How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

These men traveled for approximately two years to find and worship the infant Jesus. I don't know about you but I wouldn't travel a fraction of an inch to worship anyone. Yet these men subjected themselves to the rigors of traveling (probably on camel) across desert and treacherous terrain. They probably had to contend with wild animals and inclement weather and other discomforts.

All for what?

They were coming to worship God in the flesh, Jesus the Christ.

Correction: God is the only one that I will travel to worship.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Regret did you see this post?

[B]Re: Final Invitation to Heaven, sincerely Jesus Christ of Nazareth

There are a number of Scripture verses that seem or appear at first glance without careful study to indicate that Jesus is not God. For example,

John 17:3
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent .

This verse is used invariably by Jehovah's Witnesses to make Jesus subordinate to the Father and to un-deify Him. Jesus is not saying that He Himself is not God, He is merely stating for time immemorial that God (Whom He is praying to) is the One True God as opposed to all of the false gods out there. Folks there are a plethora of Scripture verses where the Holy Spirit inspired writers referred to Jesus as God. Examine the entire Word of God before coming to a definitive conclusion about something. [/B]

Trinitarian view has them being one entity that is God, any reference to a second entity (i.e. Jesus refering to God the Father separate from himself in the verse) is misleading, and thus a lie through deception, if Trinitarian view of singular entity is true. Whether or not there are verses refering to Jesus as God or not, the lie is there through deception. You cannot justify the lie by referring to these other verses.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Correction: God is the only one that I will travel to worship.

Thank goodness for that, I might have thought you'd travel to worship Baal or the Great Mother from Asia without the correction. 😄

Originally posted by Regret
Trinitarian view has them being one entity that is God, any reference to a second entity (i.e. Jesus refering to God the Father separate from himself in the verse) is misleading, and thus a lie through deception, if Trinitarian view of singular entity is true. Whether or not there are verses refering to Jesus as God or not, the lie is there through deception. You cannot justify the lie by referring to these other verses.

Did you fail to read this post too Regret? It is found in this thread:

How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Started by: scott_lefler

Show me where I said that Jesus is the Father. I said that Jesus and the Father are one. I furnished Scriptures that allude to Jesus and the Father's oneness but not their lack of individuality. Go back and read the posts entitled, "Jesus is God not a god" Part 1, 2, and 3. I have endeavored to show that Jesus is not a god. I surmise that what is throwing you off is the fact that I state that Jesus is God. I don't mean that Jesus is God the Father. Again go back and re-read my posts. The word "God" at times is used to refer to just the Father. Sometimes the term refers to the Son or the Holy Spirit individually. But the word "God" is singular (depending on the context) and can mean Father, Son or Holy Spirit. Look at the context to know Who or which One that it refers to. For example in the Book of Acts chapter 5 verse 3 Peters tells Ananias that he has lied to the Holy Spirit then in the very next verse Peter says that he (Ananias) has not lied to men but to God. Can you see what I mean now? The word "God" is singular and can refer to either Father, Son, or Holy Spirit because each One is God but they are God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit respectively. Furthermore, I believe that whenever I say that Jesus is God and not a god here is what you hear: "Jesus is the Father God." But that is not what I am teaching. I am teaching that Jesus is God (i.e., in and among the Three Who constitute the Godhead, Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Jesus confessed to being the Christ, the Son of the Blessed. The high priest, the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes knew what Jesus meant: that He and God--the Father--are equal. This is what drove the high priest into a rage. How dare Jesus affirm equality with God--they thought Jesus was just an ordinary Joe, Who managed to amass a following. But there Jesus stood before them declaring equality with God. That was the last straw. Jesus was condemned to die. He had to die for what He said because to them Jesus was speaking pure, unmitigated blasphemy. Folks, either Jesus is a liar, lunatic, or...He is Who He said that He is: the Son of God Who is equal with God--the Father. I think everytime that I say God I need to either say God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit. Because almost by default the term "God" refers to the Father. I think that is what tripped you up Regret. Lastly, I have already presented ample Scriptures where Jesus is called God. I just gave you one where the Holy Spirit is called God. Those Scriptures support my affirmation that Jesus is God--God the Son.

Now, there are designations (appelations, names, titles), if you would throughout the Bible that give the impression that Jesus is the Father such as in Isaiah 9:6-7 where Jesus is called "everlasting Father." But don't let my use of these verses discommode you. Read my lips (well in this case my words): Jesus is not the Father but Jesus is God. Did you get that? God doesn't mean that Jesus is the Father it just means that He too is among the Godhead.

Whew! I hope this justifies me and explains my position which I base on the Word of God.

Last edited by JesusIsAlive on Today at 08:55 PM

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The bible is not the word of God. The bible is the word of man. Now, if the bible is the word of god then man is god.

That makes a lot of sense. Historians have given perfectly plausible answers to these questions. The Bible is not a revelation from God, rather it is a compilation, a fairly untidy compilation, written by many different people, over many centuries, changed and edited from time to time, and containing legends, stories, genealogies, fables, sacred and secular writings. It is no more a revelation from God than are the Iliad or the Odyssey, the Ramayana or the Mahabharata, books which the Bible resembles quite closely.

Is it God created man or was it MAN created god? The answer is both religion and god are the invention of man.

Originally posted by mahasattva
That makes a lot of sense. Historians have given perfectly plausible answers to these questions. The Bible is not a revelation from God, rather it is a compilation, a fairly untidy compilation, written by many different people, over many centuries, changed and edited from time to time, and containing legends, stories, genealogies, fables, sacred and secular writings. It is no more a revelation from God than are the Iliad or the Odyssey, the Ramayana or the Mahabharata, books which the Bible resembles quite closely.

