How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Originally posted by peejayd

"Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,"
Titus 2:13

"Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:"
II Peter 1:1

* according to Saint Paul and Saint Peter, Christ is a God and Savior...

Let us see if there is any justification for these claims. If Jesus really was God it is very strange that he never said so. There is not one place in the whole of the Bible where Jesus simply and unambiguously says, "I am God". Christians will object to this and say that Jesus often called himself or was called the Son of God. However, the Bible clearly shows that any person who was good and had faith qualified to be called a Son of God. For example, Jesus called Adam a son of God (Lk 3:38).
It will happen that in the very place where it was said of them "you are not my people" they will be called "sons of the living God" (Rom 9:26).
Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your father in heaven (Matt 5:44-45).

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (Gal 3:26).

You are God's; you are all sons of the most high (Ps 82:6).

Jesus is called God's 'only begotten son' but even this is not unique. In the Psalms God says to King David, "You are my son, today I have begotten you" (Ps 2:7) In fact, Jesus said distinctly that when he called himself a son of God, he did not mean he was God or related to God in a literal sense. When the Jewish priests criticized him for claiming to be equal with God, Jesus said:

Is it not written in your law, "I have said you are gods"? If he called them "gods" to whom the word of God came - and the Scripture cannot be broken what about one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? (Jn 10:34-36).

Christians make an enormous fuss about Jesus' claims to be a son of God but as we can see, there is absolutely nothing unique in this claim. Christians could claim that the term 'son of God' is used in the Bible in two different ways - as a title for a particularly holy person and for the actual son of God, Jesus, who was with God in heaven before coming to earth. But even in this second sense Jesus was not unique. The Bible tells us that God had numerous sons with him in heaven who later came to earth and lived with humans just as Jesus did.

In the Bible Jesus is called the Son of Man more than 80 times. Yet the Bible also tells us that in the eyes of God the Son of Man is nothing more than a worm (Job, 25:6). How can Christians claim that the Son of Man is God when the Bible itself says that the Son of Man is nothing more than a worm? Christians will then insist that Jesus was called the Messiah, but again it was not unusual to be called a Messiah. The Hebrew word messiah of which the Greek translation is christos simply means 'anointed one', and refers to anyone sent by God to help the people of Israel. Even a non-Jew could be and sometimes was called a Messiah. The Bible even calls the pagan Persian King Cyrus a Messiah because he let God's people return to their homeland (Is 45:1). So just because Jesus was called the Messiah does not prove he was God. In fact, throughout the Bible Jesus goes out of his way to make it clear that he was not God. When someone called Jesus 'good teacher' he said:
Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone (Lk 18:19).
Now if Jesus was God why would he deny that he was good? We are told that Jesus prayed, but if he was God why would he need to pray to himself? And when Jesus prayed, he said to God, "not my will but yours" (Lk 22:42). Quite clearly Jesus is making a distinction between God's will and his own. Jesus says that no one has even seen God (Jn 1:18), meaning that when people saw him they were not seeing God. Again Jesus says he can do nothing without God.

I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can only do what he sees the Father do (Jn 5:19).

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me (Jn 5:30).

I can do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me (Jn :28).

If Jesus was God he could do anything he wanted to do, and in these passages and dozens of others he is making it as clear as crystal that he is one thing and God another. Jesus said, "The Father is greater than I" (Jn 14:28) making it clear that he is not as great as God and therefore different from God.

Jesus said that at the end of the world he would be sitting at the right hand of God to judge the world (Lk 22:69). If Jesus and God are the same being, how is this possible? Quite clearly the two are separate and different. And again David is described as sitting on the right hand of God, so to do this one does not have be a god (Ps 110:1). We are told that Jesus stands between God and man.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ (1 Tim 2:5).

This passage clearly states that Jesus is not God, for if he was, how could he stand' between God and men? It also specifically calls Jesus a man (see also Acts l7:3 -31). In the Gospels of Matthew and Luke (Matt 1:16, Lk 3:23) we are given the* name of Jesus' father, his father's father, and so on, back through many generations. if God was really Jesus' father, why does the Bible list all Jesus' ancestors on his father's side? Christians are forever claiming that Jesus is God and at the same time that he is the son of God. But how is this possible? How can I father be his own son and himself all at the same time? And to make matters more confused, the Holy Spirit is brought in and we are asked to believe that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are different and yet the same.
The claim of Christians that Jesus is God contradicts what the Bible says, it goes against common sense and it raises numerous logical problems. Whereas if we sci Jesus as he was, a reformer and prophet, none of these problems arise.

The fact is that if God can only be understood as "a personal God who is the Creator, who has revealed himself in the Bible, and who has given his only Son to die for our sins so that we can have eternal life" then I can not believe in God, because I do not find that description of God very credible or even intelligible.

The Buddhist tradition did not develop the notion of reality to use the term "God" (except in the case of Brahma who is a personal deity). Rather, the Buddhist tradition developed in reaction to the misunderstandings, confusion, and even oppression of the masses spread by the priests in the name of God or Brahma. The Buddha was not concerned with denying the reality of the Divine, the Buddha was concerned with liberating people from fear based and superstitious views of Divinity so that they could directly experience the reality that people have labeled as God.

Buddhist scriptures, or sutras, present a far more refined and uplifting description of the divine reality which we awaken to once we are free of our finite, materialistic, and self-centered point of view. The Buddha describes God (he called him Brahma, since he had never heard the Germanic word "God" or the Jewish "YHWH"😉 as one who resides in the highest of the heavens and who is perfect in his love, compassion, joy, and equanimity. This God is one we can unite with if we develop those same qualities in ourselves. But even this is a limited conception of God according to Buddhism.

