Are American troops undisciplined thugs dressed as soldiers?

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
I didn't say anything about killing unarmed civlians did I? No, I didn't so half of your argument is void. And anyway, there are Iraqi supporters executing our civilians all the time! ON CAMERA to show to the victim's families. Or haven't you seen the news reports?

It's MURDER, two armies are out to murder each other, you can't make murder moral however hard you try.

No, I havne't been there, but I've taken the time to research the subject, way before this thread was ever made. I've seen atrocious acts and horrible things that changed my views(yes, I once thought like you), and those were only pictures! Imagine what it's like out there in the heat of battle.

And apparently you haven't heard the reports of Iraqi soldiers disguising themselves as unarmed civilians, and then opening fire when American troops try to help them.

I'm not trying to get you to support the war, i'm trying to get you to understand that war is no joke, it's no place to be civilized and ask people nicely to shoot them. It's STILL "kill or be killed" whether you want to see it that way or not, it's always been that way, it's basic animal instinct(believe it or not, humans are animals). Survival of the fittest.

Wait, YOU are trying to teach ME that war is not a joke?! I have lived through a war, 2 wars even, what can YOU possibly teach ME about the war? Nothing.

I dont get what the hell you're talking about, did you even read my post?! 80% of people killed in the war ARE civilians - unarmed ones - women raped, children murdered - and please take a look at the theme of this thread.

And do you release what you're saying?! Do you? Yeah someone who invaded my country is trying to (somehow) help me. Yey! I think we love American soldiers on our grounds. WTF?! If someone invades your country, of course you are gonna goddamned defend yourself - Americans are helping Americans - I know it, the rest of the world knows it, but some people just cant seem to get to grips with that.

And no shit, humans are animals - we are a social animal, for your information - we have the skills other animals do not - yet lets take an animal for example - when a leader of pack of wolves is challanged by another wolf, they will fight untill one of them backs off and shows defeat - the fight is then over. In humans however, if an oponent shows a weakness, the enemy will beat it to death! That says a lot about us, doesnt it just?

Kill or be killed? I think in this case is invade and kill - how can you NOT mention killing of the civilans when 80% of people that die in the war are civilans?!

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
And you just grouped 2 different arguments into one, which doesn't look good for you. I never said "support our troops or STFU!" but you took a nearly direct quote from me and bunched it in with your "don't stoop to their level" babble.

"everyone who bashes on their own troops needs to STFU" No - It wasnt you that said it - i didnt say it was you, my comment wasnt directed at you: I said "the people who have been saying.." It's complex to address more than one issue at a time, but its something adults do. sorry if it confuses you.

In all the time you have taken to "research the subject" You have apparently never understood that these soldiers are fighting un-uninformed natives using guerrilla tactics. Yet you say "If he gunned down a civilian, that's on him and he should be reprimanded, but if it was an emey soldier, good." As if it's a video game where the bad guys dress in black. Dont even get me started on "reprimanded"

Your "extensive research" was jerking off while watching Blackhawk Down - am I right?

Here's another statistic for you - For every 1 American soldier that an Iraqi terrorist kills, they kill about 20 iraqi citizens. They'll blow up a building filled with Iraqi citizens just to kill one american soldier that may be inside said building.

Citizens death is a unfortunate part of war. It sucks, but it happens in every war, both sides make mistakes, and for the most part it is not done purposely.

Originally posted by BackFire
Here's another statistic for you - For every 1 American soldier that an Iraqi terrorist kills, they kill about 20 iraqi citizens. They'll blow up a building filled with Iraqi citizens just to kill one american soldier that may be inside said building.

Where did this statisctic come from?

The teacher for my argument class told us. Don't know the exact source though.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Where did this statisctic come from?

Darth Saurons ass? He apparently has an ass full of them.

Im out of this thread. its giving me a nosebleed.

Originally posted by Mr Zero
Darth Saurons ass? He apparently has an ass full of them.

Im out of this thread. its giving me a nosebleed.

Yeah, same.

Originally posted by Mr Zero
Darth Saurons ass? He apparently has an ass full of them.

Im out of this thread. its giving me a nosebleed.

Hmmm...I think his source is a bit more credible then that. For every stat he tells us he will generally give us a source if we want it. This time no one asked though.

It makes perfect sense though. Those terrorists just don't care about life. They do not care if they kill innocent people (as they've shown time and time again), as long as it helps their "cause" they'll gladly wipe out 20 people to get 1 that they want.

Lil: You speak as if I support the war. I don't. But if we are going to be in a war, then that's it, it's war. You can't be moral while killing people. Yes, if, let's say Britain, decided "let's get bush out of office", and a British soldier came up to me wanting to help me get the **** out of here, I'd accept the help. I hate Bush. I didn't say that it was RIGHT that 80% of civilains are war casualties, in fact, I said it wasn't. I said that there are no morals in war. Killing civilians is not moral by any means. Killing the opposing soldiers is not moral either, but it's necessary.

Mr. Zero: Don't group in what I say with what other ignorant people say, even if it's "more complex" to seperate them. Make an effort to make yourself clearer in those situations, I know you aren't one of those 14-year-old illiterate kids that roam around on these boards. You're fully capable of it. You also misinterpreted what I wrote, I don't think it's a video game. I think I've expressed that a few times actually. Gunning down a civilian is obviously wrong, and should not go unnoticed, but gunning down an opposing soldier is necessary.