Is it God created man or was it MAN created god? The answer is both religion and god are the invention of man.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I am unsure how the Bible resembles the Iliad or the Odyssey.

Try to discern the theme of their stories. It is no different ideas. Furthermore, Jesus experience of God as Abba (the Aramaic word for "Daddy"😉 seems to describe a very devotional and intimate personal relationship to Brahma(Indian personal deity).

The Buddha describes God (he called him Brahma, since he had never heard the Germanic word "God" or the Jewish "YHWH"😉 as one who resides in the highest of the heavens and who is perfect in his love, compassion, joy, and equanimity. This God is one we can unite with if we develop those same qualities in ourselves. But even this is a limited conception of God according to Buddhism.

Brahma was the all-powerful creator deity of Brahmanism (the religion that today is known as Hinduism). In Buddhism, Brahma appears when the Buddha attains enlightenment and is the one who convinces him to share his profound realization out of compassion for all suffering beings. Brahma is then viewed as the protector of the Dharma (or Truth taught by the Buddha).

Other times however, Brahma is shown to be no better than the Greek Zeus, the chief of the gods but not the actual creator of the universe. Though he tries to make others think that he is omnipotent and omniscient, he is actually just as much a part of the process of life as all other beings and not its originator. However, these less than flattering representations of Brahma are probably directed more towards the pretenses and limited conceptions of Brahma held by the priests of Brahma in the time of the Buddha than they are towards Brahma as an actual being.

This leads to the next problem. The conception of Brahma or God taught by the Brahmanist priests was very similar to that taught by most Christians today. But when you really look at the image being taught, it is not much different from the mythological Zeus. God is reduced by unreflective piety to a mere being among beings, even if he is a "Supreme Being." As a being among beings, God is no longer a transcendent reality but just another being caught up in the process. This very primitive and even idolatrous conception of God is what the Buddha was poking fun of at the expense of the priests who claimed to be God's representatives on earth who could decide who will be saved and who will be damned.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I am unsure how the Bible resembles the Iliad or the Odyssey.

Well, certain of the old testament tales have the sense of the grand poetic masters of old. The actual narrative of the three is quite different, though they all deal with matters of myth and religion and concepts of what makes a good person - that is in the Greek ones the study of the classical "hero" and state and the consequence of wrong doing (since Troy was doomed by Paris and Helen insulting Zeus by pretty much storming all over manors and courtesy and dishonoring the home and all that.)

They are different, but that doesn't mean that the themes they examine are so different from one another.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

Matthew 2:2
2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

These men traveled for approximately two years to find and worship the infant Jesus. I don't know about you but I wouldn't travel a fraction of an inch to worship anyone. Yet these men subjected themselves to the rigors of traveling (probably on camel) across desert and treacherous terrain. They probably had to contend with wild animals and inclement weather and other discomforts.

All for what?

They were coming to worship God in the flesh, Jesus the Christ.

Correction: By the time the magi reached Jesus, Jesus was about two years old, not an infant. Wouldn't that have been cool to see little, two-year old Jesus? They say "terrible twos", but Jesus didn't have one of those phases. Jesus was a paragon of virtue even at two years old.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Correction: By the time the magi reached Jesus, Jesus was about two years old, not an infant. Wouldn't that have been cool to see little, two-year old Jesus? They say "terrible twos", but Jesus didn't have one of those phases. Jesus was a paragon of virtue even at two years old.

I heard that he killed a boy buy pushing him off a roof. He then resurrected the boy so everything was ok. 😆

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Did you fail to read this post too Regret? It is found in this thread:

How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Started by: scott_lefler

Show me where I said that Jesus is the Father. I said that Jesus and the Father are one. I furnished Scriptures that allude to Jesus and the Father's oneness but not their lack of individuality. Go back and read the posts entitled, "Jesus is God not a god" Part 1, 2, and 3. I have endeavored to show that Jesus is not a god. I surmise that what is throwing you off is the fact that I state that Jesus is God. I don't mean that Jesus is God the Father. Again go back and re-read my posts. The word "God" at times is used to refer to just the Father. Sometimes the term refers to the Son or the Holy Spirit individually. But the word "God" is singular (depending on the context) and can mean Father, Son or Holy Spirit. Look at the context to know Who or which One that it refers to. For example in the Book of Acts chapter 5 verse 3 Peters tells Ananias that he has lied to the Holy Spirit then in the very next verse Peter says that he (Ananias) has not lied to men but to God. Can you see what I mean now? The word "God" is singular and can refer to either Father, Son, or Holy Spirit because each One is God but they are God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit respectively. Furthermore, I believe that whenever I say that Jesus is God and not a god here is what you hear: "Jesus is the Father God." But that is not what I am teaching. I am teaching that Jesus is God (i.e., in and among the Three Who constitute the Godhead, Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Jesus confessed to being the Christ, the Son of the Blessed. The high priest, the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes knew what Jesus meant: that He and God--the Father--are equal. This is what drove the high priest into a rage. How dare Jesus affirm equality with God--they thought Jesus was just an ordinary Joe, Who managed to amass a following. But there Jesus stood before them declaring equality with God. That was the last straw. Jesus was condemned to die. He had to die for what He said because to them Jesus was speaking pure, unmitigated blasphemy. Folks, either Jesus is a liar, lunatic, or...He is Who He said that He is: the Son of God Who is equal with God--the Father. I think everytime that I say God I need to either say God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit. Because almost by default the term "God" refers to the Father. I think that is what tripped you up Regret. Lastly, I have already presented ample Scriptures where Jesus is called God. I just gave you one where the Holy Spirit is called God. Those Scriptures support my affirmation that Jesus is God--God the Son.