The experience of nirvana is spoken of as a state beyond birth and death, beyond any possible conception or description. It can not be spoken of in terms of anything that our finite minds can relate to. But it is the supreme reality that is beyond causes and conditions which we can awaken to even within this lifetime, though this awakening may be only the beginning of something even more unimaginable upon death as implied by the term parinirvana (complete nirvana). Nirvana is not a state of annihilation though it is selfless. It is spoken of in terms of being pure, blissful, eternal, and the basis of true selfhood - though even these terms are only used analogously - the truth being beyond even these. Nirvana is not a person, place, or thing but it is not nothingness either.

On some occasions the Buddha even spoke of nirvana as Brahma or God, but again only analogously. The Buddha did not want to directly identify the realization of nirvana with God realization because that term meant different things to different people depending upon their idea of God. So to prevent confusion, the Buddha spoke more in terms of what nirvana is not rather than in terms of what it is. He certainly did not want to identify it with a name like "God" which was already too loaded with all kind of misleading connotations. Just as importantly, the Brahmanist priests were using their scriptures and their alleged ability to mediate God's will to impose their power over others. The Buddha wanted to avoid this pitfall of someone presuming to be able to mediate the will of God, by avoiding such rhetoric entirely.

Originally posted by debbiejo
How do you know?? Can you prove this WITHOUT the Bible?

* i obviously can't prove it without the Bible, because it was the Bible that supplies the life, works and doctrine of Christ... and according to the Bible, Jesus is not a Buddhist...

* if you're not down with that, prove it otherwise... 😉

Originally posted by debbiejo
The Roman Catholic church as EVERYBODY ELSE knows manipulated the scriptures and what was to be taught.

* the Scriptures was not manipulated as what you think it was, the RC in those days, only chose what books should be included in the Canon of Scriptures, that's why the Gnostics were left behind... but the Apochrypha was included even if it was worldly-known spurious...

* let me tell you this, if the Bible was manipulated by the RC, why is it that the RC was in direct contrary with the doctrines in the Bible? 😕

* firstly, do you believe in the apostleship of Saint Paul and Saint Peter? if so, you should also believe in their written epistles... if not, it's a different story... 😉

Originally posted by mahasattva
Let us see if there is any justification for these claims. If Jesus really was God it is very strange that he never said so. There is not one place in the whole of the Bible where Jesus simply and unambiguously says, "I am God". Christians will object to this and say that Jesus often called himself or was called the Son of God.

* so your question is, if Christ is a God, why didn't He said so? because it is not Christ's mission to bear witness for Himself...

"And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ."
John 17:3

* Christ's mission is to bear witness for the Father... but who will bear witness for Christ?

"But the witness which I have is greater than that of John; for the works which the Father hath given me to accomplish, the very works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
And the Father that sent me, he hath borne witness of me . Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form.
John 5:36-37

* the Father will bear witness for Christ... so, what did the Father called Christ? did the Father called Christ a God? or a human?

"But of the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
Hebrews 1:8

* the Father called Christ, "O God"... Christ is a God...

Originally posted by mahasattva
However, the Bible clearly shows that any person who was good and had faith qualified to be called a Son of God. For example, Jesus called Adam a son of God (Lk 3:38).

"And Jesus himself, when he began to teach, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli...
... the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."
Luke 3:23, 38

* according to the verse you gave, Jesus did NOT called Adam the son of God... it was the writer, Saint Luke, who wrote the genealogy of Christ...

Originally posted by mahasattva
It will happen that in the very place where it was said of them "you are not my people" they will be called "sons of the living God" (Rom 9:26).
Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your father in heaven (Matt 5:44-45).

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (Gal 3:26).

You are God's; you are all sons of the most high (Ps 82:6).

* the term, "sons of God", is a general term... in other translations, the word, "sons" also meant "children"...

"And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God."
The Romans 9:26

"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."
Matthew 5:45

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."
Galatians 3:26

"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."
Psalms 82:6

* but the term, "The Son of God" was only intended for Christ...

"For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? and again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son?"
Hebrews 1:5

* no angel was called "The Son of God"... although the angels are often called the "the sons of God" or "the children of God", only Christ was called "The Son of God"... and He really is "The Only Begotten Son of God"...

"He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 1:18

* and Christ even told them that He really is The Son of God...

"Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and finding him, he said, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
He answered and said, And who is he, Lord, that I may believe on him?
Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and he it is that speaketh with thee."
John 9:35-37

* see?

Originally posted by mahasattva
Jesus is called God's 'only begotten son' but even this is not unique. In the Psalms God says to King David, "You are my son, today I have begotten you" (Ps 2:7) In fact, Jesus said distinctly that when he called himself a son of God, he did not mean he was God or related to God in a literal sense. When the Jewish priests criticized him for claiming to be equal with God, Jesus said:

Is it not written in your law, "I have said you are gods"? If he called them "gods" to whom the word of God came - and the Scripture cannot be broken what about one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? (Jn 10:34-36).

* it was later revealed by the wisdom of God given to Saint Paul that it was Christ, the Father was addressing as His Begotten Son, and not David...

"That God hath fulfilled the same unto our children, in that he raised up Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."
The Acts 13:33

"For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? and again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son?"
Hebrews 1:5

* there is a context within the verses John 10:34-35 that you gave, my friend...

* by proclaiming Himself as The Son of God, the Jews understood that it also meant that Jesus is also a God like the Father...

"I and the Father are one."
John 10:30

* and in this statement, Christ really did said that He is a God, only indirectly... but the Jews understood Him and started to persecute Him...

