Superman vs. Shazam! ( Captain Marvel)

Originally posted by zeel
If your refering to the magical lightning, superman was literally screaming when he got hit by them. And was bleeding from the nose and ears btw. KC supes also had magical upgrades like current supes. Prolong exposure to the sun helped there. Even so KC cap is a peer to KC supes but KC supes is still stronger by a bit then cap.

It's the opposite actually. KC CM is one of the few incarnations where Captain Marvel was explicitly Superman's superior (although obviously not by a huge amount). Again, in the scan I posted a page or two back, Superman calls Captain Marvel the mightiest among the metahumans, which of course includes himself. It showed in the fight, Marvel was so fast that he was a red blur to Supes and outran him to warhead.

The pro-superman argument was that Supes was just trying to reason with Marvel, but that is irrelevant since Marvel was confirmed later to be stronger regardless, which gives light to Superman's attempt at reason as a situation where he basically had no other choice. As he wasn't going to be able to defeat Marvel somehow and then try to quickly stop the warhead after.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
It's the opposite actually. KC CM is one of the few incarnations where Captain Marvel was explicitly Superman's superior (although obviously not by a huge amount). Again, in the scan I posted a page or two back, Superman calls Captain Marvel the mightiest among the metahumans, which of course includes himself. It showed in the fight, Marvel was so fast that he was a red blur to Supes and outran him to warhead.

The pro-superman argument was that Supes was just trying to reason with Marvel, but that is irrelevant since Marvel was confirmed later to be stronger regardless, which gives light to Superman's attempt at reason as a situation where he basically had no other [B]choice. As he wasn't going to be able to defeat Marvel somehow and then try to quickly stop the warhead after. [/B]

facepalm
Superman beat CM. Superman survived the warhead, while Cm died quickly. Superman wasn't trying to kill him, but CM was. Superman was reason with him, but CM wasn't. AND Superman still won.

That saying "Strongest/mightiest" doesn't apply here. Superman has been said to be the strongest man on earth. We know it's not true. MM was stated to be stronger then the either JLA by Superman.

I still consider taking the full point blank effect of a warhead, and getting splash damage as two different things. Cap was stronger, and he got the brunt of the attack.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
facepalm
Superman beat CM. Superman survived the warhead, while Cm died quickly. Superman wasn't trying to kill him, but CM was. Superman was reason with him, but CM wasn't. AND Superman still won.

That saying "Strongest/mightiest" doesn't apply here. Superman has been said to be the strongest man on earth. We know it's not true. MM was stated to be stronger then the either JLA by Superman.

Superman beat Billy Batson. The argument for a Supes 'victory' in that situation is a VERY hollow one. Superman did not demonstrate any superiority over CM in that fight and simply grabbed him in a final desperate burst of will before Cap could sidestep his own lightning. Thus reverting him back to Billy. Were Marvel not under Luthor's mind control wouldn't have relied on such a risky, fool hardy strategy.

And all the while Supes was trying to reason with him, Marvel wasn't even straining himself in the least (and indeed he had a smug look on his face the whole time) while beating up Supes, so again, neither were fighting to their full potential.

Superman was hurt by the blast at least and he wasn't point blank inside the explosion like Marvel was. Again, Marvel screamed 'Shazam' three times which would suggest he turned back to Billy as the explosion went off.

As for Supes' recognition of Marvel as the strongest 'not applying here', that is simply bunk when the fight before hand demonstrated exactly that.

Marvel was a red blur to Supes the entire time and even outran him easily to the warhead, and you can bet that Supes wasn't holding back on his speed in such a dire situation, nay he was trying to get to the warhead as fast as possible. Not to mention he was recalling the story to a non-superhero and made a point to mention Marvel was the strongest. And in that case simple flattery wouldn't be serving anyone any good. He was simply telling the truth.

Superman wasn't trying to reason because he didn't want to hurt Marvel. He was trying to reason because until Marvel was turned back in to Billy, Supes had NO CHOICE. Marvel was his superior. Reasoning was his only option.

Just about everyone tries to reason when they know they're beat, it's a fact.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
facepalm
Superman beat CM. Superman survived the warhead, while Cm died quickly. Superman wasn't trying to kill him, but CM was. Superman was reason with him, but CM wasn't. AND Superman still won.

That saying "Strongest/mightiest" doesn't apply here. Superman has been said to be the strongest man on earth. We know it's not true. MM was stated to be stronger then the either JLA by Superman.

why do ppl keep saying it was CM that died from warhead, it was billy as he would of transformed into billy after sayiing shazam 3 times while being CM

Originally posted by ankur29
why do ppl keep saying it was CM that died from warhead, it was billy as he would of transformed into billy after sayiing shazam 3 times while being CM

You are in denial because your favorite character lost. That much is certain.