Now, there are designations (appelations, names, titles), if you would throughout the Bible that give the impression that Jesus is the Father such as in Isaiah 9:6-7 where Jesus is called "everlasting Father." But don't let my use of these verses discommode you. Read my lips (well in this case my words): Jesus is not the Father but Jesus is God. Did you get that? God doesn't mean that Jesus is the Father it just means that He too is among the Godhead.

Whew! I hope this justifies me and explains my position which I base on the Word of God.

Last edited by JesusIsAlive on Today at 08:55 PM

I read the post.

I believe you have stated that you believe in the Trinitarian doctrine as stated in the Nicene Creed. I paraphrase, but you have stated that you believe that there is one God that is manifested in three personages, all of which are the singular entity God. Jesus and the Father are separate presentations of the same God, differing in form and purpose, but the same singular entity God. If I am wrong here, correct me.

If this is true, then the Bible references I quoted are misleading and are thus lies regardless of other reference supposedly supporting Trinitarian belief. That is what I stated.

Your statement "Jesus is not the Father but Jesus is God. Did you get that? God doesn't mean that Jesus is the Father it just means that He too is among the Godhead." may mean that I am incorrect in your view of what the Godhead is, and if I am then my statements are in error as to your belief, and I am sorry if I am wrong and have posted as such. If your view is that the Godhead is three separate and distinct beings that are one in purpose, but not in substance, then I apologize for my remarks. If your view is not this, then I do not apologize, and I still hold my statements as correct in their intent as well as content.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]John 1:1-3

Jesus Christ is God, not a God. You have not rightly divided the Word of God on this matter Peejayd.

1 Timothy 3:16

This verse is a reference to Jesus the Son of God. Son of God denotes that Jesus is divine (i.e., God). Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus called a God.

Isaiah 7:14

Jesus is called Immanuel figuratively but why? Well, Immanuel means God with us. Jesus is God in the flesh (i.e., incarnate or in human form). [/B]

* there's no problem with the verses, my friend, only your interpretations... firstly, let us tackle John 1:1-3...

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made."
John 1:1-3

* you will defy the very logic of the statement... who was with God? if Christ is God? He is with Himself? what kind of logic is that?

* in I Timothy 3:16, yes, the word "God" there refers to Christ but that does not mean that Christ is the Father...

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
I Timothy 3:16

* now the first thing you should think of is, can the Father manifest Himself in the flesh? can He?

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom can be no variation, neither shadow that is cast by turning."
James 1:17

"Before the mountains were made, or the earth and the world was formed; from eternity and to eternity thou art God."
Psalms 90:2

* the Father cannot change, He is God from eternity to eternity... so, the "God" who manifested in the flesh is Christ and NOT the Father...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Exodus 3:13-14

Just prior to Moses embarking on his mission from God (to demand the emancipation of the Israelites from Pharaoh's dominion) he had a conversation with God. Moses wanted to know God's Name so that he could inform Pharaoh Who sent him. God the Father told Moses that His Name is "I AM." This is a very important designation. Remember this.

John 8:58

Jesus Christ identifies Himself with the exact same designation as the Father. I AM is a Name that denotes God's eternal, self-existence. Jesus is God not a god. [/B]

* that's not what Christ tried to imply on John 8:58... let us read the context of the verse...

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad.
The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"
John 8:56-57

* that is the question: "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?", so what is the reply of Christ?

"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am."
John 8:58

* Jesus countered, before Abraham was born, Christ was already in existence, Christ exists before Abraham... that was Christ's answer... and to be perfectly blunt, let us read other translation to support my statement...

"Jesus answered, "The truth is, I existed before Abraham was even born!"
John 8:58
New Living Translation

* Christ never said that He is the "I am", His statement says He existed even before Abraham was born...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]1 Corinthians 8:6

Yes, God is one but He is manifested (i.e., expressed or revealed) as The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. [/B]

* your statement was not in accord with I Corinthians 8:6...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]John 14:7

Jesus and the Father are one God, but not one divine Person. So if you have seen Jesus (not His physical body but His actions, words, deeds, character traits, etc.) then you have seen the Father. Jesus is the express image of God the Father. The Father and the Son are on the same page in thought, will, deed, agenda, purpose, power, intellect, etc.

Hebrews 1:3

John 14:6-8

You want to know God then look at Jesus Christ. Jesus is God not a god. [/B]

* i agree that Christ is the image of the Father, but They are not one entity... and if Christ is the image of the Father, then Christ is really not the Father...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Isaiah 9:6-7

Did you catch that?

Jesus the Son of God aka., God manifested in the flesh aka., the Word made flesh is referred to as "Mighty God, Everlasting Father."

Isn't this blasphemy?

Not at all. Isaiah the prophet was inspired by the Spirit of God (the Third Person of the Godhead, Jesus is the Second, the Father is the First) when he spoke this prophesy 700 years before it came to pass. So we can safely conclude that it was God who called Jesus "Mighty God, Everlasting Father." [/B]

* yes, according to the prophesy, Jesus Christ would be called "Wonderful", "Counsellor", "Mighty God", "Everlasting Father", and "Prince of Peace"...

* Christ being the Son of God, albeit, the Wisdom and the Power of God (I Corinthians 1:24), He really is a Mighty God...

