. You are attacking a belief system, many can be offended by itso.
And yes, I am a Muslim. I follow Islam because of what it teaches: peace and respect to others.dont need to follow a religion to be thaught that, and Islam doesnt show too much respect towards other religions, just like some other big religion discussed in this thread
Originally posted by finti
so.Islam doesnt show too much respect towards other religions
What way do you mean that? We believe that all other religions, Judaism (sp?), christianity and other monothiestic ones, were taught by messangers of God, therefore they are His teachings. To regard them as inferior to ours or disrespect them in any way is considered a disregard towards His teachings, which is in its own way a sin.
Originally posted by finti
yeah try to set up an Odinist temple in Mecca or Riyadh or Islamabad
I agree with that statement. You can not set up some other temple in an Islamic nation. But I guess you did not read some of my last posts. During the rise of Islam, if Muslims conquer a land they were to give them choice to accept or decline the religion, if they choose to decline, they were given protection from the Muslims and allowed to do as they please. The only option was, indeed, to not to display their faith in large numbers.
That has nothing to do with respecting our teachings of other's religions. We have to respect others... plain and simple. Take it from me, I'm a muslim. I am not allowed to insult or degrade or offend any body else's religion. I have to remain in my boundries.
Look into Islam's correct history, you will find what you need to know. And the only way to make sure you are looking at it from the right source, to get the main source itself : The Qur'an.
I would appreciate it if you come up with valid points rather than insults.
they were given protection from the Muslims and allowed to do as they please. The only option was, indeed, to not to display their faith in large numbersthat is lack of respect of other set of believes
And the only way to make sure you are looking at it from the right source, to get the main source itself :The Qur'an.i consider the bible and the Quran equal, and you would probably consider my views on that book as an insult.
You can not set up some other temple in an Islamic nation.but Muslims demands that they can set up mosques here in Norway and call it racism as long as they are denied. If you can not set up a temple/church or whatever in a islamic nation then that religion of that nation has no respect for other ways of worship.
I would appreciate it if you come up with valid points rather than insultsand as far as insults goes, I havent even started on that path yet, I have not posted my true feelings and thoughts toward organized religions. So what has been these so called insults you refer too, cause if you cant take what little that has been said in here then you are too hypersensitive and this is obviously not the right place for that
This place is not for insults but to present insightful and thoughtful ideas. If you can not bare that, than maybe it's you that should not be here. I understand your viewpoints and don't ask you to accept the religion or to like it, the only thing I ask is that you respect not only this, but every other religion out there. If you speak with a respectful voice, others will pay close attention to you, I can guarantee that. I also noticed you speaking of Christianity with the "not-yet-insult." I respect Christianity and Islam the same way, all I'm saying is that you should become more open minded and look outside the little window you've set up in your world, I'm sure you have some strong points against Islam and that is completely understandable. But if you want those issues addressed, then do so with dignity, and in a way that does not drop down your standard in anyone else's eyes.
Know the difference between legtimate bias and an illegitimate one. You're choosing the illegitimate where you already have a conclusion and looking for the facts to back it up. I understand and even appreciate your viewpoints for it is my job as a Muslim to tell the others who have concerns about the religion and who are willing to listen. By posting on this forum, you are supposed to understand and recognize that the world does not consists of only your opinion, but of many others that feel the need to say what they want to say. If you disagree with people doing so, than this website isn't right for you.
As far as the mosque in Norway, yes, if your country allows right to practice religion, than it is the government who is at fault. However, if it doesn't, if only one religion dominates their and government does not allow any other to be present, than it's the Muslim's fault. Then they are the ones who need to look at themselves and consider their actions. But, it is biased of you to take one point and address it to us Muslims and say it is us who do what a small group is doing. Consider that. If you don't like the Qur'an or don't wish to read it, than I'm certainly not forcing you! That would be imprudent and wrong of me to do so.
So think about what you say next time, and pretend to understand other's viewpoints. Maybe that would lead you to a more open-minded state.
the only thing I ask is that you respect not only this, but every other religion out there.why should I respect religion as long as many of the religion dont respect other peoples point of view they cant expect to get respect back at them.
However, if it doesn't, if only one religion dominates their and government does not allow any other to be presentyou see that would be totalitarian which means no respect of others set of beliefs.
all I'm saying is that you should become more open minded and look outside the little window you've set up in your worldI should be open minded?, me who look beyond religious beliefs, me who look into other options to us being here rather than that of an so called deity, me who can go beyond certain set rules, me who can actually decide myself and not bound by some ancient out of date rules, me who can eat whatever I want. The little window is the work of the religious ones, those are the narrow minded.
