Originally posted by peejayd
* nope, the Gnostics preached a different "Jesus" and is not in accordance with the other books..."Salute one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ salute you."
The Romans 16:16* and Saint Paul preached the Church of Jesus... 😉
You are the one who is wrong. All you have to do is read the Gospels that the Roman church tried to destroy.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are the one who is wrong. All you have to do is read the Gospels that the Roman church tried to destroy.
You mean the ones that have been dated to times when the original apostles were definitely dead?
The pseudopigrapha is good to read, but you have to take it with a grain of salt, since it wasn't written by first or secondhand witnesses.
-edit-
of course that doesn't mean that we won't someday find new material that is a first or secondhand account, just that we haven't so far. The roman church did a pretty good job of destroying anything they didn't agree with.
Originally posted by docb77
You mean the ones that have been dated to times when the original apostles were definitely dead?The pseudopigrapha is good to read, but you have to take it with a grain of salt, since it wasn't written by first or secondhand witnesses.
-edit-
of course that doesn't mean that we won't someday find new material that is a first or secondhand account, just that we haven't so far. The roman church did a pretty good job of destroying anything they didn't agree with.
I believe that the Gospels of Thomas and Mary are authentic copies, because I have read them and they are consistent with the teachings of Jesus, but not with the teachings of Paul.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I believe that the Gospels of Thomas and Mary are authentic copies, because I have read them and they are consistent with the teachings of Jesus, but not with the teachings of Paul.
I haven't researched the Gospel of Mary, but that of Thomas has been shown to be a compilation from the 2nd century AD. While it does contain many of Jesus teachings, it is similar to if somone from today wrote about Abe Lincoln, Using the identity of Gen. Ulysses S. Grant.
Originally posted by docb77
I haven't researched the Gospel of Mary, but that of Thomas has been shown to be a compilation from the 2nd century AD. While it does contain many of Jesus teachings, it is similar to if somone from today wrote about Abe Lincoln, Using the identity of Gen. Ulysses S. Grant.
You are making one assumption, that the gospels in the bible are earlier documents. There is no way to support this assumption.
Gnostics directly contradict what Jesus Christ was. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment Old Testament prophecies of the Messiah.
Gnostics teach a Christ that contradicts the prophecied Messiah. Gnostics are strongly influenced by Greek philosophy which states that the Spirit is innately good and that the flesh is the evil. They use this rational to claim that Jesus Christ never claim in flesh which is contradiction to prophecy. Many of them claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin birth, also a contradiction to prophecy. They also claim that Jesus never died on the cross, another contradiction. This means that he did not rise from the dead, leaving even more prophecy unfulfilled. Thomas also denies Jesus as a teacher contradicting more prophecy. Furthermore, it seems to deny the true divinity of Christ which contradicts prophecies. I am also of the opinion that these gnostic texts can be dated to the early second century not predating the canonical scriptures. Gnostic are the undoubtedly reason that John wrote this verse:
"Because many FALSE PROPHETS have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ has COME IN THE FLESH is from from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and is already in the world" 1 John 4:1-3
The Gnostic Church is not the Church of Christ.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Gnostics directly contradict what Jesus Christ was. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment Old Testament prophecies of the Messiah.
Gnostics teach a Christ that contradicts the prophecied Messiah. Gnostics are strongly influenced by Greek philosophy which states that the Spirit is innately good and that the flesh is the evil. They use this rational to claim that Jesus Christ never claim in flesh which is contradiction to prophecy. Many of them claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin birth, also a contradiction to prophecy. They also claim that Jesus never died on the cross, another contradiction. This means that he did not rise from the dead, leaving even more prophecy unfulfilled. Thomas also denies Jesus as a teacher contradicting more prophecy. Furthermore, it seems to deny the true divinity of Christ which contradicts prophecies. I am also of the opinion that these gnostic texts can be dated to the early second century not predating the canonical scriptures. Gnostic are the undoubtedly reason that John wrote this verse:
"Because many FALSE PROPHETS have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ has COME IN THE FLESH is from from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and is already in the world" 1 John 4:1-3
The Gnostic Church is not the Church of Christ.