* Christ is also everlasting...

"But thou, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting."
Micah 5:2

* Christ is also a father to the apostles, not The Father, but a father to them... a father, a teacher or a master, a friend...

"And Jesus turned, and beheld them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? And they said unto him, Rabbi (which is to say, being interpreted, Teacher), where abideth thou?"
John 1:38

"No longer do I call you servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I heard from my Father, I have made known unto you."
John 15:15

"Jesus therefore saith unto them, Children, have ye aught to eat? They answered him, No."
John 21:5

"For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."
Jude 1:4

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Matthew 2:2

These men traveled for approximately two years to find and worship the infant Jesus. I don't know about you but I wouldn't travel a fraction of an inch to worship anyone. Yet these men subjected themselves to the rigors of traveling (probably on camel) across desert and treacherous terrain. They probably had to contend with wild animals and inclement weather and other discomforts.

All for what?

They were coming to worship God in the flesh, Jesus the Christ. [/B]

* there's no problem worshipping Christ, i believe that He is a God... you have to prove first that the Father Himself is the one who manifested in the flesh...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Mark 2:7

Luke 5:21

Luke 5:24

Luke 7:49

Friends, only God has the authority to forgive sins and Jesus did so. Folks, Jesus is God not a god. Jesus proved that He is God: Jesus even forgave sins while He was on earth. [/B]

* the Father and Christ have power and authority to forgive sins...

"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do."
John 14:13-14

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Matthew 28:9

Jesus receives worship. Under the Law of Moses (which was the Supreme Law of the Land for the Israelites, similar to our U.S. Constitution) the Jews were forbidden from worshipping any other god but the One, True, God. [/B]

* under the law of Moses, yes but when the Father gave birth to Christ, the Father Himself exalted Christ and made His angels worship Christ...

"And when he again bringeth in the firstborn into the world he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."
Hebrews 1:6

* even the angels are commanded to worship Christ, moreso for us, humans...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Revelation 19:10

Revelation 22:8-9

In the Book of Revelation John, one of Jesus' closest disciples and apostles was so overcome with the revelation that he received from the angel that he fell down at his (the angel's) feet to worship him on more than one occasion. But the angel immediately and sternly warned and forbid John from doing thus both times. The angel told the apostle John to worship God

Luke 24:52

John 9:35-38

Notice that unlike the angel Jesus never refrains from receiving worship. On every occasion where someone worshipped Jesus, Jesus did not warn them, or try to stop them. Jesus did not forbid anyone from worshipping Him and worship belongs only to God. Friends, Jesus is God and not a god. [/B]

* Christ did not forbid anyone from worshipping Him because He is the Only Begotten Son of God... and being the Son of God, He is a God... but He is not God, the Father IS God...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]John 5:18

The fact that Jesus is the Son of God does not imply that He is less than or inferior to the Father. Son of God means that Jesus is equal to the Father in every way. The Jews knew this that is why they sought all the more to kill Jesus. Son of God means that Jesus is God not a god. [/B]

* wrong, remember Christ was always persecuted by the Jews telling Him that He is a blasphemer, because by saying that He is the Son of God means He is in the same nature or being as the Father... the Father is God, the Son is a God...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Colossians 1:16

God is the Creator correct? Well, this verse is a reference to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Creator and Jesus Christ is God. [/B]

* plain misinterpretation... let us read other translation to see who really is the Creator and what Christ had to do with the Creation...

"Yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him."
I Corinthians 8:6

* OF whom are all things? the Father... THROUGH whom are all things? the Christ...

"All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
John 1:3

"For in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;"
Colossians 1:16

* all things are created by God... and all those things created by God were created through Christ...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]John 10:30

Jesus affirmed that He and His Father are one. What does Jesus mean? Jesus means that He and His Father constitute one "God" but not one divine Person. [/B]

* that's your interpretation, but let us always stick in the Bible... the Jews knew what Christ had said...

"The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
John 10:33

"For this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God."
John 5:18

* by saying "I and the Father are one", Christ revealed that He is a God, He is NOT God but He is a God...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]John 14:1

According to Jesus we are permitted to believe in Him just as we believe in the Father. The preposition "in" connotes and conveys something more than just mere mental assent. Jesus is saying that since we believe in (i.e., trust in, have faith in, and depend on) God the Father, that we should likewise trust in, have faith in, and depend on Him. [/B]

* that does not prove that Christ is the Father...

"Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, even he that denieth the Father and the Son ."
I John 2:22

"That all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father that sent him."
John 5:23

* there is a Father and there is a Son, and They are two different entities...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]John 14:13

John 14:14

John 15:16

John 16:23

John 16:24

John 16:26

The only thing that Jesus does not say for us to do is pray to Him. Jesus instructs us to pray to the Father in His Name (i.e., in Jesus Name) so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. . Remember the only Way to get to God the Father is through His Son Jesus. But even still Jesus says that whatever you ask in His Name, "that He will do...." In another place Jesus says that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. So there is congruity between what Jesus says He will do and what Jesus says that the Father will give us in the Name of Jesus. This congruence exists because Jesus is God not a god. [/B]

* the plain fact that Jesus teaches us to pray to the Father is because the Father is God... but being the Son of God, Christ is a God but NOT God...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]John 20:28

Doubting Thomas as he is commonly referred called Jesus his Lord and God. Some people want to refer to Jesus as their Lord but not their God as well. But Jesus is both Lord and God and not a god.

Titus 2:13

Again, Jesus the Christ is both our great God and Savior. Jesus is God and not a god. [/B]

* there is no problem with Christ being a God, but He is NOT God...

"Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,"
Titus 2:13

* who will appear?

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."
Luke 21:27

* people will see Christ with great glory... how about the Father?

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live."
Exodus 33:20

* see the difference?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Philippians 2:5-6

Jesus walked the earth fully God and fully Man. Jesus did not consider it robbery to be equal with God because He is God and not a god. But He is God the Son and not God the Father per se. [/B]

* Christ is a God and NOT human...

"He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.
Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had, and took the nature of a servant. He became like a human being and appeared in human likeness."
Philippians 2:6-7

* the being of Christ is in the nature of God, but Christ was manifested in the flesh and appeared in human likeness... Christ became only like a human being, He is not a human... He is a God...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Colossians 2:9

Jesus is God in human flesh and not a god. [/B]

* please do not include your personal interpretations and join it to the verse...

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,"
Colossians 2:9

* the verse says that Christ manifested in the flesh, and in that flesh dwells the fullness of the Godhead...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Hebrews 1:6

The term "firstborn" in some passages relative to Jesus connotes preeminence as is the case here. But the point I want you to see is that God the Father commands all of His angels to worship His Son Jesus in light of the fact the worship belongs only to God. So Jesus is God and not a god. [/B]

* "firstborn" denotes that there was a bearer and there was someone born... the bearer was the Father and the one who was born was Christ...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]The apostle Peter

2 Peter 1

Peter, Jesus' leading apostle/disciple who saw, experienced first-hand, and witnessed all of this refers to Jesus as our God and Savior. [/B]

* and may i add, not only Saint Peter witnessed all of it...

"And Simon Peter followed Jesus, and so did another disciple. Now that disciple was known unto the high priest, and entered in with Jesus into the court of the high priest;
but Peter was standing at the door without. So the other disciple, who was known unto the high priest, went out and spake unto her that kept the door, and brought in Peter."
John 18:15-16

"That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we beheld, and our hands handled, concerning the Word of life
(and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare unto you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us);"
I John 1:1-2

* Saint John also witnessed all of it...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Let me ask you something folks: were you there to see, experience first-hand, and witness all of these things that Jesus said and did? No? Me neither. But Peter was and did and he calls Jesus God.

Jesus is God and not a god.

* my argument still stands, Christ is a God but Christ is not God...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]John 14:28

But what about this Scripture passage where Jesus says that His Father is greater than Himself, JesusIsAlive?

What about it?

Jesus is simply giving His Father the glory as it were. Jesus does this in another instance as well. Here it is:

Matthew 19:15-17

Is Jesus saying that God the Father is the only good Person in the universe?

No, but what Jesus is doing is giving His Father the glory for being good. Jesus is as good as God the Father. Remember: Jesus never sinned. Read:

Acts 10:38

1 Peter 2:21-22

Jesus is simply giving His Father the glory because many of the same attributes that are revealed of the Father are ascribed to the Son Jesus as well.

The Lord Jesus even goes on to say that in the end...the final analysis...when every kingdom in the universe is eradicated (except God's Kingdom of course)...when all things are made subject to Himself, then He (Jesus) will also be subject to the Father who put all things under Jesus, that God (the Father) may be all in all (i.e., preeminent in everything)

Actually the Father God is already preeminent in all things but as long as the devil and his angels are loose and humanity is in rebellion, God's Sovereignty is not fully manifested. One day God's will will be done on earth as it is being done in Heaven. But that day has not come yet. Just look at the world under satan's control with sinful humanity under him: it is full of death, corruption, hate, racism, poverty, sickness and disease, natural disasters and it is only getting worse. [/B]

"And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all."
I Corinthians 15:28

* the verse simply stated that the Father is different from the Son...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God manifested in Three divine Persons that constitute the "Godhead." [/B]

* where is it?

"This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood.
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for the witness of God is this, that he hath borne witness concerning his Son."
I John 5:6-9

* do more research, my friend, this passage (I John 5:7 in King James Version) was spuriously added and was not included in the original manuscripts...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]The Glory of Jesus Christ Our Great God and Savior

Revelation 1:8

Almighty?

I thought God the Father was the Almighty?

Jesus is God and not a god. [/B]

* both the Father and Christ are called the Alpha and Omega... and They are both Almighty...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I close with the words of the Lord Jesus Himself:

[B]Mark 14:60-64

Notice that the Lord Jesus did not answer any of the petty questions.

oooo! No, He didn't. No Jesus didn't just say that He was the Christ the SON OF THE BLESSED. The high priest, the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes were present when those words came out of Jesus mouth. They KNEW exactly what Jesus was saying. Well, just what was Jesus saying? First let's look at the high priest's reaction to what Jesus said.

Mark 14:63-64

The high priest called Jesus affirmation of being the Christ (Anointed One), the Son of the Blessed (God) blasphemy. Now why would they accuse Jesus of such a serious charge? By Jesus Christ affirming that He is the Christ (i.e. Anointed One), the Son of God He is saying that He and God the Father are equal and one. The high priest knew this that is why he (the high priest) tore his own clothes then said that what Jesus had said was blasphemy.

Matthew's account of what took place as Jesus stood before the high priest.

Matthew 26:57-66[/B]

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory ."
Luke 21:27

"Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,"
Titus 2:13

* Christ will appear and shall be seen by people...

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live."
Exodus 33:20

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;"
Colossians 1:15

* the Father shall not be seen by people... 😉

Oh the posts are so long, even by my standards.

