[QUOTE=5814925]Originally posted by thegmeister53
Let me put it this way: he is slow as balls in game. Just because he has to be turned down so that everything isn't in bullet time doesn't mean that he has to be so freakin' slow or have such a low jump, but he does.
So you're telling me that my statement is stupid? It's right on the damn mark. Congratulations, you have encountered several INSTANCES where you can be stealthy. If the Chief is so fast and strong he should never have to resort to a gun. That could save much needed ammo for the war. But much of the time he must resort to using guns to win. If I had his speed, strength, and suit, then I wouldn't really have to worry, I would simply run up behind someone nail them in the back of their head an continue on, not engage in a needless firefight.
I think it would be more accurate to say that you are the one flaunting your idiocy. Don't try to use the tank arguments. They are so retarded. I don't consider that to be an amazing feat. If I had seen him in a cutscene or something manage to lift an entire tank above his head, then I would be impressed. Even if I had seen him do something like that in the books I would have still been impressed. And if he is able to flip over a scorpion tank, then why did it take so much effort to move the bomb into the elevator in Halo 2? He should have been able to do it with one hand. I have a different sense of what I consider an amazing feat. The only thing that the situation with the bomb tells me is one thing, he is lucky. In Fall of Reach Dr. Halsey even says that he is not the strongest or the fastest. He is the luckiest. I don't consider being lucky enough to warrant that an amazing feat.
Again you assume we have the same sense of an amazing feat with the scorpion missile situation. He barely survived that. He states quite clearly that he can't outrun it. He was again lucky to survive that. If it hadn't been for Cortana the Chief would have been dead. When you say he won you make it sound like it was all skill, when it really wasn't. And who gives a shit that he is strong enough to kill an elite in one hit from behind. If he is so damn strong he should be able to do it from the front too. Why not? Because the elite is battle ready and will be expecting? That is still not that amazing. Dodging bullets to a small extent hmm..... I wonder what that little thing that we see Samus do is called where she avoids enemy fire... I got it! It's called dodging!
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First of all like I said before, if the Chief was to run as fast as he does in the book than the game would be stupid. This also goes for your argument about why he shouldn't have to use a gun if he was so strong. You know why? Because if MC didn't use a gun than the game would suck.... obviously. It's called a first person shooter not Splinter Cell. And it seems like you think that having Cortana is unfair in this fight. Well thats like me saying that Samus having armor is unfair. Cortana is just part of Master Chiefs suit, so don't argue about that. And how could you not be impressed by MC flipping over a 66 TON Tank?
When I talked about MC running so fast, I was talking about the books, not the games. That sends your gun argument to hell also. And actually Samus having a suit is not unfair because so does MC, where as Cortana is a separate entity. I actually have no problem with Cortana being with MC, except that people keep arguing a pointless thing about if she can hack Samus or not. The reason that I brought up Cortana is because she was the reason that MC survived almost all those situations. If it weren't for her MC would have died long before that, but Samus has survived and performed amazing feats entirely on her own. Well, the thing about the tank is that there is no bang when I see it. When I watched MC destroy Halo, I at least got a sense like "damn, this guy is tough as nails," when I was actively taking part in flipping the tank it seems kind of meaningless. I mean you use the tank, fall out, and just flip it over and get back in. It's not that impressive to me. You could probably say the same thing about like Samus's grapple beam, but that is just plain cool swinging across gaps.
[QUOTE=5815325][i]Originally posted by thegmeister53
When I talked about MC running so fast, I was talking about the books, not the games. That sends your gun argument to hell also.
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So are you saying that the books wouldn't be boring if none of the Spartans used guns?
It would, but it would actually make sense. I mean would you seriously want to take any chance of being hit when you could just run up behind your enemies and end the fight in less than a minute? Don't try to use the same argument twice about how MC doesn't run fast in the game because they had to dumb it down. In the books that is no excuse that it would simply be boring.