"The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
John 10:33

* the Jews believe that Christ was only a mere human just like everyone else... Christians like Saint Paul and Saint Peter believe that Christ was not a human but a God... now, which side are you on? the Jews? or the apostles?

* and to prove that being The Son of God means that Christ is also a God according to the belief of the Jews...

"For this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God."
John 5:18

* and this were the grounds why Jesus was crucified...

Originally posted by mahasattva
In the Bible Jesus is called the Son of Man more than 80 times. Yet the Bible also tells us that in the eyes of God the Son of Man is nothing more than a worm (Job, 25:6). How can Christians claim that the Son of Man is God when the Bible itself says that the Son of Man is nothing more than a worm?

* there is a spiritual sense on that "Worm" you're talking about, my friend... it's not a literal worm...

"But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by men and despised by the people."
Psalms 22:6

* take note that the worm is NOT a human... so, who is this "Worm" that was scorned by men and despised by people? let us read the proceeding verses...

"Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.
They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing."
Psalms 22:16, 18

* it was revealed to be Christ...

Originally posted by mahasattva
Christians will then insist that Jesus was called the Messiah, but again it was not unusual to be called a Messiah. The Hebrew word messiah of which the Greek translation is christos simply means 'anointed one', and refers to anyone sent by God to help the people of Israel. Even a non-Jew could be and sometimes was called a Messiah. The Bible even calls the pagan Persian King Cyrus a Messiah because he let God's people return to their homeland (Is 45:1).

* not all persons anointed or chosen are called "The Messiah"... the term, "messiah" means "The Anointed One" or "The Chosen One", with the definite article "the"...

Originally posted by mahasattva
So just because Jesus was called the Messiah does not prove he was God.

* who anointed Christ?

"Even Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."
The Acts 10:38

* the Father anointed Christ... what did the Father called Christ again?

"But of the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."
Hebrews 1:8-9

* the Father, who anointed Christ, called Christ a God...

Originally posted by mahasattva
In fact, throughout the Bible Jesus goes out of his way to make it clear that he was not God. When someone called Jesus 'good teacher' he said:
Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone (Lk 18:19).
Now if Jesus was God why would he deny that he was good?

* again, Christ's mission is not to bear witness for Himeslf but for the Father...

"The attitude you should have is the one that Christ Jesus had:
He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God."
Philippians 2:6

* see?

Originally posted by mahasattva
We are told that Jesus prayed, but if he was God why would he need to pray to himself?

"Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God."
John 20:17

* our Father is also Christ's Father and our God is also Christ's God... remember: Christ, The Son of God, is a God, but He is NOT God... the Father IS God...

Originally posted by mahasattva
And when Jesus prayed, he said to God, "not my will but yours" (Lk 22:42). Quite clearly Jesus is making a distinction between God's will and his own.

"Jesus therefore, knowing all the things that were coming upon him, went forth, and saith unto them, Whom seek ye?"
John 18:4

* Jesus knows what will happen to Him... Jesus knows He would be killed... however...

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory."
I Timothy 3:16

* Christ was a God, The Word, a spirit in the beginning... but He was manifested in human flesh... and because He was manifested in human flesh, He would be able to be experience human feelings and culture... He could grow tired and weary, He was circumcised, He could feel thirst for water, He could feel hunger for food, and He could feel fear of death...

"Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
And there appeared unto him an angel from heaven, strengthening him."
Luke 22:43

* i understand Jesus' feelings in this scenario...

Originally posted by mahasattva
Jesus says that no one has even seen God (Jn 1:18), meaning that when people saw him they were not seeing God. Again Jesus says he can do nothing without God.

* then, let us first identify some characteristics of the Father...

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;"
Colossians 1:15

* the Father is a spirit and is invisible... but why can the people saw Christ? it is not because Christ is not a God, but because He was manifested in the flesh... so Christ was visible and tangible when He was here on earth...

* let us look at another side of John 1:18...

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 1:18

* Christ had seen the Father... but no human had seen the Father at ANY time... will any human be able to see the Father in the future?

"Who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen."
I Timothy 6:16

* nope... no human could see the Father... why?

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live."
Exodus 33:20

* humans shall not see the Father and live... who else, besides Christ, can see the Father?

"See that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven."
Matthew 18:10

* now, what are the similarity of Christ and the angels for Them to be able to see the Father?

"But of which of the angels hath he said at any time, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet?
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to do service for the sake of them that shall inherit salvation?"
Hebrews 1:13-14

* Christ, in the beginning, and the angels are spirits, not humans...

Originally posted by mahasattva
If Jesus was God he could do anything he wanted to do, and in these passages and dozens of others he is making it as clear as crystal that he is one thing and God another. Jesus said, "The Father is greater than I" (Jn 14:28) making it clear that he is not as great as God and therefore different from God.

* but Christ is not God... Christ is a God but not God... and He can do anything He wants to do with the will of the Father... for example:

"But unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."
I Corinthians 1:24

* Christ is the wisdom of God... as The Wisdom of God, what did Christ do?

"Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send unto them prophets and apostles; and some of them they shall kill and persecute;"
Luke 11:49

* is it really Christ who sent the prophets? yes! not only that, the spirit of Christ even taught the prophets...

"Concerning which salvation the prophets sought and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
Searching what time or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did point unto, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that should follow them."
I Peter 1:10-11

* and of course, it was also Christ who elected the apostles... all Christ did, but with the will of the Father...

Originally posted by mahasattva
Jesus said that at the end of the world he would be sitting at the right hand of God to judge the world (Lk 22:69). If Jesus and God are the same being, how is this possible? Quite clearly the two are separate and different.

* i didn't say Christ is God... i said, Christ is a God...

Originally posted by mahasattva
And again David is described as sitting on the right hand of God, so to do this one does not have be a god (Ps 110:1).

