** The MISUNDERSTOOD Religon **

Started by Lord Urizen35 pages
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well yeah, but at least in The New Testament Jesus didn't go around killing people. He fed the poor and healed the sick, can't hate that.

Jesus was a great guy....he's not a Christian though. He's a Jew. ✅

Christianity is not based on Jesus....Christianity is based on a set of ideals, ideals borrowed from past mythologies and constructed through means of personal and political bias...Christianity is ever changing, and is responsible for both good and evil occurances.

Jesus is simply the "head figure" or power figure by which Christianity establishes its dominance.

Jesus did NOT invent Christianity, in fact it is very likely that he was NOT even trying to start a new religion.

However, people (especially St. Paul) have taken his philosophies and corrupted them to the point of social endangerment.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Jesus did NOT invent Christianity, in fact it is very likely that he was NOT even trying to start a new religion.

Bzzzt, Wrong. Read the Gospels. Jesus set up an actual organization. 12 apostles, 70 disciples, He had a second in command (Peter/Simon), A treasurer (Judas), He sent these people on missions, gave them training. No a reading of the New Testament definitely shows that he did set up a church. Now if you want to argue that it wasn't the same as modern Christianity, I'd probably actually agree with you. You could say that he meant to be a reformer of Judaism, but we all know that successful reformers almost always splinter off of the source religion, ie Martin Luther, Calvin, etc.

No, I think Jesus knew exactly what he was doing. I think he'd cry at the way Christianity has been used in the centuries since he set it up, but He did nevertheless start it.

Originally posted by docb77
Bzzzt, Wrong. Read the Gospels. Jesus set up an actual organization. 12 apostles, 70 disciples, He had a second in command (Peter/Simon), A treasurer (Judas), He sent these people on missions, gave them training. No a reading of the New Testament definitely shows that he did set up a church. Now if you want to argue that it wasn't the same as modern Christianity, I'd probably actually agree with you. You could say that he meant to be a reformer of Judaism, but we all know that successful reformers almost always splinter off of the source religion, ie Martin Luther, Calvin, etc.

No, I think Jesus knew exactly what he was doing. I think he'd cry at the way Christianity has been used in the centuries since he set it up, but He did nevertheless start it.

1) Reforming an old religion is NOT equivelent to creating a new one...

2) What Jesus organized was more of a philosophy rather than a religion. He didn't ask anyone to worship somebody they didn't already worship. He told people to remember the foundation of the religion they already had: Love...

That is NOT the same as organization a NEW religion Doc... ❌

Originally posted by docb77
Bzzzt, Wrong. Read the Gospels. Jesus set up an actual organization. 12 apostles, 70 disciples, He had a second in command (Peter/Simon), A treasurer (Judas), He sent these people on missions, gave them training. No a reading of the New Testament definitely shows that he did set up a church. Now if you want to argue that it wasn't the same as modern Christianity, I'd probably actually agree with you. You could say that he meant to be a reformer of Judaism, but we all know that successful reformers almost always splinter off of the source religion, ie Martin Luther, Calvin, etc.

No, I think Jesus knew exactly what he was doing. I think he'd cry at the way Christianity has been used in the centuries since he set it up, but He did nevertheless start it.

Urizens right. Christianity didn't start until years after when it was indoctrinated.

Originally posted by Darth Revan
Obviously you know NOTHING about Islam. You've just swallowed everything the media has been telling you about Islam, which is absolutely false. The word "Jihad" doesn't mean "holy war" as you may have been told, it means "conflict". Jihad is any kind of conflict, and under the religious context, it is a conflict in the name of God. More often than not, it is an internal conflict. People who use Jihad as an excuse to commit terrorist acts are extremists who are misusing their religion. In the Qu'ran it says that actual war is only acceptible if someone is preventing you from practicing your religion. Not even oppressing you in another sense, they must be stopping you from being a Muslim. Islam teaches peace and tolerance towards all people more than anything else.

The people are not terrorists just because they are born in an Islamic country and they think they are Muslims. Terrorists are those who follow the teachings of Muhammad. Quran is a book that inspires its followers to hate the non-believers, to kill them, subdue them and treat them as second-class citizens. But not all Muslims follow what Quran teaches. The majority of Muslims are not even aware of what Quran teaches or how Muhammad lived.

