Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You responded to the quote "God always was and always will be". That was in fact the entire post and none of the stuff you refered to was claimed in there.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Why believe that God always has and always will be when theres no proof? Yet to think that everything came from atoms, protons, neutrons and other things that we know always have existed and always will is crazy? It baffles my mind how people can follow that belief. It's ok to believe that something magical has always existed but not ok to believe that rocks and matter and energy that we actually can see measure and know exist could have always existed. Can someone explain that to me please?
Who made that claim? And if God exists according to the Judeo-Christian interpretation, then he would have existed outside the bounds of time.
His "beginning" cannot be guessed using a linear concept of time.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
you seriously didn't understand what i was saying? I was saying why believe that a magical being was and always will exist instead of just believing in scientific fact and what we actually know?
The two are not inherently opposed. Nor has anyone but you claimed they are at any point in this conversation.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
I'm applying your reasoning but applying it to something we can actually see, touch and know exists.
My reasoning?
I'm not the one who said god is and always was. Jule did. Did you all read the first page at all? It's on the very first page. Second response to the question. My very first response was quoting it. Did any of you actually read anything in the thread or just decide to argue with me for no reason? I was responding to what Julie said. And yes the reasoning thats been shown is that God always has been and that's how creation happened. Why believe that instead of just believing that matter and stuff has always existed and that there is no magical being that created everyone and everything? No one has responded to my question yet just bashed me for asking it....
person who started thread :
if you want the quick, easy answer, judeo-christian [basically, the jewish faith and the christian faith] believe that god has always been there.
like he was just hanging out in the great Nothing, and suddenly decided to build a universe. and then he was like, i wonder what the lengths of idiocy i can go to. and so he created earth with animals like the duck-billed platypus and the kangaroo.
and he liked all of that, so he said, now i need something to trump all of this, and made adam, then took a rib from adam and made eve.
and then he had dominion over all the world and it was wrath wrath fiery punishment.
then of course there was that whole jesus thing, and then god became a hippie that loves you no matter what, and has no fiery wrath. which makes for a less interesting character, but certainly gives us something to think about.
personally, though, i like watching the philosophy debate take place.
it's much more like "we're two wild and crazy guys!!!" than this other version.
ETA : oh, and allah's always been there too. i don't know much about the hindu faith, though.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
I'm not the one who said god is and always was. Jule did. Did you all read the first page at all? It's on the very first page. Second response to the question. My very first response was quoting it. Did any of you actually read anything in the thread or just decide to argue with me for no reason? I was responding to what Julie said. And yes the reasoning thats been shown is that God always has been and that's how creation happened. Why believe that instead of just believing that matter and stuff has always existed and that there is no magical being that created everyone and everything? No one has responded to my question yet just bashed me for asking it....
I answered it. THE TWO ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
The basic premise of your question is fallacious. If someone believes in God it doesn't mean that they also do not believe in matter and energy.
As for why people would simply believe in God, a lot of people want to think there is a purpose or something larger that has to do with them. Some people don't need a God for that but a lot do, it's the same reason that some people find out about quantum physics and go off the deep end about how "anything is possible", it's the same reason people people become philosophers (and conveniently discover that universal truths match up with what they already do), it's the same reason that many people insist on forcing others to validate their beliefs no matter how absurd or poorly thought out they may be.
It's the same thing - what created Universe? What created particles which created Big Bang? What was before Universe?
If something can be created out of nothing, then we deny physics laws. If indeed cannot, than what created the Universe and the Big Bang and if it was God who created him?
Yeah, these qestions we can speculate, but will never ever know. It is impossible for us to know.
Refer to Immanuel Kant for further more complex and German explanations of soul, god and our existance.
He's smart cos he originates from the same place Bardock does.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I answered it. THE TWO ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.The basic premise of your question is fallacious. If someone believes in God it doesn't mean that they also do not believe in matter and energy.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
If you believe in God and you believe god created the universe then the two are mutually exclusive.
Only if you think god created the universe from nothing at all. (which does not feature in many creation stories)
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Unless you are one of the people who believe in your own version of god or one of the people who pick and choose which part of their religion to believe in?
Most people that have a "holy text" (especially Christians of which there are two big groups, called Catholics and Protestants and, thousands of smaller Protestant denominations) pick and choose what parts of it they see as true/literal.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Only if you think god created the universe from nothing at all. (which does not feature in many creation stories)
What creation stories? In Genesis I it says God created the earth before the sun and stars. it says he creates the earth, sun, moon, stars, plant life, animal life, and mankind in a span of six 24-hour days. Not too sure about other religions creation stories I'd have to double check. But they usually state that there was an all powerful being who created the universe. Thats like 99% of them i'd imagine. here's a link that covers a lot of religion evolution and creation stories Beliefs of the World Religions
So it would seem most the world religions do think that an all powerful being made the universe from nothing. My question is why believe that and not believe that there is no magical being that the universe has just always existed without the influence of magical beings?