* let us read Psalms 110:1...

"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
Psalms 110:1

* the verse does NOT say that it was King David who was sitting on the right hand of God... this verse was also quoted by Christ, let us read His revelation...

"Saying, What think ye of the Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
He saith unto them, How then doth David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying,
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I put thine enemies underneath thy feet?
If David then calleth him Lord, how is he his son?"
Matthew 22:42-45

* according to Jesus Himself, King David calls Him and the Father both as "Lord"...

Originally posted by mahasattva
We are told that Jesus stands between God and man.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ (1 Tim 2:5).

This passage clearly states that Jesus is not God, for if he was, how could he stand' between God and men?

It also specifically calls Jesus a man (see also Acts l7:3 -31).

* let us read the preceding verses...

"I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men;"
I Timothy 2:1
The American Standard Version

"First of all, I ask you to pray for everyone. Ask God to help and bless them all, and tell God how thankful you are for each of them."
I Timothy 2:1
Contemporary English Version

* Christians are also mediators between the Father and the people... and the verse I Timothy 2:5, ends with a comma, so let us read the proceeding verse...

"For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus,
who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times;"
I Timothy 2:5-6

* what did Christ gave as a ransom? as a sacrifice? as an offering?

"By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
Hebrews 10:10

* the "man Christ Jesus" in I Timothy 2:5 is the body of Christ offered for all...

Originally posted by mahasattva
In the Gospels of Matthew and Luke (Matt 1:16, Lk 3:23) we are given the* name of Jesus' father, his father's father, and so on, back through many generations. if God was really Jesus' father, why does the Bible list all Jesus' ancestors on his father's side?

* because Christ manifested in the flesh...

"Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had, and took the nature of a servant. He became like a human being and appeared in human likeness.
He was humble and walked the path of obedience all the way to death--- his death on the cross."
Philippians 2:7-8

* Christ took the nature of a servant and appeared in human likeness... Christ only became like a human but He really is a God... He is NOT God but He is a God...

Originally posted by mahasattva
Christians are forever claiming that Jesus is God and at the same time that he is the son of God. But how is this possible? How can I father be his own son and himself all at the same time?

* true Christians, stated in the Bible, never claimed that Christ is God but Christ is a God... the offspring of an animal is an animal, the offspring of a human is a human, the offspring of God is also a God...

Originally posted by mahasattva
And to make matters more confused, the Holy Spirit is brought in and we are asked to believe that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are different and yet the same.

* yes, The Father, The Christ and The Holy Spirit are different entities especially described in Matthew 3:16-17 that The Three were also in three separate places all in that one scenario...

* but you also cannot deny that the Three are joined as The Godhead...

"Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:"
Matthew 28:19

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."
II Corinthians 13:14

* see? 😉

Well done peejayd.
In addition, Christ is God in fulfillment of the prophecies that he claimed to fulfill.
"And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God in flesh.

Originally posted by peejayd
* but Christ is not God... Christ is a God but not God... and He can do anything He wants to do with the will of the Father... for example:

* i didn't say Christ is God... i said, Christ is a God...

John 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made .

Jesus Christ is God, not a God. You have not rightly divided the Word of God on this matter Peejayd.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory .

This verse is a reference to Jesus the Son of God. Son of God denotes that Jesus is divine (i.e., God). Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus called a God.

Isaiah 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel .

Jesus is called Immanuel figuratively but why? Well, Immanuel means God with us. Jesus is God in the flesh (i.e., incarnate or in human form).

Exodus 3:13-14
13 Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?” 14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

Just prior to Moses embarking on his mission from God (to demand the emancipation of the Israelites from Pharaoh's dominion) he had a conversation with God. Moses wanted to know God's Name so that he could inform Pharaoh Who sent him. God the Father told Moses that His Name is "I AM." This is a very important designation. Remember this.

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Jesus Christ identifies Himself with the exact same designation as the Father. I AM is a Name that denotes God's eternal, self-existence. Jesus is God not a god.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

Yes, God is one but He is manifested (i.e., expressed or revealed) as The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

John 14:7
“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

Jesus and the Father are one God, but not one divine Person. So if you have seen Jesus (not His physical body but His actions, words, deeds, character traits, etc.) then you have seen the Father. Jesus is the express image of God the Father. The Father and the Son are on the same page in thought, will, deed, agenda, purpose, power, intellect, etc.

Hebrews 1:3
who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person , and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

John 14:6-8
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

You want to know God then look at Jesus Christ. Jesus is God not a god.

Isaiah 9:6-7
6 For unto us a Child is born ,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Did you catch that?

Jesus the Son of God aka., God manifested in the flesh aka., the Word made flesh is referred to as "Mighty God, Everlasting Father."

Isn't this blasphemy?

Not at all. Isaiah the prophet was inspired by the Spirit of God (the Third Person of the Godhead, Jesus is the Second, the Father is the First) when he spoke this prophesy 700 years before it came to pass. So we can safely conclude that it was God who called Jesus "Mighty God, Everlasting Father."

Matthew 2:2
2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

These men traveled for approximately two years to find and worship the infant Jesus. I don't know about you but I wouldn't travel a fraction of an inch to worship anyone. Yet these men subjected themselves to the rigors of traveling (probably on camel) across desert and treacherous terrain. They probably had to contend with wild animals and inclement weather and other discomforts.

All for what?

They were coming to worship God in the flesh, Jesus the Christ.

Mark 2:7
“Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Luke 5:21
And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Luke 5:24
But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins...."

Luke 7:49
And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

Friends, only God has the authority to forgive sins and Jesus did so. Folks, Jesus is God not a god. Jesus proved that He is God: Jesus even forgave sins while He was on earth.

