Apocalypse vs Thor

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yeah, he took a beating too, and Gorr was easily Skyfather level then.

I don't either. But I find the notion that Thor's physical ability changed so drastically since then pretty silly.

Yeah, that's weird. That's like in the same week too. I guess you can chalk that one up to him learning how to fight it.

Both versions took on modern Gorr. Gorr cheapshotted Young Thor after he took out like 3 Beserkers easily, and as soon as he started fighting Current Thor, he beat him just as easily. So that doesn't really prove much. Though Current Thor doesn't have the implications that he was just raped like Young Thor did...

As an aside, isn't the best Thor has ever done against Odin as a "Young" Thor, while Odin had the Odin Sword and the Destroyer armor?

I'm not jumping to any conclusion. Current Thor could be much stronger or not, neither revelation is illogical or that controversial. Not like Gods have to mature according to mortal standards. Heck, Apocalypse's axe throw should have killed Thor based on the message sent previously but that same issue.

Nah bro, mental blocks.

True, but that axe yo. He got beat up but the implication was that Thor was an entirely different beast as well.

Not the best, but one of his greatest showings. Fraction's mini. But he had Mjolnir and was pretty much a grown man. It's like when he gets Mjolnir, he levels up.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I agree.

He should. Seeing as the ship should be able to replicate any armor relatively easily.

If he doesn't however, he would have lost it due to his destruction at the Moon due to heart force.

Apoc armor seems to fluctuate however based on his strength at the time though. And he can manipulate it. So it's possible he can regen it like the Celestials.
It also accounts for like 100% of the showings where it's been damaged outside this Thor example.

Wait, what? I thought Apocalype's armor was a special, one-time blessing granted to him by the Death Seed. It was treated like some big shit in the ritual with Arishem that's granted to the Celestial Evolutionary care-taker:
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/e75ec7cb61e3ab82b537a8b1505d9189.jpg?h=8bf4cfe6ab31b20f157afce4ab39f0a0
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/649b3245f3c8123ccde18543618211d3.jpg?h=3914b6f2986308cb01e32a6bfcf6cb3d
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/9972415faac4b81da706941ce85ebe65.jpg?h=2105ef9918994a3be990813e62242a9b

Doesn't seem like the intent is that it's something that can be casually mass-produced.

Heart Force?

I don't know, too much speculation overall here for me.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

I'm looking for the scans/issue numbers, but I strongly recall an instance where Thor or the narrator is telling a story about a younger Thor, pre-banishment and they specifically mention how his strength had not peaked in comparison to (then) today.

I never said thor did not grow stronger as he matured...Im sure he did. My point was his durability did not change with age once he reached young adulthood

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The Apocalypse thing isn't the same as Bor, though. With Bor, and during that series, we saw that OF Thor was significantly superior to Classic Thor. And OF Thor, while hurt, endured an attack that once killed him outright. The fact that a stray axe blow broke his ribs and Bor taking everything he had up to Mjolnir breaking certainly lends more evidence to the idea that Bor could have one shot killed him. Given some of classic Thor's crazy feats, it's certainly possible he could have survived Bor's attack, but really, given the intent of JMS and the other comparisons and feats during that run, I'm more inclined to believe that at the least, Thor would have been severely FUBUR'd without the OF.

It just seems stupid to me personally to think that the same attacked that wrecked a young Thor would have the same effectiveness as a Thor who's faced guys like Hulk, Kurse, Juggernaut, etc.

I'm looking for the scans/issue numbers, but I strongly recall an instance where Thor or the narrator is telling a story about a younger Thor, pre-banishment and they specifically mention how his strength had not peaked in comparison to (then) today.

And I highly doubt it would have killed him, just really doubt that. It's one shotting a Thor level being to death when he's resisted way superior forces. I just suspected the Apoc hype would be waved off while still backing Bor's. Even though Bor was hitting lesser beings in the same comic...
And the wirter's intent was for Apoc to be nigh unbeatable without a cosmic level killing axe...