Superman beat Billy Batson. The argument for a Supes 'victory' in that situation is a VERY hollow one. Superman did not demonstrate any superiority over CM in that fight and simply grabbed him in a final desperate burst of will before Cap could sidestep his own lightning. Thus reverting him back to Billy. Were Marvel not under Luthor's mind control wouldn't have relied on such a risky, fool hardy strategy.

Superman beat him! He beat him without harming him at all!(except the HV). If marvel did not shout out Shazam when Superman was blasting him with the HV, Marvel would have lost. I told you if you believe Marvel to be stronger, or faster please post a feat and I will post one as well that beats it.

And all the while Supes was trying to reason with him, Marvel wasn't even straining himself in the least (and indeed he had a smug look on his face the whole time) while beating up Supes, so again, neither were fighting to their full potential.

Superman was hurt by the blast at least and he wasn't point blank inside the explosion like Marvel was. Again, Marvel screamed 'Shazam' three times which would suggest he turned back to Billy as the explosion went off.

As for Supes' recognition of Marvel as the strongest 'not applying here', that is simply bunk when the fight before hand demonstrated exactly that.

Superman wasn't trying to reason because he didn't want to hurt Marvel. He was trying to reason because until Marvel was turned back in to Billy, Supes had NO CHOICE. Marvel was his superior. Reasoning was his only option.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/KCS/kingdomcome4pg06.jpg

Look at this scan. Superman isn't even trying to hit him. He grabs his hands and is reasoning. Superman doesn't want to fight another hero. Like he said, he wants to work together.

Marvel was a red blur to Supes the entire time and even outran him easily to the warhead, and you can bet that Supes wasn't holding back on his speed in such a dire situation, nay he was trying to get to the warhead as fast as possible.

Not to mention he was recalling the story to a non-superhero and made a point to mention Marvel was the strongest.

He tells Shazam that he is both a Hero(super human), AND a mortal. He told him he knows how it is to live both lives which is why HE must choose if Humans die or Super Human die. He choose that human live.

Originally posted by xJLxKing

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/KCS/kingdomcome4pg06.jpg

who is narrating? is spectre saying that shazam is other being powerful to end superhuman war?

Also can you show the scan where shazam explodes?

edit no need i found it:
http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/4310/marvel9a109gm.gif

the lightning hasn't evn come down when shazam has finsihed saying it, how do you know that he didn't transform back into billy when the lightning did come down?

Originally posted by ankur29
who is narrating? is spectre saying that shazam is other being powerful to end superhuman war?

Also can you show the scan where shazam explodes?

And that person is saying that the Spectre is the other being powerful enough to stop it all.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
facepalm
Superman beat CM. Superman survived the warhead, while Cm died quickly. Superman wasn't trying to kill him, but CM was. Superman was reason with him, but CM wasn't. AND Superman still won.

That saying "Strongest/mightiest" doesn't apply here. Superman has been said to be the strongest man on earth. We know it's not true. MM was stated to be stronger then the either JLA by Superman.

Until then it was pretty much stated on panel that CM was able to counter everything Superman could do, he did, and was in fact winning when he started using his magical abilities.

Superman survived the warhead because he wasn't at the detonation point. It was heavily implied that Superman would die as well if he took the brunt of the force like CM did.

And least we not forget that Superman wasn't the only hero to survive or are you forgetting Green Lantern.

Obviously I guess GL >>>>>>>>>>> CM as well

As for the rest. Superman was trying to reason with CM because he knew couldn't get past CM like he could everyone else. Or do you forget Superman was on his way to end the conflict before CM STOPPED him.

facepalm

Good lord. Why is Kingdom Come even being debated? It's not canon. Stick with normal Kal and Billy, please.

alex ross's CM is cannon 2 me 😄

Billy should win, but in "normal" circumstances, Supes barely edges out a victory. 5.5/10

Originally posted by Raoul
Good lord. Why is Kingdom Come even being debated? It's not canon. Stick with normal Kal and Billy, please.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I though it was canon? can we still debate it though?

And yes you can debate them.

You would just have to open a thread that is KC Superman vs KC Captain Marvel.

Originally posted by Newjak
It is canon, but it happened in another universe so the Supes and CM in those realities aren't the same ones being used here.

And yes you can debate them.

You would just have to open a thread that is KC Superman vs KC Captain Marvel.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You aren't a mod. I don't like warning.

But you asked if you could still debate KC Supes vs KC CM. So I gave you an option on how to do that, you know like a friendly poster would do. 🙂

Originally posted by Newjak
I didn't give you a warning, and you're right I'm not a mod.

But you asked if you could still debate KC Supes vs KC CM. So I gave you an option on how to do that, you know like a friendly poster would do. 🙂

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Thank you 😄