What about in the very beginning of the Fall of Reach when there were 2000 grunts. Do you expect 4 Spartans to run up to each of the 2000 grunts and kill them individually? And the book was based on the game, and being that the game was a 1st person shooter than obviously they should have used guns in the books also.
Originally posted by thegmeister53
Let me put it this way: he is slow as balls in game. Just because he has to be turned down so that everything isn't in bullet time doesn't mean that he has to be so freakin' slow or have such a low jump, but he does.
Originally posted by thegmeister
So you're telling me that my statement is stupid? It's right on the damn mark. Congratulations, you have encountered several INSTANCES where you can be stealthy. If the Chief is so fast and strong he should never have to resort to a gun. That could save much needed ammo for the war. But much of the time he must resort to using guns to win.
I'd rather fancy shooting a charging, enraged Brute than having to face it down with only fists, don't you think? Even augmented strength would not save him entirely from a situation under those kind of circumstances.
Guns add to his deadliness. Throwing them away would decrease his killing efficiency by a substantial amount. The suit makes him strnog, protects him, and grants him a slight boost to his reactions. And Chief is not stupid enough to decrease his efficiency.
Originally posted by thegmeister
If I had his speed, strength, and suit, then I wouldn't really have to worry, I would simply run up behind someone nail them in the back of their head an continue on, not engage in a needless firefight.
Again, efficiency.
I personally defy you to go try and beat the game using only melee.
Seems a lot harder, doesn't it?
Originally posted by thegmeister
I think it would be more accurate to say that you are the one flaunting your idiocy. Don't try to use the tank arguments. They are so retarded. I don't consider that to be an amazing feat. If I had seen him in a cutscene or something manage to lift an entire tank above his head, then I would be impressed. Even if I had seen him do something like that in the books I would have still been impressed. And if he is able to flip over a scorpion tank, then why did it take so much effort to move the bomb into the elevator in Halo 2? He should have been able to do it with one hand. I have a different sense of what I consider an amazing feat.
Those situations are one and the same, technically speaking.
So what you just said is that you'd find it impressive, yet not be impressed one bit by the exact same thing. I'm not sure how that makes sense to you, but okay. I'll choose to ignore that for now.
As for the bomb:
If it contains enough explosive to easily annihilate a Covenant carrier a thousand times its size, then it should weigh about the same as a Scorpion tank.
Which do you think would take more force: dragging a tank with parking brake on or lifting it up and flipping it over?
There's a little thing called friction, g. And those spikes on the bomb are digging into the metal floor and causing it to flag.
And that's why it's taking the Chief more effort.
Originally posted by thegmeister
The only thing that the situation with the bomb tells me is one thing, he is lucky. In Fall of Reach Dr. Halsey even says that he is not the strongest or the fastest. He is the luckiest. I don't consider being lucky enough to warrant that an amazing feat.
But that doesn't mean that he's not at all strong or not at all fast, or good at aiming, nor any other specific traits.
What the good Doctor here was implying was that he was not the champion in those fields. He's not #1, in other words. He could still be strong, still be fast. It simply means that he's not quite as strong as Sam, not quite as fast as Kelly.
And I find it hard to believe that directing the bomb directly into the gullet of a Covenant carrier was merely a stroke of good fortune.
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Originally posted by thegmeister
Again you assume we have the same sense of an amazing feat with the scorpion missile situation. He barely survived that. He states quite clearly that he can't outrun it. He was again lucky to survive that. If it hadn't been for Cortana the Chief would have been dead. When you say he won you make it sound like it was all skill, when it really wasn't. And who gives a shit that he is strong enough to kill an elite in one hit from behind. If he is so damn strong he should be able to do it from the front too. Why not? Because the elite is battle ready and will be expecting? That is still not that amazing.
I already implied that he already couldn't outrun it, could you not see the speed of the missile that I said?
Yes, Cortana was a load of help in surviving that missile. But Chief here had a lot of part in it too. Cortana needed to factor him his reaction time and the inbound velocity of the missile and needed to tell him exactly when to react.
