How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive What? Peejayd, now I am thoroughly convinced that you are misguided in your understanding of Who Jesus Christ really is. I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. First you insert the letter "a" in front of God to make it read Jesus is a god. But now you say that Jesus is not human. You are severely in error. A true believer in Christ cannot say that Jesus is not human because that is tantamount to saying that Jesus did not come in the flesh. That is what John 1:14 means when it says that the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. It means that Jesus, God the Son, became a Man, a human being. Read:

"For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that confess not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."
II John 7

* Christ came IN THE FLESH, it does not say that Christ came AS FLESH or Christ IS FLESH...

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
I Timothy 3:16

* Christ's true being is a God manifested in the flesh, that's why He came in the flesh... Christ became a human, eh?

"He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.
Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had, and took the nature of a servant. He became like a human being and appeared in human likeness."
Philippians 2:6-7

* Christ is a God, manifested in the flesh, He took the nature of a servant, He became LIKE a human being and appeared in human LIKENESS...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive I love the way God the Holy Spirit emphasizes certain aspects of Jesus' nature so that we end up with a complete montage as it were. In this case the apostle Paul (under the Holy Spirit's inspiration) wants us to see the humanity-side of Jesus dual nature. But in other passages you will see writers emphasize the deity of Christ. That is why in one instance Jesus is referred to as our great God and Savior, but in another passage Jesus is called "Man" or "Son of Man." God the Father knew that these types of issues would surface so He inspired the writers to strategically reveal certain Truths about Jesus. Did you notice that I said that that Father inspired the writers and not the Holy Spirit that time? I did not intentionally mean to do that. I think the Father lead me to do that becaue they are One (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Not One Person, but One God. Glory to God!

* notice the punctuation mark at the end of I Timothy 2:5? let us continue reading until verse 6...

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."
I Timothy 2:5-6

* the "man Christ Jesus" written by Saint Paul was the one who gave Himself a ransom for all... what was that? is the "man" written by Saint Paul pertains to Christ entirely?

"By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
Hebrews 10:10

* Saint Paul clears this up in his epistle to the Hebrews that the "man" pertains to the body of Christ offered... pretty evident because the body of Christ is human flesh... that's why Christ was manifested in the flesh...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Did you get that? Jesus was in all points tempted as we are yet without sin. Jesus walked this earth as the God-Man. He was tempted to commit sin just like we are. The difference is that Jesus did not yield to sin.

* yes, got that... but do you got that?

"If they sin against thee (for there is no man that sinneth not) , and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captive unto the land of the enemy, far off or near;"
I Kings 8:46

"Surely there is not a righteous man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not."
Ecclesiastes 7:20

"For all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;"
The Romans 3:23

"Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:--"
The Romans 5:12

* all humans commit sin but Christ did not, not one bit... Christ is definitely not human... He was only manifested in the flesh, He only appeared in human likeness...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive [COLOR=darkblue]Jesus got hungry, tired, slept, wept. After Jesus was conceived in the virgin Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit's power, He (Jesus) had to develop in His human, earthly mother's womb just like any other developing fetus. Jesus had to be born into the world just like any other human being. Jesus had to drink His earthly mother's milk, then eat solid food, then learn to talk, then learn to walk, then learn to go to the potty, then learn to dress Himself, then learn how to bathe himself, then learn how to make a lamb sandwich...I mean...then learn how to count, then learn how to read, then learn how to drive (the family donkey, just joking, I have to add some levity to this post), but then Jesus had to learn how to learn the carpentry trade, then learn how to do all of the other things that humans learn. Read:

* whoa, there! i do not deny the human aspects of Jesus, there is human in Jesus and that is His body/flesh... because if Jesus is a God-Man like you claim, it would be hard for you to reconcile that pre-conceived idea to this passage in the Bible...

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,"
Colossians 2:9

* it would be impertinent for Saint Paul to say that Christ is a God-Man when the fullness of Godhead dwelleth in Christ bodily...