Take your own example. You say that you are not a fanatical violent person, you believe in peace, love and tolerance. Did you learn these qualities by reading Quran or are they part of your own family and society values? Let us see what Quran say:

3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah

Is this how you think about your Christian, Hindu or atheist neighbors? Do you really reject the friendship of good people just because they are not Muslims? If you answer in negative then you are not really following the teachings of Quran even though you call yourself a Muslim.

How about this teaching:

2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you

What do you say about this? Did you pack to go to Afghanistan to fight in the Jihad called by the Taliban? Do you think those who did that were wrong? Don’t you think teachings such as these motivate some people to become Jihadis and kill innocent kafirs? How can you reconcile your love for humanity with teachings these teachings?

What about this one?

4:84, Then fight in Allah’s cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.

Do you think this verse teaches tolerance?

Quran is replete with verses such as these. Don’t you think the Islamic terrorists get their inspirations from these verses?

Originally posted by mahasattva
The people are not terrorists just because they are born in an Islamic country and they think they are Muslims. Terrorists are those who follow the teachings of Muhammad. Quran is a book that inspires its followers to hate the non-believers, to kill them, subdue them and treat them as second-class citizens. But not all Muslims follow what Quran teaches. The majority of Muslims are not even aware of what Quran teaches or how Muhammad lived.

Take your own example. You say that you are not a fanatical violent person, you believe in peace, love and tolerance. Did you learn these qualities by reading Quran or are they part of your own family and society values? Let us see what Quran say:

3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah

Is this how you think about your Christian, Hindu or atheist neighbors? Do you really reject the friendship of good people just because they are not Muslims? If you answer in negative then you are not really following the teachings of Quran even though you call yourself a Muslim.

How about this teaching:

2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you

What do you say about this? Did you pack to go to Afghanistan to fight in the Jihad called by the Taliban? Do you think those who did that were wrong? Don’t you think teachings such as these motivate some people to become Jihadis and kill innocent kafirs? How can you reconcile your love for humanity with teachings these teachings?

What about this one?

4:84, Then fight in Allah’s cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.

Do you think this verse teaches tolerance?

Quran is replete with verses such as these. Don’t you think the Islamic terrorists get their inspirations from these verses?

Just because its in the book doesn't mean people follow it. Fundamentalism is fed to these people by a few twisted clerics who opportunize upon the US pathetic role in that region of the world. You don't see such high occourances of fundamentalism in Indonesia, a large Muslim country, but one not so abused by the US and one removed form the Israli conflict.

LITERALISM and FUNDAMENTALISM are the problems. Not a text that was written over a millenia ago.

Originally posted by mahasattva
The people are not terrorists just because they are born in an Islamic country and they think they are Muslims. Terrorists are those who follow the teachings of Muhammad. Quran is a book that inspires its followers to hate the non-believers, to kill them, subdue them and treat them as second-class citizens. But not all Muslims follow what Quran teaches. The majority of Muslims are not even aware of what Quran teaches or how Muhammad lived.

Take your own example. You say that you are not a fanatical violent person, you believe in peace, love and tolerance. Did you learn these qualities by reading Quran or are they part of your own family and society values? Let us see what Quran say:

3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah

Is this how you think about your Christian, Hindu or atheist neighbors? Do you really reject the friendship of good people just because they are not Muslims? If you answer in negative then you are not really following the teachings of Quran even though you call yourself a Muslim.

How about this teaching:

2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you

What do you say about this? Did you pack to go to Afghanistan to fight in the Jihad called by the Taliban? Do you think those who did that were wrong? Don’t you think teachings such as these motivate some people to become Jihadis and kill innocent kafirs? How can you reconcile your love for humanity with teachings these teachings?

What about this one?

4:84, Then fight in Allah’s cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.

Do you think this verse teaches tolerance?

Quran is replete with verses such as these. Don’t you think the Islamic terrorists get their inspirations from these verses?

Thank you!

A Majority of Muslims are NOT aware how their prophet lived NOR what he did. Hence they are peaceful and good people, confused as to why certain group of people is making them look terrible!

Those who are aware of how their prophet lived, either reject Islam, or follow in his footsteps - hence terrorism.

Founder of Islam was a terrorist himself, he was a paedophile, murderer, rapist, mass murderer, ruthless torturer, misogynist, a cult leader, a warlord and a hate mangler.