Matthew 28:9
9 And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, “Rejoice!” So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.

Jesus receives worship. Under the Law of Moses (which was the Supreme Law of the Land for the Israelites, similar to our U.S. Constitution) the Jews were forbidden from worshipping any other god but the One, True, God.

Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he [the angel] said to me [John], “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Revelation 22:8-9
Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”

In the Book of Revelation John, one of Jesus' closest disciples and apostles was so overcome with the revelation that he received from the angel that he fell down at his (the angel's) feet to worship him on more than one occasion. But the angel immediately and sternly warned and forbid John from doing thus both times. The angel told the apostle John to worship God

Luke 24:52
And they worshiped Him [Jesus], and returned to Jerusalem with great joy,

John 9:35-38
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?” 36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”
37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.”
38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him.

Notice that unlike the angel Jesus never refrains from receiving worship. On every occasion where someone worshipped Jesus, Jesus did not warn them, or try to stop them. Jesus did not forbid anyone from worshipping Him and worship belongs only to God. Friends, Jesus is God and not a god.

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

The fact that Jesus is the Son of God does not imply that He is less than or inferior to the Father. Son of God means that Jesus is equal to the Father in every way. The Jews knew this that is why they sought all the more to kill Jesus. Son of God means that Jesus is God not a god.

Colossians 1:16
For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

God is the Creator correct? Well, this verse is a reference to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Creator and Jesus Christ is God.

John 10:30
I and My Father are one .”

Jesus affirmed that He and His Father are one. What does Jesus mean? Jesus means that He and His Father constitute one "God" but not one divine Person.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
John 10:30
I and My Father are one .

Jesus affirmed that He and His Father are one. What does Jesus mean? Jesus means that He and His Father constitute one "God" but not one divine Person. [/B]

John 17:21-23
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Using your logic:

Jesus affirmed that He and His Father are one. What does Jesus mean? Jesus means that He and His Father constitute one "God" but not one divine Person.

Thus we see that through your logic man may become God in the same sense that Jesus is God, at least if John 10:30 is meant as your claim asserts.

Originally posted by peejayd
* but Christ is not God... Christ is a God but not God...

* i didn't say Christ is God... i said, Christ is a God...

John 14:1
“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me."

According to Jesus we are permitted to believe in Him just as we believe in the Father. The preposition "in" connotes and conveys something more than just mere mental assent. Jesus is saying that since we believe in (i.e., trust in, have faith in, and depend on) God the Father, that we should likewise trust in, have faith in, and depend on Him.

John 14:13
And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 14:14
If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

John 15:16
You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

John 16:23
“And in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you.
John 16:24
Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

John 16:26
In that day you will ask in My name , and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you;

The only thing that Jesus does not say for us to do is pray to Him. Jesus instructs us to pray to the Father in His Name (i.e., in Jesus Name) so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. . Remember the only Way to get to God the Father is through His Son Jesus. But even still Jesus says that whatever you ask in His Name, "that He will do...." In another place Jesus says that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. So there is congruity between what Jesus says He will do and what Jesus says that the Father will give us in the Name of Jesus. This congruence exists because Jesus is God not a god.

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Doubting Thomas as he is commonly referred called Jesus his Lord and God. Some people want to refer to Jesus as their Lord but not their God as well. But Jesus is both Lord and God and not a god.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Again, Jesus the Christ is both our great God and Savior. Jesus is God and not a god.

Philippians 2:5-6
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

Jesus walked the earth fully God and fully Man. Jesus did not consider it robbery to be equal with God because He is God and not a god. But He is God the Son and not God the Father per se.

Colossians 2:9
For in Him [i.e. Jesus Christ] dwells all the fullness of the Godhead [all that God is] bodily [i.e., in flesh or incarnate, or in physical, human form];

Jesus is God in human flesh and not a god.

Hebrews 1:6
But when He again brings the Firstborn into the world, He says:

“ Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

The term "firstborn" in some passages relative to Jesus connotes preeminence as is the case here. But the point I want you to see is that God the Father commands all of His angels to worship His Son Jesus in light of the fact the worship belongs only to God. So Jesus is God and not a god.

The apostle Peter

The apostle Peter, the only person other than Jesus who we have a record of in the Bible that walked on water, the number one apostle of Jesus (Jesus had three chief apostles/disciples: Peter, James, and John), a man who witnessed, first-hand, the miracles of Jesus, a man who walked with Jesus for three and one half years during Jesus' earthly ministry, a man who was with Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane, this man who cut off one the high priest's servant's ear when they tried to arrest Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane, this man who saw Jesus miraculously multiply a five loaves of bread and two small fish to feed upwards of 5,000 men (not including women and children), this man who saw Jesus transfigured (Jesus' face shone like the sun and His clothes became white as the light i.e., resplendent with the glory of God) as He conversed with Moses and Elijah on a high mountain, this man who witnessed Jesus expel demons out of people, this man who heard Jesus teachings, and watched Jesus compassionately heal people of any and all types of illnesses, sicknesses, and diseases, this man saw Jesus open blind eyes, unstop the deaf, and loose the tongue of the mute, this man saw Jesus go into the temple (where they were carrying on commerce), overturn tables (with money on them mind you), and make a whip of cords that He used to drive out the animals and probably people, this man (audibly heard) the voice of God the Father from Heaven say, "...This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” This man who followed Jesus after He was arrested, who was so terrified of losing his life that he denied Jesus three times, this man who saw His Lord crucified between two thieves, this man who saw His Lord die on the cross, this man who saw His Lord after He rose from the dead, this man who became bold as a lion after He saw Jesus raised from the dead, this man who became a powerful voice for Christianity after Jesus ascended back to Heaven, this man who began to perform mighty miracles (just like Jesus) by the Holy Spirit's power and the Name of Jesus, this man who along with the apostle John said to a man who was lame from his mother's womb, “Silver and gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk.” This man took him by the right hand and lifted him up, and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength. So he, leaping up, stood and walked and entered the temple with them—walking, leaping, and praising God. And all the people saw him walking and praising God. Then they knew that it was he who sat begging alms at the Beautiful Gate of the temple; and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him...And seeing the man who had been healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it...What shall we do to these men? For, indeed, that a notable miracle has been done through them is evident to all who dwell in Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it...For the man was over forty years old on whom this miracle of healing had been performed."
This man Peter who Jesus (after His resurrection) said these words to:

