who created god

Originally posted by clickclick
In fact I find it down right comical that you insist that the onus of proof is on me. Why? Am I trying to covert you? You think I honestly care which way you swing ?

I just came to this section to discuss my views, not to change your mind.

With true nothingness, the big bang could never have occured. You are clearly bordering on delusional if you believe the big bang theory is a fact.

Afro_Cheese>
” big bang theory is a scientific theory that will most likely never be proven true”
It will eventually be proven wrong or right.
Remember what I said about quantum-gravity?
When we get this theory, we will be able to ”rewind” all our current cosmological theories to time 00:00 Big Bang time.

The reason I can say this with certainty?
At BB-time 00:00 all four forces of nature were combined in one single unified force (they were so to speak equally strong). A fraction of a fraction of a millisecond after the BB gravity was de-coupled and then the other three forces did the same.
Since the Universe was atomically small when gravity was de-coupled we need quantum-gravity to understand what went on before this happened. And this theory we still do not have in a useful way.

You can read more here http://www.pparc.ac.uk/Ps/bbs/bbs_formation.asp. If you want anything explained feel free to ask me 🙂
The BB scientific theory is more than just an idea or a hypothesis. It fits with many other branches of physics and science and theories.
One of the most important proofs of the Big Bang scientific theory is the cosmic microwave background radiation. http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest3.html
And it has been found!

I have one question why do you know that much about it?

Bardock> I'm a high-energy physicist.

Wow.. well I read on another site that they doubt there is a way to prove it right or wrong so that's why I said that.. but since you're an expert in the field I'll take your word on it. I really have trouble completely understanding all that stuff because I've never taken physics.. so a lot of it is lost on me.

Oh well that explains that, so go on show tbhose christians

Surely you cannot prove God does or does not exist. And wouldn't it have huge negative consequences for the world if He was proved real or proved untrue?

Afro_Cheese>
You definitely do NOT have to take my word for it. 🙂
Read the links I posted, and then if you have any more questions on the subject feel free to ask me. I’m home with the flu, so I have aeons of time on my hands right now!
Maybe – just maybe when we get quantum-gravity we realise that we need to go a step further. Who knows.
But the way things look today, with the proven theories of physics, what we learn from the giant particle-colliders, Hubble, etc. it all points to BB.
We may not be able to say, okay we’re 110% sure this is how it happens. But 99,9 % is okay with me…

Frodo34x> “Surely you cannot prove God does or does not exist. And wouldn't it have huge negative consequences for the world if He was proved real or proved untrue?”
You cannot prove a negative, that is the non-existence of a thing.
It rests on those making a positive assertion (such as ”God exists”) to prove their claim.

Originally posted by The Omega

It rests on those making a positive assertion (such as ”God exists”) to prove their claim.

Who else agrees with me on the point that proof of existence or nonexistence of God would be the worst thing that could happen to the world?

Yeah I could see it causing a shitload of trouble. But then again many people would just deny it's existence/nonexistence. People are stubborn like that.

You can't prove a negative.. there is no way to prove that something doesn't exist. You don't have to prove that God does exist, but until God is proven to exist believing in god is just basically going on your faith and what you feel, not going on evidence and facts. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, if you're fine with that then ok. But many of us aren't ok with believing something that big just out of faith, and require some sort of facts or evidence to back that belief up. The big bang theory is a scientific theory that will most likely never be proven true, but makes more sense scientifically than a supernatural creator. It's not a fact, but it's a hell of a lot closer to being a fact than Genesis ever will be.

Ive already stated that its obvious that believing in God is a matter of faith.

Exactly it wont be proven true, so in order to believe it you must have faith that it was the way it was.

Quantum-physics is a branch of science, that has NOTHING to do with belief. And the Big Bang is a lot more than faith.
Did you actually STUDY the subject? What are your degrees in cosmology, quantum-physics and the general theory of relativity?
You have none I assume, since if you had you wouldn’t make such a blatantly stupid remark as “is an obvious matter of faith as it lacks proof.”

I know what Quantum-physics is, it was never in question. In fact ive already stated what it was, so why you decided to tell me the same thing is quite a mystery. Im supposing to make yourself feel smarter, you seem to have an inferiority complex. No matter, such is not my problem. Yes im well aware of what the theory is, im also well aware that it hasnt been proven. If it hasnt been proven, you have to have faith that such a thing happend. That is a simple fact, it is a theory lacking actual proof.

There is absolutely nothing faulty in requiring someone to offer proof of their claim. On the contrary. Logic fails entirely, if someone can claim the existence of something solely on the basis of a personally (or culturally) accepted delusion.

Actually, like ive already mentione to you religion is a faith. So to ask somebody to prove it, its stupidity. It already goes without saying that one will neither prove the existing of God at this point.

laughing
So that would be you, eh? The adult? Who knows zip about science, yet claims the scientif theory of the Big Bang requires faith.Then go study some science. Or sufficiently explain what exactly it is that you do not understand.