I never watched Black Hawk Down to tell you the truth. It didn't interest me. I don't like war, most of it is unnecessary, but if a country is going to go into war, they can't feel remorse or mercy for the enemy, because they won't show it to you.

I would think that for the most part soldiers are extremely disciplined. It's ironic because we watched a special about military colleges in school today and the training they have to go through, the average person does not have the discipline to make it through all that.

Originally posted by Mr Zero
Darth Saurons ass? He apparently has an ass full of them.

Im out of this thread. its giving me a nosebleed.

that sounds more like trying to avoid a sinking ship then a response because you have been proven wrong. 😐

At what point has Mr Zero been proven wrong?

Originally posted by Df02
even with our jamming weapons and pairs of boots to share between a whole regiment, the British army is a far more disciplined and professional - and all in all and more effective fighting force - than the US army

hey, what can we say in defence of ourselves? the country strated with gorilla warfare, the civil war was full of sharpshooters and such. we're just a barbaric country 😬

Originally posted by BackFire
Hmmm...I think his source is a bit more credible then that. For every stat he tells us he will generally give us a source if we want it. This time no one asked though.

It makes perfect sense though. Those terrorists just don't care about life. They do not care if they kill innocent people (as they've shown time and time again), as long as it helps their "cause" they'll gladly wipe out 20 people to get 1 that they want.

I agree 100%

and for this thread. my God a bunch of little pricks sitting at computers telling the infantry what they are suppose to think and do when you have no idea what is like to be shot at and see your buddies being blown away by other little pricks waisting entire crowds so that when the pricks at home in the countries of the soldier get mad enough they'll protest and get the politicians to withdraw them, directly handing the little pricks blowing people up power so they can do whatever they think will make them happy.

I will be an officer in this man's army soon enough (ROTC) and i can say for one thing, we are the best trained and we are as morale as any army going to fight for the freedom of others and to bring our brothers home. We don't give idiots rifles to waist whatever they see in front of them, those people are kicked out at boot camp.

Originally posted by Df02
theyre the worst army with the best equipment...
they have half-arsed training and like you said, are overzealous thugs

even with our jamming weapons and pairs of boots to share between a whole regiment, the British army is a far more disciplined and professional - and all in all and more effective fighting force - than the US army

perfect point, the British controlled areas of Iraq came under relative control ages before the US areas, because of the softly softly approach and generally better attitude the soldiers showed to Iraqi citizens, as opposed to American tactics.

half assed training! hysterical the british national gaurd units have no regulations, they allow thier units to have long hair and develope thier own rally schedules 😂

The British number in 15,000 and are in like 3 cities. We are in Fallujah and bagdad and everywhere else. 😐 you do the math.

Civilian population of Falluja is locked into the city, bombarded, and denied food and water - an event that must surely be recorded as a dreadful war crime in history ....and you seem very proud your troops are there, how appaling.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly

and for this thread. my God a bunch of little pricks sitting at computers telling the infantry what they are suppose to think and do when you have no idea what is like to be shot at and see your buddies being blown away by other little pricks waisting entire crowds so that when the pricks at home in the countries of the soldier get mad enough they'll protest and get the politicians to withdraw them, directly handing the little pricks blowing people up power so they can do whatever they think will make them happy.

And Im sure you know how that feels like right? Because Im sure you are a veteran of war, because if you're not then I would be sat here, at my computer thinking your talking bullshit.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Civilian population of Falluja is locked into the city, bombarded, and denied food and water - an event that must surely be recorded as a dreadful war crime in history ....and you seem very proud your troops are there, how appaling.

do you have any idea what is happening there? Denied food and water? You seem to forget that our forces are searching house to house and the city is officially secure and the population is being supplied by our "monsterous" troops.

And war crime? You have no idea it seems what a war crime is because if you haven't noticed 98% of the forces that are fighting us are commiting war crimes. targeting civilians, executing prisoners, executing and capturing civilians, ransom, dressing as civilians,..... and many more.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
And Im sure you know how that feels like right? Because Im sure you are a veteran of war, because if you're not then I would be sat here, at my computer thinking your talking bullshit.

Please tell me what two wars you experienced. Please, since you have mentioned them before. And where you fighting directly? Did you hold a rifle in your hands?

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
do you have any idea what is happening there? Denied food and water? You seem to forget that our forces are searching house to house and the city is officially secure and the population is being supplied by our "monsterous" troops.

And war crime? You have no idea it seems what a war crime is because if you haven't noticed 98% of the forces that are fighting us are commiting war crimes. targeting civilians, executing prisoners, executing and capturing civilians, ransom, dressing as civilians,..... and many more.

Whos fighting whom? Eh? If I remember correctly America invaded Iraq - holly shit, im sure Iraqi civilans are gratefull to have forgein solders in ther country shooing them for fun (see the first post)

This just shows how much you know. Where exactly did your statistic of 98% come from? Did you make that up right now? Just like the rest of the bullshit you make up and pass on as facts then accuse me and Tex of never providing anything valid?