"Most assuredly, I say to you, when you were younger, you girded yourself and walked where you wished; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish.” 19 This He spoke, signifying by what death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, “Follow Me.”

This man Peter who requested to be crucifed upside down because he felt that he was not worthy to die in the same manner as His Lord Jesus,

this man...

this man Peter said this about Jesus Christ:

2 Peter 1
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ :

Peter, Jesus' leading apostle/disciple who saw, experienced first-hand, and witnessed all of this refers to Jesus as our God and Savior.

Let me ask you something folks: were you there to see, experience first-hand, and witness all of these things that Jesus said and did? No? Me neither. But Peter was and did and he calls Jesus God.

Jesus is God and not a god.

Originally posted by peejayd
* but Christ is not God... Christ is a God but not God...

* i didn't say Christ is God... i said, Christ is a God...

John 14:28
You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.

But what about this Scripture passage where Jesus says that His Father is greater than Himself, JesusIsAlive?

What about it?

Jesus is simply giving His Father the glory as it were. Jesus does this in another instance as well. Here it is:

Matthew 19:15-17
15 And He laid His hands on them and departed from there.
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Is Jesus saying that God the Father is the only good Person in the universe?

No, but what Jesus is doing is giving His Father the glory for being good. Jesus is as good as God the Father. Remember: Jesus never sinned. Read:

Acts 10:38
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

1 Peter 2:21-22
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:

22 “ Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;

Jesus is simply giving His Father the glory because many of the same attributes that are revealed of the Father are ascribed to the Son Jesus as well.

The Lord Jesus even goes on to say that in the end...the final analysis...when every kingdom in the universe is eradicated (except God's Kingdom of course)...when all things are made subject to Himself, then He (Jesus) will also be subject to the Father who put all things under Jesus, that God (the Father) may be all in all (i.e., preeminent in everything)

Actually the Father God is already preeminent in all things but as long as the devil and his angels are loose and humanity is in rebellion, God's Sovereignty is not fully manifested. One day God's will will be done on earth as it is being done in Heaven. But that day has not come yet. Just look at the world under satan's control with sinful humanity under him: it is full of death, corruption, hate, racism, poverty, sickness and disease, natural disasters and it is only getting worse.

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God manifested in Three divine Persons that constitute the "Godhead."

The Glory of Jesus Christ Our Great God and Savior

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty .”

Almighty?

I thought God the Father was the Almighty?

Jesus is God and not a god.

9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands , 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

Jesus Christ is God and not a god.

I close with the words of the Lord Jesus Himself:

Mark 14:60-64
And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, saying, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” But He kept silent and answered nothing.

Notice that the Lord Jesus did not answer any of the petty questions.

Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?”
Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

oooo! No, He didn't. No Jesus didn't just say that He was the Christ the SON OF THE BLESSED. The high priest, the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes were present when those words came out of Jesus mouth. They KNEW exactly what Jesus was saying. Well, just what was Jesus saying? First let's look at the high priest's reaction to what Jesus said.

Mark 14:63-64
Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “What further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy! What do you think?”
And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death.

The high priest called Jesus affirmation of being the Christ (Anointed One), the Son of the Blessed (God) blasphemy. Now why would they accuse Jesus of such a serious charge? By Jesus Christ affirming that He is the Christ (i.e. Anointed One), the Son of God He is saying that He and God the Father are equal and one. The high priest knew this that is why he (the high priest) tore his own clothes then said that what Jesus had said was blasphemy.

Matthew's account of what took place as Jesus stood before the high priest.

Matthew 26:57-66
57 And those who had laid hold of Jesus led Him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled. 58 But Peter followed Him at a distance to the high priest’s courtyard. And he went in and sat with the servants to see the end.
59 Now the chief priests, the elders, and all the council sought false testimony against Jesus to put Him to death, 60 but found none. Even though many false witnesses came forward, they found none. But at last two false witnesses came forward 61 and said, “This fellow said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and to build it in three days.’”
62 And the high priest arose and said to Him, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” 63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!” 64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said . Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
65 Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy! 66 What do you think?”

"we have a record of in the Bible" You mean the bible states it. The bible is not record book. There is a very good chance that Jesus and Peter never walked on water. It is a higher probability that the "record" was made up to impress would be converts.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]John 14:28
You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.

But what about this Scripture passage where Jesus says that His Father is greater than Himself, JesusIsAlive?

What about it?

Jesus is simply giving His Father the glory as it were. Jesus does this in another instance as well. Here it is:

Matthew 19:15-17
15 And He laid His hands on them and departed from there.
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Is Jesus saying that God the Father is the only good Person in the universe?

No, but what Jesus is doing is giving His Father the glory for being good. Jesus is as good as God the Father. Remember: Jesus never sinned. Read:

Acts 10:38
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

1 Peter 2:21-22
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:

22 “ Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;

Jesus is simply giving His Father the glory because many of the same attributes that are revealed of the Father are ascribed to the Son Jesus as well.

