Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
B) Mind powers of any kind are inaffective against Sue's/Johnny's shields. They could still configure the shields to allow air in.-AC
Human Torch has a shield to protect him from telepathy? Was this through the reported taking of the mantle "herald" for Galactus? I remember back in the day during an X-Men's battle with Juggernaut, that Professor Xavier brainwashed Human Torch to aid them then mindcleaned him of the events.
Firstly, if you combined the F4 into one person, I seriously doubt The Phoenix as Jean would be more powerful. Chill out by the way, it's just a debate.
"B. If she created an airtight bubble AROUND their shield, they couldn't let air in, because her shield would be preventing that. You have really screwy science."
So now Jean has Sue's ability I see.
"C. Yes they are, it's ridiculus to claim that the FF are more powerful than the X-men..."
I think you will find that you are wrong.
"Don't criticize people for not reading the FF comics and trying to say something is canon if you don't read the X-men comics."
Who said I don't read the X-Men comics? You are basing that on the fact that I don't agree with you. The phoenix FORCE is NOT Jean. It is independant. It might have BONDED with Jean but they are not one and the same. When she was born, was she born a telepath or was she born as phoenix?
To Radioboy: It's reversed now. Or vice versa'd should I say.
-AC
Johny has switched powers with Sue in the current issues, so he currently has her powers. He's saying that Sue's shields are impervious to mental energy. Though that would be mental energy acting directly on them, whereas what I said was not direct therefore the shield could not block it...
...and yes, Jean can create bubble shields too, with her TELEKINESIS. As for you "opinion" of the phoenix force not being Jean, read the end of the New X-men run, then get back to me and tell me that she isn't...
..and yes, the X-men are much more powerful than the FF.
Well, I remember the former Jean was incapable of going through the field Invisible Woman enveloped, which I gave the source earlier. However, if saying with Phoenix force, then it can go through it (i.e. when Doom stole a Watcher's power, it managed to break through and I see the Phoenix Force as stronger). It's on the individual user to choose whether to say the Phoenix force is in the battle or not though.
Telekinesis can make a relatively imperfect bubble to a certain degree, much as the one Magneto or a Unus evoked. I don't think it can stop air flow.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No it's not up to the individual really.The creator of the thread never said Phoenix, he said Jean Grey. He never said "with Phoenix force". So everyone is just giving her it to help.
And you're correct, it doesn't stop airflow.
-AC
its not given to help...
current jean has phoenix powers... just like current johnny has herald powers...
No, she wasn't born with it. But then again, I'm iffy on adding the cosmically powered Johnny Storm into the fight also. He might lose this in a near future issue and then this would negate the argument of this ability in the fight. Most of us associate him as his former. Besides, I think having Invisible Woman would be enough as it is.
"No, she wasn't born with it. But then again, I'm iffy on adding the cosmically powered Johnny Storm into the fight also. He might lose this in a near future issue and then this would negate the argument of this ability in the fight. Most of us associate him as his former."
Well the key part of this, the part I asked for and the answer to my question "Was she born with phoenix force?", is at the start of the quote.
The answer is no, she was not.
So therefore when the thread creator stated that it was Jean, why is everyone claiming Phoenix?
She is a threat as Phoenix, as Jean she isn't.
The only reason everyone started saying shit about current forms was due to everyone referring to current Ice-Man and current Colossus. If you wanna take it back in the day then the F4 have an even greater chance of winning than they do now coz Colossus was a random, Ice-Man was a nobody and Nightcrawler was Nightcrawler, a nobody also.
-AC
That proves nothing Draco. It's Jean as The Phoenix, that's all.
If she had never ever encountered the Phoenix, Jean Grey would not be associated with her in any way.
Jean Grey was born a mutant telepath. Not as The Phoenix, they are not one and the same.
The thread creator said Jean.
If she is current, then she has Phoenix Force and they have A CHANCE.
If she isn't they do not.
If we are using old versions, the F4 smash it.
-AC
It proves everything. Jean Grey is a Phoenix in an army of Phoenixes. She was bestowed a portion of the Phoenix Force's power like the others. There's no denying it. She was even called a "White Crown" Phoenix. The Phoenix Force bestowed her with its powers like it did to Quentin Quire. No different from Galactus bestowing the power cosmic to Johnny.
Oh and she's back. Apparently she didn't like seeing Emma and Scott in bed together.