Didn't Apoc like two panel double universe Hulk?

ok

Originally posted by Starscream M
I like that subtle strawman jake

I never said thor did not grow stronger as he matured...Im sure he did. My point was his durability did not change with age once he reached young adulthood

Why would he grow stronger, but not tougher? Keeping in mind this is a being that's even less restricted by logic than other non-magical or non-deity characters in comics.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I like that subtle strawman jake

I never said thor did not grow stronger as he matured...Im sure he did. My point was his durability did not change with age once he reached young adulthood

Then you'll have no trouble posting durability feats for "young Thor" that match those of classic/current Thor.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then you'll have no trouble posting durability feats for "young Thor" that match those of classic/current Thor.

by your logic, does that mean thor got a lot weaker over the years then?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Apocalypse should also be mature enough to use a damn forcefield or just block a melee attack instead of arrogantly standing there and taking it to the chest. That was almost as bad as that "Die a thousand deaths Thunder God" line. Bad characterization. 👇

Anyway, I say split, or 6/10 either way. Apocalypse is in Thor's weight class at the very least.

Nah, Apocalypse beats up even modern Thor 7/10 in that Celestial Armor.

On average, nothing short of Trans will be even able to tickle him if he's rocking the same durability as a Celestial.

Originally posted by Starscream M
um I can post feats of thor's from the 70s/80s that current thor hasn't come close to matching

by your logic, does that mean thor got a lot weaker over the years then?

facepalm

I'm not saying I agree with Silent Master's line of reasoning but damn, that's some dumb shit.

Originally posted by Starscream M
um I can post feats of thor's from the 70s/80s that current thor hasn't come close to matching

by your logic, does that mean thor got a lot weaker over the years then?

That's still "modern" Thor as far as Marvel's in-universe time scale goes.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm not jumping to any conclusion. Current Thor could be much stronger or not, neither revelation is illogical or that controversial. Not like Gods have to mature according to mortal standards. Heck, Apocalypse's axe throw should have killed Thor based on the message sent previously but that same issue.

Nah bro, mental blocks.

True, but that axe yo. He got beat up but the implication was that Thor was an entirely different beast as well.

Not the best, but one of his greatest showings. Fraction's mini. But he had Mjolnir and was pretty much a grown man. It's like when he gets Mjolnir, he levels up.

The implication just seemed that Gorr was a different beast to me.

Do you know the timeline of that one?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wait, what? I thought Apocalype's armor was a special, one-time blessing granted to him by the Death Seed. It was treated like some big shit in the ritual with Arishem that's granted to the Celestial Evolutionary care-taker:
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/e75ec7cb61e3ab82b537a8b1505d9189.jpg?h=8bf4cfe6ab31b20f157afce4ab39f0a0
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/649b3245f3c8123ccde18543618211d3.jpg?h=3914b6f2986308cb01e32a6bfcf6cb3d
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/9972415faac4b81da706941ce85ebe65.jpg?h=2105ef9918994a3be990813e62242a9b

Doesn't seem like the intent is that it's something that can be casually mass-produced.

Heart Force?

I don't know, too much speculation overall here for me.

Yeah, Cyke tapped into love and destroyed Apoc.

My biggest problem was that apparently Apoc ever or currently does have actual Celestial armor. Seems odd to give to a herald level being.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Why would he grow stronger, but not tougher?

but one can't get more durable through experience

not a hard concept to grasp

thor's not a blank canvass that you thorbags can throw any attribute you like onto with proof

Originally posted by Starscream M
through training and experience, he grows stronger

but one can't get more durable through experience

not a hard concept to grasp

thor's not a blank canvass that you thorbags can throw any attribute you like onto with proof

....

Do you not know how muscles work? Or comics, for that matter?

Originally posted by Starscream M
um I can post feats of thor's from the 70s/80s that current thor hasn't come close to matching

by your logic, does that mean thor got a lot weaker over the years then?

Those feats would count for current Thor, so basically you're saying that you have zero proof that young Thor is just as durable as Classic Thor.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yeah, him resisting that axe was pretty crazy considering Wolverine kills Thor on these forums.

The implication just seemed that Gorr was a different beast to me.

Do you know the timeline of that one?

Wolverine fans make no sense.