Ali Sina is challenging Muslims (or anyone really) to disprove Muhammad was all of those, and if they do, he will give them $50, 000 US Dollars, will become a Muslims again, and stop the Ex-Muslims movement.

I think Alliance should go have a chat with Ali Sina. Although I doubt that if a Muslims clerics could not have disproved him wrong, the likelyness of someone who hasn't read the Qur'an is even lower.

prayAli Sina!

Originally posted by Alliance

LITERALISM and FUNDAMENTALISM are the problems. Not a text that was written over a millenia ago.

Ok do me a favour lets imagine you follow a prophet who raped, murdered and pillaged. How should you intepret his teachings?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Thank you!

A Majority of Muslims are NOT aware how their prophet lived NOR what he did. Hence they are peaceful and good people, confused as to why certain group of people is making them look terrible!

Those who are aware of how their prophet lived, either reject Islam, or follow in his footsteps - hence terrorism.

Founder of Islam was a terrorist himself, he was a paedophile, murderer, rapist, mass murderer, ruthless torturer, misogynist, a cult leader, a warlord and a hate mangler.

Ali Sina is challenging Muslims (or anyone really) to disprove Muhammad was all of those, and if they do, he will give them $50, 000 US Dollars, will become a Muslims again, and stop the Ex-Muslims movement.

I think Alliance should go have a chat with Ali Sina. Although I doubt that if a Muslims clerics could not have disproved him wrong, the likelyness of someone who hasn't read the Qur'an is even lower.

prayAli Sina!

thats all bull shit you have no evidance just saying it at the top of ur head

Originally posted by muslimscholar
thats all bull shit you have no evidance just saying it at the top of ur head

Why did Mohamed marry a little girl when he was in his fifties?

Originally posted by Hair Bear
Why did Mohamed marry a little girl when he was in his fifties?

he dident marry a little girl

UMM yeah he did.

Originally posted by muslimscholar
he dident marry a little girl

Yes he did and consumated his marriage when she was 12.

i thought it was when she was 9?

Originally posted by fini
i thought it was when she was 9?

married when she was 9 consummated when she was 12 or 14 depending on the text you read.

explanation
http://www.towardsislam.com/dan_1988/2006/02/why-did-prophet-muhammed-marry-aisha.html

Originally posted by muslimscholar
explanation
http://www.towardsislam.com/dan_1988/2006/02/why-did-prophet-muhammed-marry-aisha.html

Propaganda = biased site

Islam destroyed the old arab beliefs that were more interesting than what we have today, just like christianity did with the "pagan" cults.

All that 1001 Arabian Nights staff... you know.

One religion destroyed another? REALLY! 😱

Originally posted by mahasattva
The people are not terrorists just because they are born in an Islamic country and they think they are Muslims. Terrorists are those who follow the teachings of Muhammad. Quran is a book that inspires its followers to hate the non-believers, to kill them, subdue them and treat them as second-class citizens. But not all Muslims follow what Quran teaches. The majority of Muslims are not even aware of what Quran teaches or how Muhammad lived.

Take your own example. You say that you are not a fanatical violent person, you believe in peace, love and tolerance. Did you learn these qualities by reading Quran or are they part of your own family and society values? Let us see what Quran say:

3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah

Is this how you think about your Christian, Hindu or atheist neighbors? Do you really reject the friendship of good people just because they are not Muslims? If you answer in negative then you are not really following the teachings of Quran even though you call yourself a Muslim.

How about this teaching:

2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you

What do you say about this? Did you pack to go to Afghanistan to fight in the Jihad called by the Taliban? Do you think those who did that were wrong? Don’t you think teachings such as these motivate some people to become Jihadis and kill innocent kafirs? How can you reconcile your love for humanity with teachings these teachings?

What about this one?

4:84, Then fight in Allah’s cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.

Do you think this verse teaches tolerance?

Quran is replete with verses such as these. Don’t you think the Islamic terrorists get their inspirations from these verses?

Great to know this thread is alive again. I was surprised! Haven't visited in ages.

That is a very bold statement you are making there by declaring that the followers of Muhammad and Quran are the terrorist. However, we'll get back to that one later, let's focus on the quotes you have provided in your response which give a classic example of taking things out of context. I am not here to defend Islam, but to provide a rationale of some sort since I am trying to approach this objectively for the sake of inquisitive and seeking people like yourself.