First, you do not know that John wrote that for that reason. You don't even know that John even wrote that gospel. Second, I don't believe in the prophecy, that is the church of Paul.
Jesus was not divine and may not have died on the cross, I don't know. I don't believe in all of the teachings of the Gnostics, but IMO they are more consistent with the teaching of Jesus.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
First, you do not know that John wrote that for that reason. You don't even know that John even wrote that gospel. Second, I don't believe in the prophecy, that is the church of Paul.Jesus was not divine and may not have died on the cross, I don't know. I don't believe in all of the teachings of the Gnostics, but IMO they are more consistent with the teaching of Jesus.
By consistent, do you mean with what is found in the 4 recognized gospels, vs the epistles of Paul? or vs the modern teachings of christianity? Because the 4 Gospels of the NT are really the only things to compare the pseudopigrapha to.
Originally posted by docb77
By consistent, do you mean with what is found in the 4 recognized gospels, vs the epistles of Paul? or vs the modern teachings of christianity? Because the 4 Gospels of the NT are really the only things to compare the pseudopigrapha to.
Just the reported words of Jesus in the four gospels. Not the commentary by other people, just the quotes of Jesus by themselves.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Just the reported words of Jesus in the four gospels. Not the commentary by other people, just the quotes of Jesus by themselves.
Originally posted by Nellinator
One important thing missing from Gnostic texts is any mention of consequences of sin. Gnostics do not deal with morality as shown in the text and by the writings of Ireneus (which may be, admittedly biased) which is not consistent with Christ at all. Gnostics also believe in reaching God through understanding and knowledge and rituals. Jesus Christ says "I am the way the truth and the light, NO ONE come to the Father EXCEPT through me". Gnostics do not believe this and this a HUGE contradiction.
The Gnostics are more like Buddhists.
If I stand in a door way and say only though me can you leave the room, when I go through the door, do you still have to go through me?
Originally posted by Nellinator
What you fail to understand mahasattva is that God is the only TRUE god. Other gods exist, but they are demons as I showed in my previous post. That is why God commands us not to use their names. Yes, Jesus was sent especially for the Jews, but that does not exclude his salvation from others as I also showed. Yes, the Jews are (some say were) God's chosen people, but that does not exclude from being God over all nations as I also showed. The passage from Mark that you quote only proves my point... Jesus was sent to the Jews, but when we Gentiles show enough faith and accept Christ as Lord, he does not withhold this grace from us. You consisently claim against the Bible but show no understanding of its message or meanings.
What is their assumption that the god of the Jews is the only true god and that other gods from other nations are demons? How can a god be the only true God and also how can a god turn into a demon? Are u saying that god and demon are one and the same thing?
Originally posted by mahasattva
What is their assumption that the god of the Jews is the only true god and that other gods from other nations are demons? How can a god be the only true God and also how can a god turn into a demon? Are u saying that god and demon are one and the same thing?
Originally posted by Nellinator
A funny analogy, but one that does not apply here. Accepting Jesus as the Son of God is the only way to God.
What is funny is that there are many Buddhist texts that speak in this way. In the Lotus sutra, Buddha says that the following can only be understood by Buddha’s, and then he tells of the ten true aspects of nature. If we cannot understand, why did he tell us?
Jesus was the way, the middle way, but Buddha was the way before him and Nichiren the way after him.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What is funny is that there are many Buddhist texts that speak in this way. In the Lotus sutra, Buddha says that the following can only be understood by Buddha’s, and then he tells of the ten true aspects of nature. If we cannot understand, why did he tell us?Jesus was the way, the middle way, but Buddha was the way before him and Nichiren the way after him.
Originally posted by Nellinator
You seem to have a hard time understanding. God is God of everthing and everyone and always has been. The other gods that people worship are demons and always have been demons. God and demons are exact opposites as in they are in opposition to each other.
There is no gods or demons, there is only you, and you are a part of God.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Are you saying that in your belief, Jesus was a Buddha?
Yes and no. Jesus was never in any Buddhist text, but I see Jesus as a Buddha.