Lacking proof = Requiring faith. While you may know some things about physics (perhaps) you certainly seem like you are struggling mightly with the english language.

Such as? ”Always” is a temporal concept. Time itself (along with space) was created at the moment of Big Bang. When you understand THIS, or is capable of accepting what this entails, lemme know.

The Big Bang theory suggests that there was a "singularity" before time and space existed. Such is not true nothingness.

Ehrm, sorry, you don’t really understand what professor Stephen Hawking is discussing. Hawking is discussing an ”if”-situation. He is in no way CLAIMING that this is the case. Notice the ”the idea that…” And Hawking is in no way supportive of a notion of an ever-existing Universe. He speaks of the mathematics of space-time, and what would happen if we were to model the Universe as a CLOSED surface WITHOUT boundary.

How tired. Yes, I really understand what Hawkins is talking about.

Not faith really... when you decide to believe that the big bang occurred you use reason and logic, and the scientific research that has been conducted on the subject. You can't do the same when deciding to believe in a supernatural God, because logic would tell you that it doesn't exist, and it is impossible to study god scientifically. So by believing in God, you have to do so by abandoning science and going with your faith. On the other hand, the big bang does make sense scientifically, so it doesn't rely on faith.

The difference is that big bang is a scientific theory. It has been researched and questioned by scientists who believe it to be scientifically possible. Creation is not a scientific theory, in order to be a scientific theory something has to be repeatedly tested and researched. Creation is nothing more a story in a book that somehow became widely accepted as Christianity grew.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think Bad Choice is the exact Term to describe it. Everything is a decision and there are good bad and neutral choices. ´There are just different amounts of badness and goodness in the choice but whatever.

Try that "bad choice" defense in a court of law before a jury and let me know what happens. It's very poor terminology in describing what happened to those molested kids (some as young as three) at the hands of pedophile priests.

Try that "bad choice" defense in a court of law before a jury and let me know what happens. It's very poor terminology in describing what happened to those molested kids (some as young as three) at the hands of pedophile priests.

You still didnt answer my question. It obviously wasnt incorrect, I really couldnt care less which kind of terminology you want to use to describe it. You were quite clearly wrong in saying mine was incorrect. So, I suggest you use some new terminology "beyond a bad choice". Funny.

Between good and bad choices, it most certainly falls under the latter.

Please remind me when this message board became the court of law.

Not faith really... when you decide to believe that the big bang occurred you use reason and logic, and the scientific research that has been conducted on the subject.

Not really and ill explain why. The big bang theory is based on reason and logic only up until a certain point, that point being where the laws of nature no longer exist. That point being the existence of the singularity. The origin of singularity can not be explained in natural terms.

The atheistic belief that the universe was created is congruent the theistic belief that the universe was created. I dont take objection to the notion that the universe was created. However, what I have been getting at all this time is this.

It would take more faith to believe that the universe sprung without cause from literal nothingness than it would take to believe the existence of God.

Originally posted by clickclick
It would take more faith to believe that the universe sprung without cause from literal nothingness than it would take to believe the existence of God.

It would take more faith to believe that the universe sprung without cause from literal nothingness than it would take to believe the existence of God.

Originally posted by Ajax66
Try that "bad choice" defense in a court of law before a jury and let me know what happens. It's very poor terminology in describing what happened to those molested kids (some as young as three) at the hands of pedophile priests.

I don't want to defend anyone at court I just said it was a bad choice there is n othing else then decisions so what do you want us to call it. "the worst thing ever done by a human being"? Whatever it just was a bad choice people should take respon sibility for their decisions but, bad choice is just what you have to call a decision that is bad for you as well as for someone else.

And we were not describing what happened to those kids but what the molester has done.

in reply to "The Omega"'s post from 18.12.04 4:25pm 😉

3) You’re entitled tro not ”believe” in up-/down quarks.

sssshhhh, shall i tell you something??? i am 😛 😆

And to not ”believe” then, in turn, in protons and neutrons (which consists of up/down quarks), then to NOT believe in atoms, which consists of protons and neutrons in the center, and then in turn to NOT believe in matter. I don’t give a damn.

fine... there are theories which say protons and neutrons consist of up/down quarks.... but they simply are theories... nothin more than theories... you may believe in them but you mustnt...
fe. you cant proove whats inside a tin, as long as you are not able to open it. our scientists are not able to look inside protons and neutrons, so who has got the right to force me to believe in it...? 😄 😆

4) Explain to me why you’re so much wiser than nuclear scientists since the early 1970’s

explain me how scientists could know whats inside a tin without opening it 😛 😆

So not only are YOU stupid. So is your teacher for accepting your ignorance!

well... that teacher has been distinguished as beeing the best teacher of our country several times..... go and tell our federal president that he distinguished the wrong one.. and that several times... omg this is a shame for our country 😕 😆