Originally posted by Symmetric Chaosthe "time started as soon as he did action" can work
It can't be either of those. There was no time for that instant to happen in. If there was no time then there was no time for him to do anything before time began so he couldn't have been the one to do it.
also an "instant" is no time at all 😬
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
the "time started as soon as he did action" can work
But he didn't have time to do anything, by definition.
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
also an instant is no time at all
Since when? I've never heard anyone use "instant" to mean anything other than "an incredibly short period of time".
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaosdoesnt time and action go hand to hand or something?
But he didn't have time to do anything, by definition.Since when? I've never heard anyone use "instant" to mean anything other than "an incredibly short period of time".
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaosbut if something created god the something would have to created that something in a never ending chain
If there is no time then nothing can happen. So if God existed before time began he couldn't do anything, couldn't perform any actions.
some people belive this universe was created by another in a never ending chain which doesnt make sense to me
and how do you know that if theres no time then nothing can happen? it could just be that theres no time untill something happens
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
but if something created god the something would have to created that something in a never ending chainsome people belive this universe was created by another in a never ending chain which doesnt make sense to me
and how do you know that if theres no time then nothing can happen? it could just be that theres no time untill something happens
Space-time.
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
but if something created god the something would have to created that something in a never ending chainsome people belive this universe was created by another in a never ending chain which doesnt make sense to me
and how do you know that if theres no time then nothing can happen? it could just be that theres no time untill something happens
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonHave you never come up with an idea? Do you believe that your parents gave birth to you or is it that time started when you where born? The past is not something that anyone has seen with their own eyes(Excluding video images of course) so doesn't that mean you have to put faith in it's accuracy? Solid evidence is not available to you for anything that happened before you were born, so do you wonder whether or not any of it really happened?
Why believe in a creation?
The reason that we can easily believe in a creation is because we have strong evidence that we were created even though we didn't witness it ourselves. The scientific explanation seems retarded to me because the simple explanation is " The trillions and trillions of somethings that we are aware of have no origin. The big bang was a complex reaction to physical circumstances that have no origin. Time exists now but not before the big bang and it started when it started for no purpose." That's what the science world believes?
Why believe anything if you didn't see it yourself? 😮💨
Originally posted by The MISTER
The scientific explanation seems retarded to me because the simple explanation is " The trillions and trillions of somethings that we are aware of have no origin. The big bang was a complex reaction to physical circumstances that have no origin. Time exists now but not before the big bang and it started when it started for no purpose." That's what the science world believes?
can you show me a scientist who believes this?
Originally posted by The MISTER
That's the simplified version. From what I've read about the big bang THEORY.Can you explain their belief to me so I can know what it is exactly? Where do they say everything originates from?
Most of them don't claim to know. Once you get to the level of equations involved in what caused the big bang you're looking at a few thousand people that really know what's being said anymore.
Originally posted by The MISTER
Have you never come up with an idea? Do you believe that your parents gave birth to you or is it that time started when you where born? The past is not something that anyone has seen with their own eyes(Excluding video images of course) so doesn't that mean you have to put faith in it's accuracy? Solid evidence is not available to you for anything that happened before you were born, so do you wonder whether or not any of it really happened?The reason that we can easily believe in a creation is because we have strong evidence that we were created even though we didn't witness it ourselves. The scientific explanation seems retarded to me because the simple explanation is " The trillions and trillions of somethings that we are aware of have no origin. The big bang was a complex reaction to physical circumstances that have no origin. Time exists now but not before the big bang and it started when it started for no purpose." That's what the science world believes?
Why believe anything if you didn't see it yourself? 😮💨
Entropy is the answer to your question. If you were to walk down the street and come upon a broken egg on the sidewalk, what do you think happened? You know that there must have been an unbroken egg that fell and broke when it hit the sidewalk. You don’t have to see the past to know this is true. Eggs do not appear out of nothing, broken on the sidewalk. The same is true for all things around us. I have seen babies being born, and I know that I was also born. I do not have to remember my own birth. I am not unique, and was born like everyone else.
Your assertion that we cannot know the past is not correct. The fact is, all we see is the past. Light takes time to travel in the universe. Even the person in front of you is not were you see them. The effect up close is very small, but when you look into space, the effect becomes pronounced.
I think the reason you find it easier to believe in a creation is because it seems to be simpler. However, the idea of a creation is really very complicated. In order to maintain the belief in a creation you must have a creator. Then you must answer the question of who created the creator. The answer that has come up for this question is the creator was never created. If you can believe that an omnipotent being was never created, then it is simpler to say the universe, which is far less complex then a god, was never created.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonThis is the problem with the scientific explanations of the past. Seriously the fact that the egg was broken when it was stepped on might be the truth but we all KNOW that it fell. We are all wrong about that then but nobody will care and after it has been documented that it fell then the people who suggest that it was stepped on are obviously lacking in intelligence. The truth about the past is more mysterious than you are suggesting. Not seeing something happen yourself takes away from even this egg example which is a very good one. Why should I believe billion year deductions to be truth when one that does sound simple has reasons that the TRUTH about the past may elude us.
Entropy is the answer to your question. If you were to walk down the street and come upon a broken egg on the sidewalk, what do you think happened? You know that there must have been an unbroken egg that fell and broke when it hit the sidewalk. You don’t have to see the past to know this is true.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonYou've noted that things do not appear out of nothing. That has been sustained by all recorded history. Therefore the power that supports the things we see could not have just appeared either. This creates the same problem that lies in the creation belief. As far as not being unique, the human being is the only known creature in all existence that can tell a story of it's life that is 100% unique from every other animal in it's species. What are the serious odds of that happening for no reason, as all of existence did theoretically?