* plus, I Timothy says Christ was manifested in the flesh... what's point of manifesting in the flesh if Christ is flesh all along?

* and please... "God-Man"? it sounds like a mermaid to me...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Uh, oh...Peejayd, if Jesus was just God the Son and not human at the same time then how come He had to increase in wisdom? See, that is the human aspect of Jesus' divine/human nature. Jesus is both God and Man and He will forever be that way so that He can always relate to us, emphathize with us. God--the Son--knows what it is to be a human. He understands our struggles with sin (although He did not ever sin). Jesus knows what we feel first-hand. Go ahead Jesus!

* there is human in Jesus and that is His body/flesh...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive The coming in the likeness of men part is not the same as what you said. You said that Jesus "became like." That is different than "coming in the likeness of." Jesus was born into this world from a virgin by the Holy Spirit's power. Jesus Christ is the Word "made flesh." In other words, Jesus is all God and all Man. Jesus often referred to Himself as the Son of Man. Why do you think that He did that? Jesus wanted his audience to know that He is as much human as He is God. That is why He referred to Himself as the Son of God as well. So that His audience (as well as us today) would know that He is as much God--the Son--as He is human. Jesus did not become like a human being. The day I was born I did not become like a human, I am a human. You, Peejayd, were born a human, you did not become like a human being--you are a human being. And, Jesus did not become like a human being, He is a human being but God at the same time. If you can find what you assert anywhere in the Bible then I must and will recant this statement. I will come into agreement immediately. But the truth of the matter is that the interpretation that you maintain is unsupportable by the Bible.

"But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."
Philippians 2:7-8
King James Version

"But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.
And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."
Philippians 2:8
Modern King James Version

"But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross."
Philippians 2:7-8
The American Standard Version

"But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross."
Philippians 2:7-8
Revised Standard Version

"But made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death- even death on a cross!"
Philippians 2:7-8
New International Version

"Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had, and took the nature of a servant. He became like a human being and appeared in human likeness.
He was humble and walked the path of obedience all the way to death--- his death on the cross."
Philippians 2:8
Good News Bible

"But emptied himself, taking a bondman's form, taking his place in the likeness of men;
and having been found in figure as a man, humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of the cross."
Philippians 2:7-8
Darby Bible

"But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man.
He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross."
Philippians 2:7-8
Douay-Rheims Version

"Instead he gave up everything and became a slave, when he became like one of us.
Christ was humble. He obeyed God and even died on a cross."
Philippians 2:7-8

"But emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave, having become in the likeness of men
And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, having become obedient until death, even the death of a cross."
Philippians 2:8
Literal Translation

* it is very evident, the consistency of the different translations tells us that Christ really is not human... Christ manifested in the flesh and by doing so, He appeared in human likeness...

* another thing, Christ exists even before He was born in the flesh by Mary... Christ exists before Mary and even before Abraham... Christ exists even before the Creation...

* so if you accept that Christ exists even before the Creation, what is the being of Christ before the Creation? a God-Man?

* and now that Christ is in heaven with the Father, is Christ still a God-Man? remember that flesh and blood is not accepted in heaven (I Corinthians 15:50)...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Peejayd, with all due respect that is what you have done, almost without any qualms. Actually I don't think that you feel any qualms about changing Scripture. I suspect that you do not believe that you are changing Scripture. Nevertheless, I believe that you are. But when you do it you are doing it without drawing a well-supported inference from the Scripture. God allows for clarification of His Word but He does not condone the complete altering and changing of His Word. I strive to make sure that any explanatory text (that I put in brackets by the way so that you all will know that it is not included in Scripture but intended to clarify) that I insert is there conceptually and/or inferentially, without changing the meaning. Explanatory comments should reinforce what the Scripture has already said and explain it, but it should never alter the meaning.

