Sexism

I think you're all wrong on this issue. You get many women who do exactly what they do to impress men. These same women will "bust anyone's balls" just because they can. At the same time, they're sexually aggressive as well. The wheel turns both ways friends. It's not only men that will do anything to impress anyone. We all seek approval in our own ways. For those of us who are slightly more aggressive than others, we'll use our rank, our anything, to get what we want, and then probably chuck it away afterwards. That's life. There are tons of women like that. Men too. Who wants to stay at the bottom of the ladder all their lives?

Originally posted by silver_tears
This is mostly for the females out here.....

Does anyone else have this problem that when debating with males they look down upon you? 😒

This is mostly from a school point of view, but we have a debate team and it seems that everytime we practise the males just assume they are right, and are never able to concede defeat to a female. It's like that's the most shameful thing in society, to be outsmarted by a female 🙄

Even here I see it all the time....

It's like " Oh she's just a girl, what could she know about anything?" ranting

I don't have a problem with guys looking down on me at school, usually because I am somewhat more knowledgeable in certain fields of study but only because they refuse to read or study which if they did they could probably be geniuses and surpass me by miles and miles.

Anyway, men do have trouble dating women who are smarter than them I think. Well that's just my opinion, but I've also asked the four boys out of my entire sophomore class and they agree with me.

Originally posted by moneypenny
ja it's me doing the PhD. But regards the wage issues, over here in South Africa, women are actually pretty well paid, often more than their male colleagues. Our Employment Equity Bill pretty much sorted that out for us which is nice. I think though that women shouldn't just expect better wages or better treatment or whatever, it's something they need to work for. I think you should get paid on your output and productivity and the quality of your work. I know many women who whine about earning less than men. It's strange how these women are often the one's who aren't really willing to put in extra hours for a project or work weekends or overtime. Their reasons vary from having to look after the kids and safety when driving home. The bottom line is that you should (theoretically) be paid for what you produce. This isn't always the case but women do tend to have a nasty habit of playing the victim in circumstances like this. Nothing makes me angrier. I work hard, and get paid well. BUT, I am also willing to go the extra mile to produce. I will never use my gender to get me perks (for want of a better word). I don't expect preferential treatment just because I'm a woman. My whole department here at work is like that (we're mostly women) and our reputation in industry is phenomenal. I mean, I sit in research board meetings where I'm not only the youngest person there, I'm also the only woman and the only one who isn't a professor yet. Makes no difference. My views are respected and everyone else there looks out for me when I need it. Maybe it's just that in SA people are more aware of this kind of thing now, 10 years after our first democratic elections. Women have really become high priority on this side of the planet.

Hmmm...I sure had a mouthful to say on this, probably because my thoughts aren't that organised.

I'm happy to hear women's wage situation seems to be so good in south africa. I didn't know. sadly, this is still the only country I'm aware of having dealt so effectively with the problem.

women shouldn't be treated better because they're women. and they aren't. it's the other way around: men are treated better because they're men.
to be paid for what you produce is a very masculine way of dealing with wages. I agree that it would be the most fair way to deal with it, and probably very good for the company too, but exactly how will you measure the different qualities of an emplyee? sure, you can always pay them extra for working late, for doing extra courses, etc. things you can see and handle. but how about the employee, who's just a brilliant colleque? who backs up her/his colleques, helping them to produce more? who do things, you cannot measure? such a person would usually be female. thing is, that women's situation's still not good enough for such a way of measuring out payment; you say that their excuses are their kids for one thing. well, their husbands sure as hell won't pick them up after school, won't stay home when their sick, won't take leave when they're babies, course if they don't work extra, they don't earn extra. and that is perfectly fine with everyone. but if the woman asks the man to stay at home looking after the kids, she's a terrible parent. that's still the common opponion. besides, women are still the ones getting pregnant, bearing children, looking after them when they're still very small. society needs to acknowledge that. companies need to be more flexible, so that mothers too can work extra, such as letting them work at home, having kindergardens at work, forcing men to stay at home with their new borns longer, etc. untill then, women just can't compete with men on wages if the wages are measured like that. that's still too much a system made for and by men, favourising them.