Forgive me oh sky father!.... Because I havn't bothered reading them.

Originally posted by Regret
I read the post.

I believe you have stated that you believe in the Trinitarian doctrine as stated in the Nicene Creed. I paraphrase, but you have stated that you believe that there is one God that is manifested in three personages, all of which are the singular entity God. Jesus and the Father are separate presentations of the same God, differing in form and purpose, but the same singular entity God. If I am wrong here, correct me.

If this is true, then the Bible references I quoted are misleading and are thus lies regardless of other reference supposedly supporting Trinitarian belief. That is what I stated.

Your statement "Jesus is not the Father but Jesus is God. Did you get that? God doesn't mean that Jesus is the Father it just means that He too is among the Godhead." may mean that I am incorrect in your view of what the Godhead is, and if I am then my statements are in error as to your belief, and I am sorry if I am wrong and have posted as such. If your view is that the Godhead is three separate and distinct beings that are one in purpose, but not in substance, then I apologize for my remarks. If your view is not this, then I do not apologize, and I still hold my statements as correct in their intent as well as content.

Three separate entities and distinct beings and yet are One is entirely irrational doctrine....

[QUOTE=7194397]Originally posted by peejayd
* Christ did not forbid anyone from worshipping Him because He is the Only Begotten Son of God... and being the Son of God, He is a God... but He is not God, the Father IS God...

Peejayd, I need to ask this question right off the top: what is the evidence that you personally know Jesus; that you are saved? I am just curious?

Peejayd, sir, you have failed to furnish Scriptures where Jesus is called a god. There is no such thing. Why do you insist on inserting an indefinite article in front of the word God when not one of the writers of the Bible does that?. Jesus is either God or He is not. But He definitely is not a god. That is to belittle Who He is. Again, provide Scriptures for what you believe as I have done copiously.

* wrong, remember Christ was always persecuted by the Jews telling Him that He is a blasphemer, because by saying that He is the Son of God means He is in the same nature or being as the Father... the Father is God, the Son is a God...

That is not what John 5:18 states. Lets go there:

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

According to this passage of Scripture the Jews sought all the more to kill Jesus because He not only broke the Sabbath (He could do that because He is Lord even of the Sabbath, it was made for man not man for it) but because He said that God was His Father making Himself equal with God. Jesus is equal with God. Again, I reiterate nowhere in the Bible is Jesus ever called a god. Jesus is God--God the Son.

* plain misinterpretation... let us read other translation to see who really is the Creator and what Christ had to do with the Creation...

"Yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him."
I Corinthians 8:6

* OF whom are all things? the Father... THROUGH whom are all things? the Christ...

"All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
John 1:3

"For in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;"
Colossians 1:16

* all things are created by God... and all those things created by God were created through Christ...

I truly don't understand how you can underestimate what Jesus has done. God (the Father) wants the body of Christ to know that He, the Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit had a part in creation. There is unity among the Godhead. That is the Truth that you are not accepting. I think you understand it but you do not accept this. Do you realize that whether you do something personally or do it through someone else that actually the person that you are doing it through is just as indispensable. For example, electrical current flows through a conductor. Let me ask you something? Can the electrical current get from point a to point b without the conductor? No, it cannot. So the conductor is just as important as the electricity. This is a terrible comparison with regard to God the Father and God the Son but I just want you to get this. Actually, when I think about it, you are raising Jesus' importance by stating via Scriptures that God the Father effected creation through His Son Jesus. I know that was not your intent but that is what you are doing based on my analogy.

* that's your interpretation, but let us always stick in the Bible... the Jews knew what Christ had said...

"The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
John 10:33

"For this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God."
John 5:18

* by saying "I and the Father are one", Christ revealed that He is a God, He is NOT God but He is a God...

All I ask...all I want...all I desire...is for you to substantiate that with Scriptures...that's all and I will bring my beliefs into agreement with it. I have no problem with that at all. I am a student of the Word. But if you cannot do thus, then why do you persist in stating something that you cannot support with Scripture? Do you understand where I am coming from Peejayd?

* that does not prove that Christ is the Father...

I (read my lips, I mean words): never said that Jesus was God the Father. I had this same communication problem with Regret. I blame myself for not conveying my thoughts adequately, I do not blame you, Regret or anyone.

"Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, even he that denieth the Father and the Son ."
I John 2:22

"That all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father that sent him."
John 5:23

* there is a Father and there is a Son, and They are two different entities...

That is what I have been saying all along. But Jesus is God and not a god, He's just God the Son. There is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I have not deviated from this in any of my posts. Go back and re-read them if necessary. I am consistent. Also consistent is the fact that my statements keep being misinterpreted. When I say that Jesus is God in the flesh hear is what you hear: Jesus is God the Father in the flesh. But what I am saying is that Jesus is God the Son in the flesh. Yes Jesus is human and divine simultaneously.

* the plain fact that Jesus teaches us to pray to the Father is because the Father is God... but being the Son of God, Christ is a God but NOT God...

So is Jesus. Again, you have failed to provide Scriptures that can sustain your insistent belief that Jesus is a god. The burden of proof is on you as it were. I am stating that Jesus is God, God the Son. You are asserting that Jesus is a god.

Two words: show me. Where? What chapter and verse? What Book of the Bible. I would love for you to provide several Scriptures but I don't recall that you have even produced one. This is not a challenge, this is a plea. Again, I will bring my beliefs into line if there is enough Scriptural support for it. But the fact is there isn't any.

* there is no problem with Christ being a God, but He is NOT God...