* i doubt you never alter the meaning, those ideas enclosed in brackets are surely your pre-conceived ideas and conclusions....

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive My point precisely. I have been affirming all along that Jesus is God in the flesh, but He is God the Son, not God the Father. Moreover, I have positively stated that Jesus is God "made flesh." Hence, Jesus is the only divine Man; yes Jesus has a dual nature. This is consistent with Scripture. My Lord is both flesh (human) and God (divine) simultaneously and forevermore. Go ahead Jesus!

* hello? flesh, blood and bones are all corruptible and mortal... those cannot last forever or for eternity...

* Christ is not human, He was only manifested in the flesh...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Look up the word firstborn in a good bible dictionary. Besides its obvious meaning there is another shade or sense that that word connotes depending on the context.

* we are talking about Christ, of course...

"That God hath fulfilled the same unto our children, in that he raised up Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."
The Acts 13:33

* my argument still stands, it was the Father who gave birth to Christ before the Creation...

"For in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
And he is before all things, and in him all things consist."
Colossians 1:16-17

* see?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive I held/hold this understanding and interpretation before I submitted this post. But Jesus could have used any other term to exrpress that He pre-existed Abraham. Jesus deliberately chose to use the expression I AM. Jesus could have easily said, "you know fellas, I existed before Abraham was born." Jesus could have said it this way too: "Before Abraham "was" I "was." His audience would have easily understood Him had He used either expression. But Jesus didn't do that. Well, what did Jesus do/say: Jesus used the self-existent term that His Father used. Jesus and the Father are one God but different Persons. Jesus is God--the Son. The Lord God is God--the Father. The Spirit of God is God--the Holy Spirit.

* due to your confusion and pre-conceived idea, let me read the verse for you...

"And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
Exodus 3:13-14

* remember that Moses asks what the name of God is... the answer is: "I am That Iam"... in other translations...

"God replied, "I Am the One Who Always Is. Just tell them, 'I Am has sent me to you.'"
Exodus 3:14
New Living Translation

"God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you."
Exodus 3:14
Douay-Rheims Version

"God said to Moses: I am the eternal God. So tell them that the LORD, whose name is "I Am," has sent you. This is my name forever, and it is the name that people must use from now on."
Exodus 3:14
Contemporary English Version

* now, on to the conversation of Jesus and the Jews...

"The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"
John 8:57

* are the Jews asking the name of Christ? my, my, you're dead wrong, my friend...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Uh...Peejayd...Father's don't give birth....Mary (who formerly was a virgin at Jesus conception) gave birth, not the Father.

* who sez?

"He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? He that formed the eye, shall he not see?
He that chastiseth the nations, shall not he correct, Even he that teacheth man knowledge?"
Psalms 94:9-10

* He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? He that formed the eye, shall he not see?

* Christ is the Only Begotten Son of the Father... and He was not given birth by the Father? hello?

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24

* remember that the Father is a spirit... do spirits give birth?

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
John 3:6

* the Father is very much capable of giving birth... and to prove that, where was Christ before He was given birth by the Father?

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 1:18

* Christ was in the bosom of the Father...

* and if you're trying to be funny by saying males don't give birth, try asking seahorses, my friend... 😉

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.[b]

He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

Originally posted by mahasattva
In the beginning there is nothing..no word..the universe was not born with word...the universe is beginningless and endless beyond space-time continoum....the word of God is made by Man-the Bible.

* Saint John was not talking about the Creation, my friend... let us ask Saint John, what are you talking about?

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that should be written."
John 21:25

* at the very last verse, Saint John reveals that everything he wrote was about Jesus Christ... so basically, John 1:1 is about the beginning of Christ and NOT the Creation... 😉

Originally posted by peejayd
* at the very last verse, Saint John reveals that everything he wrote was about Jesus Christ... so basically, John 1:1 is about the beginning of Christ and NOT the Creation... 😉

* i do... 😉