I believe someone is mixing some stuff up here...
the german troops didn't do such crimes, they had no instructions for this and if it happened it was due to the soldier himself.
What did happen, was that there was this project somewhere in Germany under the leadership of that insane doctor that did surgeries on twins and such, to create more and pure German-kids (blond hair, blue eyes, what ever the english name is)
'Letting your soldiers sleep with women in the middle of a war isnt a bright idea' and refused to believe it. But believe me, its true, after being shown several different resources all of which stated it was true, i believed it.whats this load of crap, coming from a country that was conquered by the Germans during WWII I have never heard of such things. Sure some German soldiers found love among women form the conquered territories, but the Nazis was hysterical about the right breed. So not too many of the places they conquered would pass their eye of the needle as a breeding ground for their "master race". My country would fit it though since the Nazi progaganda machine drooled all over the Scandinavian look, but there has been very few stories of German soldiers violating the local girls. Both from Norway and Denmark
Every war has reports of crimes agains't humanity. We can't really know whether the soldiers did it or not unless evidence is presented. Armies raiding a city and killing, raping, stealing isn't new. It has happen since the dawn of history that soldiers commit atrocities. Whether the Army is American or European or African...etc. there will be reports of crimes committed agaisn't civilians. For every war there is there will always be crimes committed.
America is one of the most disciplined Military systems in the world. Of course you are going to have a few loose cannons here and there. This is inevitable, because the soldiers are every day people, though the military changes personalities, it still doesn't change the essence of the person. When you are ordered to go and kill certain people or destroy certain things, you have to, or face prison time. These actions may appear as thuggish, but are actually a great example of their discipline. Many people make this war in Iraq out to look like thatAmerican and English soldiers (more so American) are killing innocent civilians. Many of these civilians you hear about getting killed in Iraq, are getting killed by there own people, or pull a gun on American soldiers, I am sorry, but if a child pulls an automatic weapon on a soldier, they more than deserve to get shot dead. I am not saying that there have been bombings by American and allied forces that have killed Civilians, but this is the cause and effect of war, even if there is no real cause. T
he soldiers are being told they must do this to defend their country, i can tell you from growing up on military bases, not many soldiers do the things they do for their country, but for their fellow soldiers, or because they are faced with danger, and have to respond. If they don't, they wil be dead, or in prison.
Strange. I go to the last page of a thread entitled “Are American troops undisciplined thugs dressed as soldiers?”, and find talk about GERMAN soldiers???
Did someone go “Well, okay so some US troops are bad – but so are…”???
(Reads on an nods to self)
Anyways… The answer is of course “SOME are.” How on Earth someone can generalise a group of young men as either/or eludes me.
Finti> Not every German soldier during WWII was a Nazi. I’m sure you know that.
Finti> Not every German soldier during WWII was a Nazi. I’m sure you know that.thats why I deliberatly wrote german soldiers to distance them from the nazis.
Sure some German soldiers found love among women form the conquered territories, but the Nazis was hysterical about the right breed. So not too many of the places they conquered would pass their eye of the needle as a breeding ground for their "master race". My country would fit it though since the Nazi progaganda machine drooled all over the Scandinavian look, but there has been very few stories of German soldiers violating the local girls..
Originally posted by Mr Zero
HEy! Guess what - anyone saying "if your going to badmouth our troops..STFU!!!" - did it never occur to you that freedom of speech is - according to the US president - one of the liberties that this war is about?Nobody is under any illusion that under combat conditions things happen that the public dont know about - and this instance seems like it's probably a ground clearance where you put 2 bullets into any prone "corpse" just to make sure its not doggo - its in the army HANDBOOK for petes sake.
But the whole "the enemy would do the same so we have to" argument and "support our troops or shut up" is worse than supporting the war. In a moral minefield like this conflict the moment you adopt enemy tactics through choice, or begin to say that expressing any non supportive viewpoint is wrong - you become worse than the thing you are fighting. Worse yet, you have lost the REAL war you are fighting - the war for "liberation"
So could you ignorant assholes please STFU. Thanks.
MORALS, in WAR!? Have you ever even seen two armies at war? It's kill or be killed, there is no morals. How do you attach morals to something like murder? It's illogical. We murder them before they murder us. That's the way it is, and always has been. It's basic survival instincts for ****'s sake. Attaching morals to a war is just ridiculous. Attach morals to everday civil life, not war. If you haven't noticed yet, "civil war" is an oxymoron.
That "REAL war" you speak of, and the war that goes on on the battlefield are two VERY different things. Next time someone has a machine gun pointed at you, see how far thinking about how to get out of the situation morally will get you.
And you just grouped 2 different arguments into one, which doesn't look good for you. I never said "support our troops or STFU!" but you took a nearly direct quote from me and bunched it in with your "don't stoop to their level" babble.
Remeber how far fighting with morals got the British troops in the Revolutionary War? History is there to teach us the mistakes that were made in the past.
You know, it might have been ''kill or be killed'' some few hundred years ago with ''two armies at war''
That bullshit doesnt exist anymore - now its ''bomb the civilians - kill the civilians - burn down the buildings - hide in the burnt down buildings and wait for an enemy solder to show up.'' THATS todays war.
Did you also know that 80% of war victims are actually civilians?
Its funny you should talk about 'real war', but while you're at it, have YOU seen the real war? Ever lived through it? No? How can you even begin to preach of what ''real war'' is?
Theres no such thing just war. But. There has to be some morality involved. Do you ever wonder why people are accused of war crimes, or didn't that ever occur to you? Attaching morals to war is not rediculous - Killing of an unarmed civilian is NOT moral, necessary or justified in any way. Key words being ''unarmed civilian'' Oh yeah, im sure he was a huge threat to soldier with a machine gun.
I didn't say anything about killing unarmed civlians did I? No, I didn't so half of your argument is void. And anyway, there are Iraqi supporters executing our civilians all the time! ON CAMERA to show to the victim's families. Or haven't you seen the news reports?
It's MURDER, two armies are out to murder each other, you can't make murder moral however hard you try.
No, I havne't been there, but I've taken the time to research the subject, way before this thread was ever made. I've seen atrocious acts and horrible things that changed my views(yes, I once thought like you), and those were only pictures! Imagine what it's like out there in the heat of battle.
And apparently you haven't heard the reports of Iraqi soldiers disguising themselves as unarmed civilians, and then opening fire when American troops try to help them.
I'm not trying to get you to support the war, i'm trying to get you to understand that war is no joke, it's no place to be civilized and ask people nicely to shoot them. It's STILL "kill or be killed" whether you want to see it that way or not, it's always been that way, it's basic animal instinct(believe it or not, humans are animals). Survival of the fittest.