Already responded to this, next. I never said or indicated (intentionally) that Jesus is the Father. I said that Jesus is God the Son. Jesus occupies the Godhead just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

"Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,"
Titus 2:13

* who will appear?

I am so very elated and glad that you asked because I am eagerly obliged to tell you: the great God and Savior Jesus Christ! Notice what is conspicuous in its absolute absence: the indefinite article that you invariably insert (because it sure isn't there). Peejayd there are some things that can be inserted (but only as an explanatory thing). The difference between what I insert and what you produce is that my explanatory phrases are drawn straight out of the Word (i.e., they are consistent with the context and inferred). But what you come up with completely changes the meaning of the verse. An indefinite article changes the meaning of a sentence. Case in point: if I say that I prefer to eat an apple I am not being very specific. But if I say that I desire to eat the apple on that tree over there now I am being definite. Thus the term definite article and indefinite article. I said all that to say this: the Bible (which is given by inspiration of God) states that Jesus is our great God and Savior. But yet you say that Jesus is a god. Can you see the difference between what God (the Father) says about His Son and what you say about His Son? God the Father is being specific and definite but you are being unspecific. That is where I have to draw the line and disagree with you. That is a point of contention for me (and should be for any other true believers in Christ). You are taking something away from Jesus and (perhaps inadvertently) putting Jesus in the same class as all of the other false gods. This is the implication when you insert an indefinite article in front of Jesus' true designation. Jesus is God not a god based on the Bible. Base your conclusions about Jesus on the Word not on anything else, not even your own interpretations.

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."
Luke 21:27

* people will see Christ with great glory... how about the Father?

Already responded to this, next. I never said or indicated (intentionally) that Jesus is the Father. I said that Jesus is God the Son. Jesus occupies the Godhead just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live."
Exodus 33:20

* see the difference?

Originally posted by peejayd

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live."
Exodus 33:20

* see the difference?

* Christ is a God and NOT human...

"He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.
Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had, and took the nature of a servant. He became like a human being and appeared in human likeness."
Philippians 2:6-7

* the being of Christ is in the nature of God, but Christ was manifested in the flesh and appeared in human likeness... Christ became only like a human being, He is not a human... He is a God...

* please do not include your personal interpretations and join it to the verse...

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,"
Colossians 2:9

* the verse says that Christ manifested in the flesh, and in that flesh dwells the fullness of the Godhead...

* "firstborn" denotes that there was a bearer and there was someone born... the bearer was the Father and the one who was born was Christ... [/B]

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live."
Exodus 33:20

* see the difference?

Already responded to this, next. I never said or indicated (intentionally) that Jesus is the Father. I said that Jesus is God the Son. Jesus occupies the Godhead just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

* Christ is a God and NOT human...

What? Peejayd, now I am thoroughly convinced that you are misguided in your understanding of Who Jesus Christ really is. I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. First you insert the letter "a" in front of God to make it read Jesus is a god. But now you say that Jesus is not human. You are severely in error. A true believer in Christ cannot say that Jesus is not human because that is tantamount to saying that Jesus did not come in the flesh. That is what John 1:14 means when it says that the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. It means that Jesus, God the Son, became a Man, a human being. Read:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus ,

I love the way God the Holy Spirit emphasizes certain aspects of Jesus' nature so that we end up with a complete montage as it were. In this case the apostle Paul (under the Holy Spirit's inspiration) wants us to see the humanity-side of Jesus dual nature. But in other passages you will see writers emphasize the deity of Christ. That is why in one instance Jesus is referred to as our great God and Savior, but in another passage Jesus is called "Man" or "Son of Man." God the Father knew that these types of issues would surface so He inspired the writers to strategically reveal certain Truths about Jesus. Did you notice that I said that that Father inspired the writers and not the Holy Spirit that time? I did not intentionally mean to do that. I think the Father lead me to do that becaue they are One (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Not One Person, but One God. Glory to God!

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a High Priest [Jesus Christ] who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Did you get that? Jesus was in all points tempted as we are yet without sin. Jesus walked this earth as the God-Man. He was tempted to commit sin just like we are. The difference is that Jesus did not yield to sin. Jesus got hungry, tired, slept, wept. After Jesus was conceived in the virgin Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit's power, He (Jesus) had to develop in His human, earthly mother's womb just like any other developing fetus. Jesus had to be born into the world just like any other human being. Jesus had to drink His earthly mother's milk, then eat solid food, then learn to talk, then learn to walk, then learn to go to the potty, then learn to dress Himself, then learn how to bathe himself, then learn how to make a lamb sandwich...I mean...then learn how to count, then learn how to read, then learn how to drive (the family donkey, just joking, I have to add some levity to this post), but then Jesus had to learn how to learn the carpentry trade, then learn how to do all of the other things that humans learn. Read:

Luke 2:52
And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature , and in favor with God and men.

Uh, oh...Peejayd, if Jesus was just God the Son and not human at the same time then how come He had to increase in wisdom? See, that is the human aspect of Jesus' divine/human nature. Jesus is both God and Man and He will forever be that way so that He can always relate to us, emphathize with us. God--the Son--knows what it is to be a human. He understands our struggles with sin (although He did not ever sin). Jesus knows what we feel first-hand. Go ahead Jesus!

"He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.
Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had, and took the nature of a servant. He became like a human being and appeared in human likeness."
Philippians 2:6-7

With all due respect Peejayd what Bible are you reading and quoting from? You say, "He became like a human being and appeared in human likeness". You are actually changing the meaning. The Scripture does not say that Jesus became like anything. You are saying that. You really must make a better effort to stop adding to or putting your spin on what the Word says. The Word says:

Philippians 2:7
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men .