By posting on this forum, you are supposed to understand and recognize that the world does not consists of only your opinion, but of many others that feel the need to say what they want to say.exactly but then they must tolerate that people might not find it all that believable either, that they might criticize it that faithful might find responses insulting.
But, it is biased of you to take one point and address it to us Muslims and say it is us who do what a small group is doingyou wanted examples I gave you one. Another thing a small group of muslims in Norway did is that they(the religious leaders) defended their own member who committed rape. Blaming it on the Norwegian women who were victims cause they dress too temptingly. Now for a nation that has its own culture how do you think we react when some religious leader run around telling us his moral views this moral views that and we are just a bunch of barbaric infidels cause we live the way we live. Well my word to him is if he doesnt like it here piss off back to where he came from.
Originally posted by finti
[B]why should I respect religion as long as many of the religion dont respect other peoples point of view they cant expect to get respect back at them.
If you don't like them respecting your religion, then why should you become one of them? Talk about lowering down your standards, what better are you than them?
you see that would be totalitarian which means no respect of others set of beliefs.
And if a religion is dominant and doesnt allow others to be present now where is the respect for other religion then?
I was talking about your country here. The totalitarian part, i believe, I said that if your nation does not allow it, then Muslims should not speak up. I am unaware of what your country allows and what it doesn't allow. And the respect for other religion is not to allow it, necessarily, but to not to insult it openly. Call it names, and say that it's the wrong path. How many religions don't do that? If you're an atheist, than it's a different story. But I also understand why that would be so, not necessarily agree with, but I get the reasoning behind it. If you don't agree with Islam's viewpoints, than say so, give me proof and if it's able, than maybe it will shut me up and go look at the Qur'an to find reason and proof. You see, we find everything we need in the Qur'an, there is reason and cause for everything. All is written there.
I should be open minded?, me who look beyond religious beliefs, me who look into other options to us being here rather than that of an so called deity, me who can go beyond certain set rules, me who can actually decide myself and not bound by some ancient out of date rules, me who can eat whatever I want. The little window is the work of the religious ones, those are the narrow minded.
Being open minded does not mean you do what you want. It is the ability to be able to understand, if not agree with, other's opinions. Being able to "eat whatever you want" is not the definition. In reply to your "ancient out of date rules," what do you consider the "modern rules?" I guess this is what I do not understand, i hope you help me at this topic. To be able to perform open debauchery? To get drunk and wander in streets half naked? Is that what is "modern rules?" At least what you refer to as "ancient rules" are more decent. To go beyond certain rules, is certainly not open mindedness. To know that there are other windows open and study them, understand them, disagree or agree with them is a better pathway. But to preach the world according to your point of view as a religious leader, is certainly, narrow mindedness. I agree with that point.
Back to the point of Islam teaching respect for other religions is taught strictly in Qur'an. The ones who follow it, good for them. But the ones who do not are those that taint the name of Islam. I gave you the reason why we are taught to respect other's religion, because it is also a work of God. Whether you believe in one deity or not, is irrelevent at this point. In Islam, this is what is taught.
Sorry for not replying in only one post, don't know why my replies are just so long.
what do you consider the "modern rules?"to renew oneself to the time we living in
At least what you refer to as "ancient rules" are more decentdecent for you maybe, ancient and out of date to others.
If you don't like them respecting your religion, then why should you become one of them? Talk about lowering down your standards, what better are you than them?it aint about lowering down the standard it is doing to them what they do to me, if thats the way they want to treat others well then thats the way they be treated
I am unaware of what your country allows and what it doesn't allow.my country has freedom of religion
You see, we find everything we need in the Qur'an, there is reason and cause for everything. All is written therejust because it is written there doesnt make it the truth, just like the bible. And no I dont agree with the qua'ran at all, whenever deities is involved I pass
And the respect for other religion is not to allow it, necessarily, but to not to insult it openly.if you dont allow it you dont respect it either, what respect is it to other people and their religion if the right to believe in what they want to believ is denied.
I respect others peoples religion, what i dont respect is that they preach about it, telling others that their way is wrong. What you believe and how to practise it should be a personal matter, as long as it aint I have to say what I feel about that particulare matter and if they say all other set of believes are wrong, well all we can do is fire back with same ammo.
I think this is an ongoing argument. Neither of us are coming to any conclusion. We both have different definitions of each. And I can not waste time any longer for something that is not worth it.
Just one suggestion, if your mind is set upon "revenge" (for what they are doing to you must be done to them), then you will not go anywhere. It's better to be dignified than that. That's all I will say.