However, as soon as she said: "Now!", in that tiny nanosecond that probably felt like a minute, it was all up to the Chief and his own reactions. Cortana did give him some hint when to dodge, but she likely wasn't 100% with Chief's reactions, otherwise he would have dodged it completely. I'd say give credit to Chief for managing to survive that.
Which do you think would cause more damage, hitting a tensed-up Elite in the gut or hitting a relaxed Elite in the spine?
There's a little thing called the ribcage that makes it harder to damage the spine from the front by melee means than it is from behind. Which might answer some of those inqueries.
Originally posted by thegmeister
Dodging bullets to a small extent hmm..... I wonder what that little thing that we see Samus do is called where she avoids enemy fire... I got it! It's called dodging!
Originally posted by thegmeister
You still over estimate MC's worth with how he was able to destroy two Halo's. That I will admit is actually an amazing feat, but you're forgetting that Samus has done so much more. She single handedly eliminated the metroids. She also crashed the space station into SR388. She eliminated Kraid, Ridley, and Mother Brain multiple times. What would MC do in that situation? Run fast, get close, hit Mother Brain, and do the same thing over?
Single handedly eliminating the Metroids is not unlike blowing up a ancient construct, built by a long-dead race.
Neither is crashing a space station into a planet.
And it depends on what MC is armed with in that type of situation.
Originally posted by thegmeister
Samus also is single handedly eliminating the Space Pirates, while MC does handle certain things by himself, is he able to handle the Covenant all by himself? Only to a certain degree. And what is your excuse for how she kills enemies upon contact?
I assume you mean a battalion, not the while race.
Anyways, Chief has jumped in situations like that by himself before; if you've played the level Regret in Halo 2, you'll know what I mean.
Killing enemies upon contact?
You mean touching them? I assume you mean the speed booster or the screw attack. Both are capable weapons in those types of situations, but they actually alter energy composition, Samus cannot be like that all the time.
Neither Chief nor Samus can kill enemies upon simply touching them as they normally are, otherwise they'd be hailed as gods.
That would be fun though to be considered a god....
About the space pirates thing I meant it more like she is in the process of eliminating them. They are currently on the run from her. I doubt that Samus would be able to eliminate the entire race so quickly and easily.
I have to partially disagree with you on the point about speed booster and screw attack. The speed booster does take a few seconds to activate, however the screw attack executes simply as soon as Samus jumps so it is much potent for close personal contact. The speed booster attack is more along the lines of attempting to race somewhere and just happening to destroy whatever crosses your path.
I do consider that to be an amazing feat in the regret level. That entire sequence felt like a movie. I also never said that eliminating Halo wasn't an amazing feat, I was simply pointing out that Samus has eliminated planets. The metroid argument is a little weird. I don't really think that it's comparable to blowing up an ancient construct because Samus is single handedly eliminating every metroid in existence including the queen metroid, the Chief has also performed amazing feats, but he so far has been unable to eliminate the flood.
And isn't dodging weapons fire the same thign as dodging bullets? I understand what you're saying about the Chief in regards to the scorpion missile, but if Cortana hadn't told him when to hit it, then he wouldn't have survived. I also understand that there is a difference between the gut and the spine, but if MC is really as powerful as he is made out to be then it shouldn't make much of a difference in what area that the elite is hit. I could also use your own arguments against you about me beating the whole thing with melee. The Chief had to be turned down in the game to make it more even. But if he doesn't do it in the books or the games, then I'm inclined to believe that he isn't as fast as he is said to be.
Well, whatever you want to call the situation with the bomb I still believe it to be luck with a bit of skill, but not much. And yes, I don't consider doing something in game a feat because it could just have been a simple game mechanic put in to move the game along. You see what I mean? If it were actually implemented into a cutscene or talked about or done in the book I could see what you're saying but simply running up to a tank and flipping it over instantly just seems a little weak. I don't think that it is part of the canon because it is not talked about or shown at all.
