinguisher is lame. So is any writer who thought it was appropriate to end the fight that way.
Torch vs. NY Fire dept would be: Torch flies out of their range, and fire blasts them. NY Fire dept. can't fly and can't catch Torch. If Torch stood there flamed on and said, "Do your worst" - could the NYFD put him out? YES.
"Sue has limitless potential - some writers have her reach it. You don't complain about the fact that Sue can create bubbles in someone's brain, right? It's just a logical extension of her powers. This is no different."
Contradiction. You can't reach limits if you have none.
"But we're not talking about whether Wolverine could take Torch. We're talking about whether his flames can be put out by certain things. This was an example, among many. "
Again you dodge the point. The nature of the win, how it happened, not who took it.
"Torch vs. NY Fire dept would be: Torch flies out of their range, and fire blasts them. NY Fire dept. can't fly and can't catch Torch. If Torch stood there flamed on and said, "Do your worst" - could the NYFD put him out? YES."
Hahahahaha.
Well back on Earth for a second.....Torch has flown in the rain.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriYeah I agree it's ridiculous to refer to non-canon events in a debate. That's like someone citing Wolverine's preposterous gutting of the Silver Surfer in that What If issue in a potential Wolvie/SS debate.
I'm gonna use Contest of Champions when someone creates a Gambit Vs Gladiator thread so I can say Gambit would win by throwing cards at his head.CoC was a storyline vehicle man, it's hardly canonical. Going by it or not, it is a bit ignorant to say she could blow his flame out.
-AC
You know for a fact that's not the case.
Colossus, Psylocke, Jean depending, Wolverine here and there, Cyclops on occasion. CYCLOPS.
Proves I don't hate the X-Men. Just think as a concept they are cheap, and rather lame. F4 don't need all those writers and changes. Nor do Avengers (save for the odd member change). X-Men do. Like Vic said, they're just a cash cow being milked constantly.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriSorry to continue straying off topic, but who was the writer? I'm going to go home and check...my best guess...*drumroll* CLAREMONT! LOL!
Didn't wanna bring that up. Being a Surfer fan.However, yes. It is possibly the most ridiculous development in comic history. It involved an X-Man too.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriYeah I agree...I love the X-Men, but I hate it when people (and writers) try to inflate their importance in the MU. Tron said it best the other day...X-Men handle mutant problems, Avengers handle global problems, and the FF handle cosmic problems. Seems that someone in Marvel (likely Claremont) seems hellbent on raising the X-Men's stature to ridiculous levels (with constant powerups etc.) and it just pisses me off sometimes.
You know for a fact that's not the case.Colossus, Psylocke, Jean depending, Wolverine here and there, Cyclops on occasion. CYCLOPS.
Proves I don't hate the X-Men. Just think as a concept they are cheap, and rather lame. F4 don't need all those writers and changes. Nor do Avengers (save for the odd member change). X-Men do. Like Vic said, they're just a cash cow being milked constantly.
-AC
well anyway back on topic- AC we already agreed that torch wouldn't kill storm bu burning her to a crisp since he wouldn't do than. storm can take all his oxygen away in seconds, and he can't create his own so he's screwed. storm will just stop when he is knocked out. she has done it before then why can't she do it again?? storm is very capable of taking out his flame. if she does then all she has to do it knock him out with lihgtning, if she keeps in hitting him then she can do this.