I'm glad to hear you enjoy such respect at your board. but doesn't it suggest an inequality that you happen to be the only woman?

Does anyone else have this problem that when debating with males they look down upon you

Originally posted by fever red
Hmm, yes, I do sometimes find that boys assume I'm one. But why is the default assumption male? OK, I suppose we ALL see one another as more or less mirrors or inverses.

what ever language you look at, you'll always find that the word for humanity in general is the word for 'man'. also, when reading a text, the writer will practically always adress you as 'he'.
the assumption that the male gender is the basis, the normality, is part of our language and thus also part of how we regard each other. the woman is the 'anormality'. when the word 'she' is used in a text instead of 'he', it's usually a text on cooking, shoe shopping or nail polish, that is, in a text adressed directly at women. not philosophy, car maintenance, politics, etc. etc. etc., which should be adreesed to both genders. therefore, when we do not know a persons gender, we assume it to be male. simply because male is the basis. the norm. female is 'the other', what's different from the norm. you can always force a woman in under the term 'he', but never a man under the term 'she'. course it's the womans job to become the rule instead of the exception, to identify with what's normal, not what's abnormal.

deary me. philosophy always makes my brain jump. hopefully it made sense none the less.

Line: Yes, you've made some pretty good points with what you've said. There is perhaps not full equality yet but we are working on it and our employment equity act has made it mandatory that these issues are addressed. The process is slow, but Rome wasn't built in a day 🙂
With regards to what you said on women and looking after kiddies, that's true also. Here you often find, due to the EE act, that many men are currently unemployed, so you do have a reversal of traditional family roles where women go to work, and men become stay-at-home dads. It's happening more and more and not many people frown on these women. I think our political history (apartheid - which also discriminated heavily against women in general as well as people of colour) has ensured that our entire nation is more aware of discrimination and therefore we all became more "tolerant" (for want of a better word) towards these issues. The situation is looking more and more positive for all previously disadvantaged or discriminated against people. The collapse of apartheid has definitely pushed us towards one of the few countries were previous inequalities are addressed as part of the building of a new nation.
Finti: My tops are usually not buttoned all the way or low-cut 🙂 They still don't talk down to me - thank goodness. Actually, maybe that's why they're so tolerant towards me. I think my temper might help as well 🙂

great to hear that discrimination is a subject taken seriously. that's often lacking in other countries 🙂

I know. We have other things to worry about here though. A developing nation has many other problems once discrimination is dealt with.

well, if there's no discrimination, at least there's more people allowed, expected and encouraged to help out 🙂

Originally posted by fever red
There's more to a man than his achievements- his intentions are the most important to most women.

That's a female peculiarity. Take the way a woman reacts to a plot to kill her - the intent is considered important.

Originally posted by Line
well, if there's no discrimination, at least there's more people allowed, expected and encouraged to help out 🙂

In theory, yes. Non-discrimination sometimes means that people just expect things even though they're not willing to help out or make a contribution.

those do exist, yes.

Originally posted by shaber
That's a female peculiarity. Take the way a woman reacts to a plot to kill her - the intent is considered important.

It's not important to YOU what someone INTENDS to do with/to you? This doesn't figure into YOUR assessment of someone's utility/desirability?
Weighed beside actual behavior, intention couldn't possibly have much relevence, I agree- but to evaluate the potential of a person to fufill a role in your life, you may want to delve into their intentions. Often intentions and actions DO correlate.
What I wanted to communicate was this: a man can offer things of more value to me than money/status.

Oddly enough at my school the girls look down on the guys.....

Oddly enough at my school the girls look down on the guys.....

but what's the fun in that 🙁