Eggs do not appear out of nothing, broken on the sidewalk. The same is true for all things around us. I have seen babies being born, and I know that I was also born. I do not have to remember my own birth. I am not unique, and was born like everyone else.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonYou know that you're trying to get deep but cmon! We relate the past to others but what we see is what is happening at this time. The present, or now as people call it. The light from dead stars shines through now. If the person in front of you is punching at you then you should duck now, despite the fact that from space he may appear to be across the street, or merged with you. Telling me that there are effects that make a person in front of me seem to be elsewhere does not increase my trust in individuals' discernments of ten-million years ago.
Your assertion that we cannot know the past is not correct. The fact is, all we see is the past. Light takes time to travel in the universe. Even the person in front of you is not were you see them. The effect up close is very small, but when you look into space, the effect becomes pronounced.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonYou are absolutely right! I believe that truth is something that is simple sometimes. It's also something that eludes being proven sometimes but regardlessly stands eternal. Both of our ideas about the origin of existence are stalled at this point. How can something exist with no beginning? Well here it all is. Why should I believe that our existence has no purpose and is as meaningless as science suggests? I think that we are on purpose and that the one who put us here is the source of what is happening everywhere period. No actions are can be proven to be wrong in the universe except for human hypocrisy. Believing in creation is the beginning of believing that we are on purpose rather than have no purpose. 😮💨
I think the reason you find it easier to believe in a creation is because it seems to be simpler. However, the idea of a creation is really very complicated. In order to maintain the belief in a creation you must have a creator. Then you must answer the question of who created the creator. The answer that has come up for this question is the creator was never created. If you can believe that an omnipotent being was never created, then it is simpler to say the universe, which is far less complex then a god, was never created.
Originally posted by The MISTER
This is the problem with the scientific explanations of the past. Seriously the fact that the egg was broken when it was stepped on might be the truth but we all KNOW that it fell. We are all wrong about that then but nobody will care and after it has been documented that it fell then the people who suggest that it was stepped on are obviously lacking in intelligence. The truth about the past is more mysterious than you are suggesting. Not seeing something happen yourself takes away from even this egg example which is a very good one. Why should I believe billion year deductions to be truth when one that does sound simple has reasons that the TRUTH about the past may elude us.
If someone stepped on the egg, then there will be evidence, like a foot print. However, my point is much simpler. We can look at the now, and deduce the past. This is how we catch murderers.
Originally posted by The MISTER
You've noted that things do not appear out of nothing. That has been sustained by all recorded history. Therefore the power that supports the things we see could not have just appeared either. This creates the same problem that lies in the creation belief. As far as not being unique, the human being is the only known creature in all existence that can tell a story of it's life that is 100% unique from every other animal in it's species. What are the serious odds of that happening for no reason, as all of existence did theoretically?
I do not believe in any kind of creation; be it religious or scientific. I believe the big bang was just a change to something that already existed. Sense space time that we understand came into existence at the big bang, then the moment before the big bang was eternal.
I also believe that life is common within the universe. I believe that we will find other life that can do exactly what we can do. Therefore, we are not unique in the universe.
Originally posted by The MISTER
You know that you're trying to get deep but cmon! We relate the past to others but what we see is what is happening at this time. The present, or now as people call it. The light from dead stars shines through now. If the person in front of you is punching at you then you should duck now, despite the fact that from space he may appear to be across the street, or merged with you. Telling me that there are effects that make a person in front of me seem to be elsewhere does not increase my trust in individuals' discernments of ten-million years ago.
I think you misunderstood what I said.
The light from a person in front of you travels at 186,000 miles per second, and takes a fraction of a second to get to you. That means the image of the person in front of you, when it hits your eyes, is the image of the person a fraction of a second ago. When you look at a star that is 10 light years away, that star is seen by your eyes as it was 10 years ago. The star could have exploded 5 years ago, but you continue to see the star for the next 5 years.
Originally posted by The MISTER
You are absolutely right! I believe that truth is something that is simple sometimes. It's also something that eludes being proven sometimes but regardlessly stands eternal. Both of our ideas about the origin of existence are stalled at this point. How can something exist with no beginning? Well here it all is. Why should I believe that our existence has no purpose and is as meaningless as science suggests? I think that we are on purpose and that the one who put us here is the source of what is happening everywhere period. No actions are can be proven to be wrong in the universe except for human hypocrisy. Believing in creation is the beginning of believing that we are on purpose rather than have no purpose. 😮💨
If you believe in a creation, then you have to show how that happened. That is true for religion and science alike. But if you eliminate creation, then there is nothing to prove. I believe that no creation is the simplest answer.
Purpose comes from within. If you look outside of yourself for meaning in life, you will always fail. The universe does not suggest purpose or non-purpose. The universe just is.
The universe just is, is equal to God just is. We are not unique because you believe we are not is comparable to we are unique because I believe we are. So far there is more scientific evidence to support our being the most unique animal in the known universe. There is also proof that extremely unique actions are done on purpose like an animal that repeatedly starts fires. That supports the idea though it does not prove that the extremely unique existence that we experience was put in order on purpose rather than appeared for no purpose. I will say though that you have been very open minded to even engage in discussion with someone with views that are so different than yours. I commend you and hope that the future holds more people with the ability to entertain the ideas of others. You have made some very good points about the arrogance of Christians that present their beliefs as though you are just supposed to accept them as fact with no arguments.