You are also going on the assumption that size or weight equals power. Remember, this is science fiction so anything is possible. If I remember correctly, the Covenant ships are much smaller than the human ones, and yet they are able to easily decimate the human fleet. Just going on that it can be said that the bomb wasn't that heavy. And while the forerunners may not be anywhere near advanced as the Chozo, I think that they could come up with a way to make a light, compact, and deadly bomb. I know what friction is. But again Chief could have just picked it up and walked across the room. You keep talking about friction as if that determines everything. Somebody of MC's supposed strength should be able to handle that bomb.
You are also not comprehending what I mean by the Chief being slow as balls. Are you telling me that they couldn't even make him a little faster or jump a little higher? Samus runs faster and jumps higher than he does. I don't think that it would have been too much to ask for a small increase in strength and speed, but that still didn't happen in Halo 2. He was barely faster than he was in Halo.
Originally posted by thegmeister53
The reason that I brought up Cortana is because she was the reason that MC survived almost all those situations. If it weren't for her MC would have died long before that, but Samus has survived and performed amazing feats entirely on her own.
LOL!!! You've read the books! chief was in combat several times without cortana.. She helps do all the background stuff like ringing for taxis,... reading the maps.. So chief just has to run and gun...
Could you see SA do anything without her visor?? She wouldn't know up from down if she didn't scan it and get its life story.. Only reason she wins her fights cause the visor tells her everythings weakness...
"Durrrr SA... Your normal guns won't work.... USE the superbombs... derbba derbb..."
Halo was designed for multiplayer.. the speed is kept at that people can play it.. could you see sonic being a 1st person shooter multiplayer game??? bombing around shooting??? It wouldn't work.. Your eyes wouldn't be able to deal with the speed...
[QUOTE=5816392]Originally posted by thegmeister53
And isn't dodging weapons fire the same thign as dodging bullets? I understand what you're saying about the Chief in regards to the scorpion missile, but if Cortana hadn't told him when to hit it, then he wouldn't have survived. I also understand that there is a difference between the gut and the spine, but if MC is really as powerful as he is made out to be then it shouldn't make much of a difference in what area that the elite is hit. I could also use your own arguments against you about me beating the whole thing with melee. The Chief had to be turned down in the game to make it more even. But if he doesn't do it in the books or the games, then I'm inclined to believe that he isn't as fast as he is said to be.
Well, whatever you want to call the situation with the bomb I still believe it to be luck with a bit of skill, but not much. And yes, I don't consider doing something in game a feat because it could just have been a simple game mechanic put in to move the game along. You see what I mean? If it were actually implemented into a cutscene or talked about or done in the book I could see what you're saying but simply running up to a tank and flipping it over instantly just seems a little weak. I don't think that it is part of the canon because it is not talked about or shown at all.
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If the Master Chief could just walk up to any Elite in the game and melee him, don't you think it would be a bit too easy? And I think the reason why MC didn't just pick up the bomb (besides the reasons mentioned before) is that it would of looked kind of ridiculous. I mean, I think it looks more realistic when he drags it.... if I were him thats what I would do.
Again Cortana's "ringing for taxis" has given the Chief just the back up that he needs. He would have without a doubt died several times if it weren't for Cortana. I also know that Chief has been able to survive without her, it's just that he would not have come so far without her. But don't you also think that it's a little strange that Chief needs Cortana to ring maps and look at data for him? Samus can do that all by herself.
And you know nothing of Samus. Why would Samus not have her visor? It's simply a part of her. Unlike Cortana who is separated from MC several times. Samus can still win her fights without her visor. It simply provides advice to Samus, much like Cortana does for MC. You are basically implying that Samus is stupid. I could also say that the only reason that MC can do anything is because he received military training. The point is that it's a half-assed argument. I see no reason to take away Samus's visor. Samus does EVERYTHING by herself, she does not require an entire fleet of ships or AI to save her ass. Before you were arguing that Samus is an idiot compared to MC because he could do all kinds of mathematical equations in his head, and then you put down Samus simply because she gathers info? How many times has Cortana given MC advice? In like every situation he has Cortana there to back him up in some way or another.