The coming in the likeness of men part is not the same as what you said. You said that Jesus "became like." That is different than "coming in the likeness of." Jesus was born into this world from a virgin by the Holy Spirit's power. Jesus Christ is the Word "made flesh." In other words, Jesus is all God and all Man. Jesus often referred to Himself as the Son of Man. Why do you think that He did that? Jesus wanted his audience to know that He is as much human as He is God. That is why He referred to Himself as the Son of God as well. So that His audience (as well as us today) would know that He is as much God--the Son--as He is human. Jesus did not become like a human being. The day I was born I did not become like a human, I am a human. You, Peejayd, were born a human, you did not become like a human being--you are a human being. And, Jesus did not become like a human being, He is a human being but God at the same time. If you can find what you assert anywhere in the Bible then I must and will recant this statement. I will come into agreement immediately. But the truth of the matter is that the interpretation that you maintain is unsupportable by the Bible.

* the being of Christ is in the nature of God, but Christ was manifested in the flesh and appeared in human likeness... Christ became only like a human being, He is not a human... He is a God...

Already responded to this, next.

* please do not include your personal interpretations and join it to the verse...

Peejayd, with all due respect that is what you have done, almost without any qualms. Actually I don't think that you feel any qualms about changing Scripture. I suspect that you do not believe that you are changing Scripture. Nevertheless, I believe that you are. But when you do it you are doing it without drawing a well-supported inference from the Scripture. God allows for clarification of His Word but He does not condone the complete altering and changing of His Word. I strive to make sure that any explanatory text (that I put in brackets by the way so that you all will know that it is not included in Scripture but intended to clarify) that I insert is there conceptually and/or inferentially, without changing the meaning. Explanatory comments should reinforce what the Scripture has already said and explain it, but it should never alter the meaning.

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,"
Colossians 2:9

* the verse says that Christ manifested in the flesh, and in that flesh dwells the fullness of the Godhead...

My point precisely. I have been affirming all along that Jesus is God in the flesh, but He is God the Son, not God the Father. Moreover, I have positively stated that Jesus is God "made flesh." Hence, Jesus is the only divine Man; yes Jesus has a dual nature. This is consistent with Scripture. My Lord is both flesh (human) and God (divine) simultaneously and forevermore. Go ahead Jesus!

* "firstborn" denotes that there was a bearer and there was someone born... the bearer was the Father and the one who was born was Christ... [/B][/QUOTE]

Look up the word firstborn in a good bible dictionary. Besides its obvious meaning there is another shade or sense that that word connotes depending on the context.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Show me where I said that Jesus is the Father. I said that Jesus and the Father are one. I furnished Scriptures that allude to Jesus and the Father's oneness but not their lack of individuality. Go back and read the posts entitled, "Jesus is God not a god" Part 1, 2, and 3. I have endeavored to show that Jesus is not a god. I surmise that what is throwing you off is the fact that I state that Jesus is God. I don't mean that Jesus is God the Father. Again go back and re-read my posts. The word "God" at times is used to refer to just the Father. Sometimes the term refers to the Son or the Holy Spirit individually. But the word "God" is singular (depending on the context) and can mean Father, Son or Holy Spirit. Look at the context to know Who or which One that it refers to. For example in the Book of Acts chapter 5 verse 3 Peters tells Ananias that he has lied to the Holy Spirit then in the very next verse Peter says that he (Ananias) has not lied to men but to God. Can you see what I mean now? The word "God" is singular and can refer to either Father, Son, or Holy Spirit because each One is God but they are God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit respectively. Furthermore, I believe that whenever I say that Jesus is God and not a god here is what you hear: "Jesus is the Father God." But that is not what I am teaching. I am teaching that Jesus is God (i.e., in and among the Three Who constitute the Godhead, Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Jesus confessed to being the Christ, the Son of the Blessed. The high priest, the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes knew what Jesus meant: that He and God--the Father--are equal. This is what drove the high priest into a rage. How dare Jesus affirm equality with God--they thought Jesus was just an ordinary Joe, Who managed to amass a following. But there Jesus stood before them declaring equality with God. That was the last straw. Jesus was condemned to die. He had to die for what He said because to them Jesus was speaking pure, unmitigated blasphemy. Folks, either Jesus is a liar, lunatic, or...He is Who He said that He is: the Son of God Who is equal with God--the Father. I think everytime that I say God I need to either say God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit. Because almost by default the term "God" refers to the Father. I think that is what tripped you up Regret. Lastly, I have already presented ample Scriptures where Jesus is called God. I just gave you one where the Holy Spirit is called God. Those Scriptures support my affirmation that Jesus is God--God the Son.

Now, there are designations (appelations, names, titles), if you would throughout the Bible that give the impression that Jesus is the Father such as in Isaiah 9:6-7 where Jesus is called "everlasting Father." But don't let my use of these verses discommode you. Read my lips (well in this case my words): Jesus is not the Father but Jesus is God. Did you get that? God doesn't mean that Jesus is the Father it just means that He too is among the Godhead.

Whew! I hope this justifies me and explains my position which I base on the Word of God.

Peejayd here is my response to Regret's post. I believe that it will help to clarify my position on Who Jesus is. I did not mean to confuse anyone or lead anyone to believe that Jesus is the Father. Jesus and the Father are One but not the same Person. Actually this is what I have said all along but my words seem to be misinterpreted. Nevertheless, I will accept all the blame and fault for this.

Oh the humanity.