Point being that you cannot give a figure, or even percentage as to how much weight she was lifting. Any figure you throw out there is your opinion/ guesstimate and nothing more.
So all those figures of "sextillions of tons" are moot, and have no place in a discussion that is comparing an on panel, stated figure, to anotehr that is pure speculation.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
A good portion of the moon or the Earth is safely above the trillion ton range.Hell there are individual mountains on Earth in the trillion ton range.
Originally posted by ctnn1
Point being that you cannot give a figure, or even percentage as to how much weight she was lifting. Any figure you throw out there is your opinion/ guesstimate and nothing more.So all those figures of "sextillions of tons" are moot, and have no place in a discussion that is comparing an on panel, stated figure, to anotehr that is pure speculation.
We know that Diana is at least comparable in strength to Superman and likely comparable or superior in strength to J'onn.
Even assuming she's only doing 10% of the work (and that's a low estimate) she's still moving several hundred quintillion tons.
As I stated, more speculation. You cannot provide any definitive figures below. You just proved my point for me that this is speculation. Should move on now.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
We know that the Earth was moved, and that the burden was split three ways.We know that Diana is at least comparable in strength to Superman and likely comparable or superior in strength to J'onn.
Even assuming she's only doing 10% of the work (and that's a low estimate) she's still moving several hundred quintillion tons.
Originally posted by ctnn1
Point being that you cannot give a figure, or even percentage as to how much weight she was lifting. Any figure you throw out there is your opinion/ guesstimate and nothing more.So all those figures of "sextillions of tons" are moot, and have no place in a discussion that is comparing an on panel, stated figure, to anotehr that is pure speculation.
But, problem, any of the mass of the moon/Earth she isn't lifting, meaning it's in the hands of one of two other people who's full-strength hits she can take and keep coming.
So if you make an assumption to give her low strength, it means she *must* have higher durability to compensate, or vice-versa, quintillions and quintillions of tons minimum, as the total remains the same, it's just in one of three hands who are either hers or she's fought.
There's no way to move the numbers around without giving her massive stats, period.
StoicDiana also had help with the planet which still failed, which also can not be compared with the Hulk single-handedly stopping a world from exploding. She is not on his, level he does not need minutes to reach these levels, seconds is all he required and he exceeded Diana's best by a long shot. When was the last time that you've ever seen Diana step on the ground, and nearly sink the eastern seaboard? In a battle with the Hulk Diana would get pulverized, people keep thinking of the Hulk as a static level character, but always seem to forget that he can keep bringing the heat.
And Hulk's best has far surpassed Superman's since when? Because she can take his no-holding-back-power best, no question.
Diana doesn't go and do a lot of high end strength feats herself... though the "move the Moon" one does give her the strength, toughness, or both, to take 'sink the eastern seaboard' level stuff with ease... but she does regularly compare and match up against people who do have feats in excess of Hulk's.
Sorry, I'm just not finding these "Hulk can overwhelm all of DC's high heralds with ease," arguments very convincing.
Originally posted by ctnn1
As I stated, more speculation. You cannot provide any definitive figures below. You just proved my point for me that this is speculation. Should move on now.
This seems to be what you're getting at. If that is what you're aiming for then its downright trollish.
Originally posted by Q99
But, problem, any of the mass of the moon/Earth she isn't lifting, meaning it's in the hands of one of two other people who's full-strength hits she can take and keep coming.So if you make an assumption to give her low strength, it means she *must* have higher durability to compensate, or vice-versa, quintillions and quintillions of tons minimum, as the total remains the same, it's just in one of three hands who are either hers or she's fought.
There's no way to move the numbers around without giving her massive stats, period.
And Hulk's best has far surpassed Superman's since when? Because she can take his no-holding-back-power best, no question.
Diana doesn't go and do a lot of high end strength feats herself... though the "move the Moon" one does give her the strength, toughness, or both, to take 'sink the eastern seaboard' level stuff with ease... but she does regularly compare and match up against people who do have feats in excess of Hulk's.
Sorry, I'm just not finding these "Hulk can overwhelm all of DC's high heralds with ease," arguments very convincing.
hulk does have the best strengh feats in the herald class in general terms, classic WW would defeat classic savage hulk because of her versaility, speed and lasso. I'd side with current hulk against her though as he is smarter(bannertech for the cheap win), stronger and more pissed off than ever.
It's a simple three variable puzzle based around a single huge constant where we already know she can hang with the strongest of the three variables.
Math doesn't leave all that much room for question here.
Originally posted by 753
?hulk does have the best strengh feats in the herald class in general terms, classic WW would defeat classic savage hulk because of her versaility, speed and lasso. I'd side with current hulk against her though as he is smarter(bannertech for the cheap win), stronger and more pissed off than ever.
Regardless of who you think wins though, she's obviously not going to be totally overwhelmed, she's got massive strength and toughness feats and can both take hits from him and give 'em back.
The idea that she's going to be totally overwhelmed because of '100 trillion ton feats,' is silly. She can hang in this class and it's going to be a real fight.
The downplaying a few of the poster here try... well, I'm not ever sure why they try it.
I don't have a problem with people who think Current Hulk would win. I do have something of a problem with people who try and do so via poor arguing and blatant undercutting, in other words. It's really not a convincing argument.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
We know that the Earth was moved, and that the burden was split three ways.We know that Diana is at least comparable in strength to Superman and likely comparable or superior in strength to J'onn.
Even assuming she's only doing 10% of the work (and that's a low estimate) she's still moving several hundred quintillion tons.