The Lord Jesus even goes on to say that in the end...the final analysis...when every kingdom in the universe is eradicated (except God's Kingdom of course)...when all things are made subject to Himself, then He (Jesus) will also be subject to the Father who put all things under Jesus, that God (the Father) may be all in all (i.e., preeminent in everything)

Actually the Father God is already preeminent in all things but as long as the devil and his angels are loose and humanity is in rebellion, God's Sovereignty is not fully manifested. One day God's will will be done on earth as it is being done in Heaven. But that day has not come yet. Just look at the world under satan's control with sinful humanity under him: it is full of death, corruption, hate, racism, poverty, sickness and disease, natural disasters and it is only getting worse.

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God manifested in Three divine Persons that constitute the "Godhead."

The Glory of Jesus Christ Our Great God and Savior

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Almighty?

I thought God the Father was the Almighty?

Jesus is God and not a god.

9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands , 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

Jesus Christ is God and not a god.

I close with the words of the Lord Jesus Himself:

Mark 14:60-64
And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, saying, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” But He kept silent and answered nothing.

Notice that the Lord Jesus did not answer any of the petty questions.

Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?”
Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

oooo! No, He didn't. No Jesus didn't just say that He was the Christ the SON OF THE BLESSED. The high priest, the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes were present when those words came out of Jesus mouth. They KNEW exactly what Jesus was saying. Well, just what was Jesus saying? First let's look at the high priest's reaction to what Jesus said.

Mark 14:63-64
Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “What further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy! What do you think?”
And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death.

The high priest called Jesus affirmation of being the Christ (Anointed One), the Son of the Blessed (God) blasphemy. Now why would they accuse Jesus of such a serious charge? By Jesus Christ affirming that He is the Christ (i.e. Anointed One), the Son of God He is saying that He and God the Father are equal and one. The high priest knew this that is why he (the high priest) tore his own clothes then said that what Jesus had said was blasphemy.

Matthew's account of what took place as Jesus stood before the high priest.

Matthew 26:57-66
57 And those who had laid hold of Jesus led Him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled. 58 But Peter followed Him at a distance to the high priest’s courtyard. And he went in and sat with the servants to see the end.
59 Now the chief priests, the elders, and all the council sought false testimony against Jesus to put Him to death, 60 but found none. Even though many false witnesses came forward, they found none. But at last two false witnesses came forward 61 and said, “This fellow said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and to build it in three days.’”
62 And the high priest arose and said to Him, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” 63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!” 64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said . Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
65 Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy! 66 What do you think?” [/B]

I forgot to give the Book for these verses. It is the Book of Revelation chapter 1.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty .”

Almighty?

I thought God the Father was the Almighty?

Jesus is God and not a god.

9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

Jesus Christ is God and not a god.

Jesus was a man.

Originally posted by Regret
Using your logic:

Jesus affirmed that He and His Father are one. What does Jesus mean? Jesus means that He and His Father constitute one "God" but not one divine Person.

Thus we see that through your logic man may become God in the same sense that Jesus is God, at least if John 10:30 is meant as your claim asserts.

Negative. God is God man is man. That is new age thinking. Pay attention to what I said. I asked the rhetorical question, "...What does Jesus mean? Then I said, "Jesus means...." In other words Jesus means something totally different in this verse than He does in John 17:11, 21, and 22. Jesus says that He and His Father are one in John 10:30 right after saying that no one is able to snatch believers in Him out of His Father's hand. In essence Jesus is saying that no one is able to take them out His hand nor out of the Father's because He and His Father are one.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Negative. God is God man is man. That is new age thinking. Pay attention to what I said. I asked the rhetorical question, "...What does Jesus mean? Then I said, "Jesus means...." In other words Jesus means something totally different in this verse than He does in John 17:11, 21, and 22. Jesus says that He and His Father are one in John 10:30 right after saying that no one is able to snatch believers in Him out of His Father's hand. In essence Jesus is saying that no one is able to take them out His hand nor out of the Father's because He and His Father are one.

yawn Rubbish !

Kali the Goddess of Death and Destruction shall meet you when you die, and transfer your soul into that of a cockroach !

SO SAYS THE VEDAS BOOKS OF WISDOM !

Blessed Be the Goddess..... 🙂

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
yawn [b]Rubbish !

Kali the Goddess of Death and Destruction shall meet you when you die, and transfer your soul into that of a cockroach !

SO SAYS THE VEDAS BOOKS OF WISDOM !

Blessed Be the Goddess..... 🙂 [/B]

I adhere to the path of Ganesh. Not as powerful perhaps, but more in touch with me.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Negative. God is God man is man. That is new age thinking. Pay attention to what I said. I asked the rhetorical question, "...What does Jesus mean? Then I said, "Jesus means...." In other words Jesus means something totally different in this verse than He does in John 17:11, 21, and 22. Jesus says that He and His Father are one in John 10:30 right after saying that no one is able to snatch believers in Him out of His Father's hand. In essence Jesus is saying that no one is able to take them out His hand nor out of the Father's because He and His Father are one.

I am sorry JIA, but God, given trinitarian interpretation of the Bible, is a liar.

Bible reference:

Matthew 26:39, 42, 53
39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

John 14:16, 28, 31
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

Matthew 3:16-17
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 17:5
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

John 20: 17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Given these references, Jesus is a liar if he is the Father, as you claim.

He lied because he stated that he went to God, impossible if he was God, he can't go to himself. He called himself his son, lie by deception if he and God are the same person. Christ begs to not do what the Father asks, if he and the father are one person, they would have the same stance on the question.