IIRC he also commented that Thor grew up nicely, that's why I said what I did.

What do you mean? When? Can't remember the exact date but it was the typical early A.D era. Thor actually had a crazy showing where he created that Blood Golem.

It should be noted that was a previous Ragnarok Cycle I believe.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
See, Holo would have only received the seed and the armor.
Apoc received an actual Celestial ship that literally built itself. I'd imagine a Celestial ship that can build itself can replicate armor.

Yeah, Cyke tapped into love and destroyed Apoc.

My biggest problem was that apparently Apoc ever or currently does have actual Celestial armor. Seems odd to give to a herald level being.

Celestial Ships can just spit out Celestial Armor? I'm not saying it's not possible but when I read that scene, the Death Seed and Armor seemed to be like really important shit that a Celestial directly hands out to a single trusted servant. Again, not saying you're wrong, but it just feels, wrong you know. That it can be mass produced.

Oh okay.

Well, I don't consider him a Herald level being tbh. Not if he's walking around as durable as a Celestial. Even someone like Thanos would be hard pressed to scratch him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wait, what? I thought Apocalype's armor was a special, one-time blessing granted to him by the Death Seed. It was treated like some big shit in the ritual with Arishem that's granted to the Celestial Evolutionary care-taker:
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/e75ec7cb61e3ab82b537a8b1505d9189.jpg?h=8bf4cfe6ab31b20f157afce4ab39f0a0
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/649b3245f3c8123ccde18543618211d3.jpg?h=3914b6f2986308cb01e32a6bfcf6cb3d
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/9972415faac4b81da706941ce85ebe65.jpg?h=2105ef9918994a3be990813e62242a9b

Doesn't seem like the intent is that it's something that can be casually mass-produced.

Heart Force?

I don't know, too much speculation overall here for me.

The Death Seed amps are new additions. Originally Apocalypse crafted the Celestial Armor after interfacing with Ship and being infected with the Transmode virus. That was later retconned into the Celestials giving Ship to Apocalypse as their agent, and further altered in recent times to include the Death and Life Seeds given to Celestial Agents in various timelines/universes. The armor in of itself isn't the source of all of Apocalyse's powers. He was worshipped as a god all over Earth prior to finding Ship and upgrading himself with Celestial tech.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Those feats would count for current Thor, so basically you're saying that you have zero proof that young Thor is just as durable as Classic Thor.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
The Death Seed amps are new additions. Originally Apocalypse crafted the Celestial Armor after interfacing with Ship and being infected with the Transmode virus. That was later retconned into the Celestials giving Ship to Apocalypse as their agent, and further altered in recent times to include the Death and Life Seeds given to Celestial Agents in various timelines/universes. The armor in of itself isn't the source of all of Apocalyse's powers. He was worshipped as a god all over Earth prior to finding Ship and upgrading himself with Celestial tech.

Fair enough but without that Armor he stops being an above Top Tier Celestial Herald and a tough mutant with Celestial technology. Thor's odds change significantly depending if it's present or not to me.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the Celestial amps were the source of the majority of his power in the current interpretation but that's just my personal opinion from the vibe I got.

Originally posted by Starscream M
do you have any proof young thor is less durable than classic thor?

You made the claim, which means the burden is on you.

But if it'll make you feel better, I'm willing to do a feat comparison.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Fair enough but without that Armor he stops being an above Top Tier Celestial Herald and a tough mutant with Celestial technology. Thor's odds change significantly depending if it's present or not to me.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the Celestial amps were the source of the majority of his power in the current interpretation but that's just my personal opinion from the vibe I got.

Modern Apocalypse always has the armor. The only time he wouldn't have the armor would be prior to finding Ship or fresh out of his Rejuvenation Chamber (in some depictions). It was shown in Messiah War that all he needs to do is interface with his Celestial Tech and he can power up and form the armor (which is why Stryfe and Bishop had to to get the drop on him during one of his hibernation cycles to try and take him out). The Transmode in him is able to create it once he interfaces. It's literally part of him once he gained it. It's not typically depicted as a special suit of armor he sometimes wears like a special Ironman suit. He's always in his Celestial Armor.