Come on... its a pulling feat. I have seen humans pull tons of weight but they sure as hell isn't lifting it. I could see wonder woman pulling the moon solo if it came down to it because its a pulling feat. I could see wonderman doing the same since he used the aid of flight to easily pull an island. Lifting and pulling are two different things. If wonder woman was standing on something and someone gently laid the moon on her, shes not lifting it because she does not have the feats.
The weakest incarnation of the hulk trumps that feat anyway since he destroyed something twice the size of earth with one hit... so how many tons would that require since we want to use those type of feats as evidence of who is stronger. Once you caculate that, multiply it by a magnetude since this version of hulk is far more powerful than the hulk that destroyed that asteroid.
Originally posted by Q99
It's a simple three variable puzzle based around a single huge constant where we already know she can hang with the strongest of the three variables.Math doesn't leave all that much room for question here.
Regardless of who you think wins though, she's obviously not going to be totally overwhelmed, she's got massive strength and toughness feats and can both take hits from him and give 'em back.
The idea that she's going to be totally overwhelmed because of '100 trillion ton feats,' is silly. She can hang in this class and it's going to be a real fight.
The downplaying a few of the poster here try... well, I'm not ever sure why they try it.
I don't have a problem with people who think Current Hulk would win. I do have something of a problem with people who try and do so via poor arguing and blatant undercutting, in other words. It's really not a convincing argument.
Wonder woman isnt as strong as what yoy are trying to claim tha she is. Sure, she could hang with some of dc finest but trillions of tons, naah, I can't see it happening. Again, pulling it in space, yes, I wouldn't argue against that but lifting a trillion tons... I have never seen it happened.
Originally posted by carver9
Wonder woman isnt as strong as what yoy are trying to claim tha she is. Sure, she could hang with some of dc finest but trillions of tons, naah, I can't see it happening. Again, pulling it in space, yes, I wouldn't argue against that but lifting a trillion tons... I have never seen it happened.
You must have a high opinion then of Superman and/or MM's strength relative to hers.
Originally posted by carver9
Wonder woman isnt as strong as what yoy are trying to claim tha she is. Sure, she could hang with some of dc finest but trillions of tons, naah, I can't see it happening. Again, pulling it in space, yes, I wouldn't argue against that but lifting a trillion tons... I have never seen it happened.
Let me tell you something about 'inertia'. Namely, it doesn't rely on gravity, and if whatever is being pulled is done at a rate of more than one gravity's acceleration (which adjusting the Moon's orbit requires) then it actually requires more strength than lifting.
So yes, you have seen her do far more.
You pretty consistently underrate her carver, and personally I find it pretty silly. It's like you see her do the same scale of stuff male heralds do, but just count it less for some reason.
Originally posted by Q99
Let me tell you something about 'inertia'. Namely, it doesn't rely on gravity, and if whatever is being pulled is done at a rate of more than one gravity's acceleration (which adjusting the Moon's orbit requires) then it actually requires more strength than lifting.So yes, you have seen her do far more.
You pretty consistently underrate her carver, and personally I find it pretty silly. It's like you see her do the same scale of stuff male heralds do, but just count it less for some reason.
Hell he'll lowball Gladiator too if its a Glads vs Goku thread.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
With Carver if it isn't DBZ or Gladiator he'll lowball the shit out of it.Hell he'll lowball Gladiator too if its a Glads vs Goku thread.
I don't think goku could lift a moon either if it was placed on him and stop bringing him up and yes, as much as I like glads, he would get stomped by goku.
Originally posted by Q99
Let me tell you something about 'inertia'. Namely, it doesn't rely on gravity, and if whatever is being pulled is done at a rate of more than one gravity's acceleration (which adjusting the Moon's orbit requires) then it actually requires more strength than lifting.So yes, you have seen her do far more.
You pretty consistently underrate her carver, and personally I find it pretty silly. It's like you see her do the same scale of stuff male heralds do, but just count it less for some reason.
That's not what I am trying to say, I would give wondy a majority physically against any herald if they didn't rely on their versatility. Go to the wonder woman vs thor or supes thread. I think she is just as strong as them but I think wondy is weaker than current hulk by a large gap (along with the others). This has nothing to do with the hate of the character because I don't hate her, I just don't sit her as high as others. Even though I love glads, a trillion tons... naah, he doesn't have the feats.
Originally posted by carver9
That's not what I am trying to say, I would give wondy a majority physically against any herald if they didn't rely on their versatility. Go to the wonder woman vs thor or supes thread. I think she is just as strong as them but I think wondy is weaker than current hulk by a large gap (along with the others). This has nothing to do with the hate of the character because I don't hate her, I just don't sit her as high as others. Even though I love glads, a trillion tons... naah, he doesn't have the feats.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
You seem not to understand how small a trillion tons is to guys in the Herald class.
LOL... not underestimate, I just think of certain instances with each of them that makes me believe that they are incapable of lifting such weights. I''m not asking you to agree with me omega but what I usually go by is quotes in comics and I cant remember an instance on where it has been stated that a herald can lift a trillion tons; that is a lot of weight.
Pulling the moon, I think Hulk could do that as well if he had flight; hell, I think he can hurl it into the sun with one toss.
Originally posted by carver9
LOL... not underestimate, I just think of certain instances with each of them that makes me believe that they are incapable of lifting such weights. I''m not asking you to agree with me omega but what I usually go by is quotes in comics and I cant remember an instance on where it has been stated that a herald can lift a trillion tons; that is a lot of weight.Pulling the moon, I think Hulk could do that as well if he had flight; hell, I think he can hurl it into the sun with one toss.
That's a new low for you.