Regardless of other verses you may quote stating Jesus is the Father, if the trinitarian concept is true, he lied in these verses. If he lied he is not God. If he is not God then trinitarian concept is false, as well as any Christian belief based on the concept. I believe Christ is God. I do not believe he lied. Given this Christ is a god, but is not the same person as the Father.

Sorry, but a lie through deception is what you describe, and there is no changing that fact, and the Bible states that God will not lie.

Originally posted by Regret
I am sorry JIA, but God, given trinitarian interpretation of the Bible, is a liar.

Bible reference:

Matthew 26:39, 42, 53
39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

John 14:16, 28, 31
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

Matthew 3:16-17
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 17:5
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

John 20: 17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Given these references, Jesus is a liar if he is the Father, as you claim.

He lied because he stated that he went to God, impossible if he was God, he can't go to himself. He called himself his son, lie by deception if he and God are the same person. Christ begs to not do what the Father asks, if he and the father are one person, they would have the same stance on the question.

Regardless of other verses you may quote stating Jesus is the Father, if the trinitarian concept is true, he lied in these verses. If he lied he is not God. If he is not God then trinitarian concept is false, as well as any Christian belief based on the concept. I believe Christ is God. I do not believe he lied. Given this Christ is a god, but is not the same person as the Father.

Sorry, but a lie through deception is what you describe, and there is no changing that fact, and the Bible states that God will not lie.

Show me where I said that Jesus is the Father. I said that Jesus and the Father are one. I furnished Scriptures that allude to Jesus and the Father's oneness but not their lack of individuality. Go back and read the posts entitled, "Jesus is God not a god" Part 1, 2, and 3. I have endeavored to show that Jesus is not a god. I surmise that what is throwing you off is the fact that I state that Jesus is God. I don't mean that Jesus is God the Father. Again go back and re-read my posts. The word "God" at times is used to refer to just the Father. Sometimes the term refers to the Son or the Holy Spirit individually. But the word "God" is singular (depending on the context) and can mean Father, Son or Holy Spirit. Look at the context to know Who or which One that it refers to. For example in the Book of Acts chapter 5 verse 3 Peters tells Ananias that he has lied to the Holy Spirit then in the very next verse Peter says that he (Ananias) has not lied to men but to God. Can you see what I mean now? The word "God" is singular and can refer to either Father, Son, or Holy Spirit because each One is God but they are God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit respectively. Furthermore, I believe that whenever I say that Jesus is God and not a god here is what you hear: "Jesus is the Father God." But that is not what I am teaching. I am teaching that Jesus is God (i.e., in and among the Three Who constitute the Godhead, Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Jesus confessed to being the Christ, the Son of the Blessed. The high priest, the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes knew what Jesus meant: that He and God--the Father--are equal. This is what drove the high priest into a rage. How dare Jesus affirm equality with God--they thought Jesus was just an ordinary Joe, Who managed to amass a following. But there Jesus stood before them declaring equality with God. That was the last straw. Jesus was condemned to die. He had to die for what He said because to them Jesus was speaking pure, unmitigated blasphemy. Folks, either Jesus is a liar, lunatic, or...He is Who He said that He is: the Son of God Who is equal with God--the Father. I think everytime that I say God I need to either say God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit. Because almost by default the term "God" refers to the Father. I think that is what tripped you up Regret. Lastly, I have already presented ample Scriptures where Jesus is called God. I just gave you one where the Holy Spirit is called God. Those Scriptures support my affirmation that Jesus is God--God the Son.

Now, there are designations (appelations, names, titles), if you would throughout the Bible that give the impression that Jesus is the Father such as in Isaiah 9:6-7 where Jesus is called "everlasting Father." But don't let my use of these verses discommode you. Read my lips (well in this case my words): Jesus is not the Father but Jesus is God. Did you get that? God doesn't mean that Jesus is the Father it just means that He too is among the Godhead.

Whew! I hope this justifies me and explains my position which I base on the Word of God.

The bible is not the word of God. The bible is the word of man. Now, if the bible is the word of god then man is god.

Originally posted by Regret
I am sorry JIA, but God, given trinitarian interpretation of the Bible, is a liar.

Bible reference:

Matthew 26:39, 42, 53
39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

John 14:16, 28, 31
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

Matthew 3:16-17
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 17:5
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

John 20: 17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Given these references, Jesus is a liar if he is the Father, as you claim.

He lied because he stated that he went to God, impossible if he was God, he can't go to himself. He called himself his son, lie by deception if he and God are the same person. Christ begs to not do what the Father asks, if he and the father are one person, they would have the same stance on the question.

Regardless of other verses you may quote stating Jesus is the Father, if the trinitarian concept is true, he lied in these verses. If he lied he is not God. If he is not God then trinitarian concept is false, as well as any Christian belief based on the concept. I believe Christ is God. I do not believe he lied. Given this Christ is a god, but is not the same person as the Father.

Sorry, but a lie through deception is what you describe, and there is no changing that fact, and the Bible states that God will not lie.

Regret did you see this post?

Re: Final Invitation to Heaven, sincerely Jesus Christ of Nazareth

There are a number of Scripture verses that seem or appear at first glance without careful study to indicate that Jesus is not God. For example,

John 17:3
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent .

This verse is used invariably by Jehovah's Witnesses to make Jesus subordinate to the Father and to un-deify Him. Jesus is not saying that He Himself is not God, He is merely stating for time immemorial that God (Whom He is praying to) is the One True God as opposed to all of the false gods out there. Folks there are a plethora of Scripture verses where the Holy Spirit inspired writers referred to Jesus as God. Examine the entire Word of God before coming to a definitive conclusion about something.