The full verse is:

3:28 Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yousrelves from them. But Allah cautions you (to remember) himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

If you go back to the beginning of this section, beginning from 3:21, you will come across this statement, "As to those who deny the Signs of Allah, and in defiance of right, slay the prophets and slay those who teach just dealing with mankind, announce to them a grievous penalty." And if you carry those people described above throughout the rest of the section, you will see that it is those people who are the Unbelievers in this sense (or at least that's how I interpret it, but based on logical understanding). Basically, it is saying that those who, to defend themselves, "slay the prophets and those who teach just dealing with mankind," do not acquaint yourself with them. It is said, that your company will display your character or another saying would be "evil communications corrupt good manners." Would you like your children to befriend a murderer?

The full verse is:

2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

If you know anything about the Quran, it is to not separate little sections and make them stand out for themselves. Quran works as a whole body. For example, you can take a verse of a Bible and it stands out on its on (I give this example, but I know more about the Bible than any other I could think of), but Quran, it's a unified text. That in mind, this Surah that you are citing encompasses the entire religion into the longest chapter in the Holy Book. If you read, it talks about the pilgrimage, women, charity, inheritance... and deals with it in small quantity here and there. Quran talks about charity here, and does so in many other verses. Further on from this verse, we read "they ask thee ...." What it is stating is a mere summary of the entire act itself - and because it's a summary, there are many instances in which the act is further described. (because we all know that the chapters were not necessary revealed in the order you see it written)Regardless, if you would follow me to to 2:190 (the entire passage might intrigue you, to be honest, but I shall cite whatever suits my purpose)

2:190 onward: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not trangress limits; for Allah loveth not trangressors. [it describes how to deal with those trangressors which contains the infamous passage "And slay them wherever ye catch them" etc etc] But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah, but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.

I think this verse is quite self explanatory - the strife is against those who oppress and transgress - kinda like what the US did against Iraq because of Saddam Hussein who was oppressive, "so let's eliminate the danger and rid of him altogether" was the thought that led all there.

The full verse is:

4:84, Then fight in Allah’s cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.

Good finding, like many other that are very easy to find since people have a tendency to take everything and make it stand on its own in the Quran. However, let's start with a verse not too far behind, please take the time to read for it is a bit long,

4:81 onwards: They have "obedience" on their lips; but when they leave thee, a section of them meditate all night on things very different from what thou tellest them [hypocrites are being referred here]. But Allah records their nightly (plots): so keep clear of them, and put thy trust in Allah, and enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs. Do they not consider the Quran (with care)? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therin much discrepancy. When there comes to them some matter touching (public) safety or fear, they divulge it. If they had only referred it to the Messenger or to those charged with authority among them, the proper investigators would have tested it from them (direct). Were it not for the Grace and Mercy of Allah unto you, All but a few of your would have followed Satan. Then fight in Allah's cause - thou art herd responsible Only for thyself - and rouse the Believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the furty of the Unbelievers; For Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment. Whoever recommends and helps a good cause becomes a partner therein: and whoever recommends and helps an evil cause, shares in its burden: And Allah hath power over all things."

Who are being talked about here? Hypocrites, as I mentioned, and those who do wrong. It is clearly stated, and I would like to emphasize, "whoever recommends and helps a good cause becomes a partner therein: and whoever recommends and helps an evil cause, shares in its burden." Who are bad? Those who do bad things. Who are good? Those who recommend and help a good cause. This is a theme carried throughout the Quran.

---

And because you had stated that followers of the Quran and Prophet's teachings are terrorist, I will provide you with some example (of course, not all, that's a big book to cite verses from) that teach good things.

4:86 When a (courteous) greeting is offered you, meet it with a greeting still more courteous, or (at least) of equal courtesy. Allah takes careful account of all things.

Note, it is not said "when a courteous greeting is offered you by a fellow muslim brother, only then meet it with a greeting still more...." it is very general in stating: Deal with courtesy all who deal with you nicely. Simple and plain as that.

2:277 Those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, and establish regular prayers, and regular charity, will have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, not shall they grieve."

And,

2:254 Oh ye who believe! Spend out of (the bounties) we have provided for you, before the Day [of judgment] comes when no bargaining (will avail), not friendship nor intercession. Those who reject Faith - they are wrongdoers."

I would like to note, that here it is talking about Day of Judgment in which each individual's dealings will be with God and God alone including all - wrongdoers and those who do right.