Originally posted by JakeTheBankI can't believe I searched for this just to prove you wrong, h1, but here. It's clearly in his power set.
And yes, I'm fully aware that this was a sucker two punch.
Yeah, Cap's been able to charge his punches for awhile now.
Billy and Adam were exchanging them in Black Reign as well, complete with "KRAKOOM" sound effects.
Originally posted by carver9
You might need to show him the next page when Superman was laid out. Also, show him the other "one shot" as well... maybe that would put some thought in his head.In Superman/Batman, Cap dealt more damage to Supes than vice verse. [b]They hit each other with the same amount of punches
but Cap didn't have a scratch but Superman face was bruised up. [/B]
Nah, Supes got in 1 punch max, then just stood there while Cap delivered two more.
Also, there's the fact a giant Kryptonite asteroid was nearing Earth, and Supes just recovered from being shot with a Kryptonite bullet. I know Supes himself commented on the magic, but those are still factors.
...and I guess I'll end this with quad posts. 😮💨
Edit: Whoops, Jake posted above me, so it's only tripp posts. 🙁
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Looks like you forgot a page bro:
http://i55.tinypic.com/2uesolj.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/slpphl.jpg"And the truth is I wanted to kill him with my bare hands. And I tried. Oh, how I tried."
If you want an explanation, it looks like he changed his mind about throwing Doomsday into the sun, and sent him to Earth instead to farther beat on him until he finally killed him.
It may seem like lowballing to you because you don't read comics, but I'm not trying to lowball here. I'm not even trying to argue his heat visions effect, I'm just saying that he did try to kill "Doomday'.
And I already explained it to you bro, I even quoted it for carver. Yes he wanted to kill BUT FIRST he wanted to make Doomsday suffer. It can't be clearer then this. The two scans you show are the two before the one I showed you, where he also says that he wants to kill but the most important part ist, he wanted to make him suffer first. You know when you kill someone instantlay he won't suffer? So no, he fought to make her suffer and then to kill her. You cannot argue about the suffering part, it'S written clear as a day.
You can say that he wanted to kill her but make her suffer first, that's the context but it's absolute Bullsh!t to say he wanted to kill her with every punch or every second of the fight, that's only possible if you completly ignore the "suffering first" part.
So maybe you should start reading again 😉.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
And I already explained it to you bro, I even quoted it for carver. Yes he wanted to kill BUT FIRST he wanted to make Doomsday suffer. It can't be clearer then this. The two scans you show are the two before the one I showed you, where he also says that he wants to kill but the most important part ist, he wanted to make him suffer first. You know when you kill someone instantlay he won't suffer? So no, he fought to make her suffer and then to kill her. You cannot argue about the suffering part, it'S written clear as a day.
You can say that he wanted to kill her but make her suffer first, that's the context but it's absolute Bullsh!t to say he wanted to kill her with every punch or every second of the fight, that's only possible if you completly ignore the "suffering first" part.So maybe you should start reading again 😉.
He was trying to toss her in the sun... I'm pretty sure the heat vision bathe that he was giving her wasn't him holding back since "again", he was trying to dip her in the sun AFTER heat visioning her. Use that noggin... why hold back on your heat vision when you are trying to throw that person into the sun?
He would have done it too if she didn't break his grip. The only reason everything changed was when she pulled out some kryptonite... he then punches her towards Earth.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
And I already explained it to you bro, I even quoted it for carver. Yes he wanted to kill BUT FIRST he wanted to make Doomsday suffer. It can't be clearer then this. The two scans you show are the two before the one I showed you, where he also says that he wants to kill but the most important part ist, he wanted to make him suffer first. You know when you kill someone instantlay he won't suffer? So no, he fought to make her suffer and then to kill her. You cannot argue about the suffering part, it'S written clear as a day.
You can say that he wanted to kill her but make her suffer first, that's the context but it's absolute Bullsh!t to say he wanted to kill her with every punch or every second of the fight, that's only possible if you completly ignore the "suffering first" part.So maybe you should start reading again 😉.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
He wanted to kill her but first he wanted to make her (Dommsday) suffer, so yes during the fight he didn't try to kill her, he would have killed her in the end, after he would finish the punishment.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You know that Superman doesn't kill and he sure as hell doesn't want to cripple or damage his opponents irreparably. He uses his HV like a force blast most of the time and when not he burns the opponents. The fight with WW, he wanted to make her suffer not kill er out right, a big difference.
"And the truth is I wanted to kill him with my bare hands. And I tried. Oh, how I tried."
You're right, it doesn't get much clearer than that. There's a reason why you ignored the first scan when you went looking for it. No need to accuse me of ignoring anything though when you blatantly ignored Superman saying he tried to kill her.
Like I said, if you want the non contradicting explanation, Superman changed his mind. He tried to throw 'him' into the sun and then realized he wanted to make him suffer after he resisted and defended so he hit him back to Earth. Because you don't make someone suffer by throwing them into the sun...
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
"And the truth is I wanted to kill him with my bare hands. [b]And I tried. Oh, how I tried."You're right, it doesn't get much clearer than that. There's a reason why you ignored the first scan when you went looking for it. No need to accuse me of ignoring anything though when you blatantly ignored Superman saying he tried to kill her.
Like I said, if you want the non contradicting explanation, Superman changed his mind. He tried to throw 'him' into the sun and then realized he wanted to make him suffer so he hit him back to Earth. Because you don't make someone suffer by throwing them into the sun... [/B]
He wouldn't throw her into the sun because she came with Kryptonite and he had to get disposed of this threat quick, so the punch was necessary. A Big 😂 the "changing his mind".
The least contradiction would be. He wanted to make DD suffer, burn him, torture him, on his trip to the sun, where he would kill him. He defended himself from the Kryptonite, punched her back to earth and then really tried to kill her, he tried hard.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeYou realize that it would have been just as easy to punch her into the sun as it would be to punch her back to Earth... probably easier?
He wouldn't throw her into the sun because she came with Kryptonite and he had to get disposed of this threat quick, so the punch was necessary. A Big 😂 the "changing his mind".The least contradiction would be. He wanted to make DD suffer, burn him, torture him, on his trip to the sun, where he would kill him. He defended himself from the Kryptonite, punched her back to earth and then really tried to kill her, he tried hard.
Why would that be the least contradictory? He was going to throw her into the sun until she defended against him in a trip that lasted a couple of seconds... He wanted to kill him, and burn him via the sun via showing the sun while he's saying that, and then looks like he changed his mind or had it changed for him and then tried to make him suffer back on Earth.
In the same panel he said he wanted to make him suffer was the one where he punched him back to Earth.
Seems pretty darn clear
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
You realize that it would have been just as easy to punch her into the sun as it would be to punch her back to Earth... probably easier?Why would that be the least contradictory? He was going to throw her into the sun until she defended against him in a trip that lasted a couple of seconds... He wanted to kill him, and burn him via the sun via showing the sun while he's saying that, and then looks like he changed his mind or had it changed for him and then tried to make him suffer back on Earth.
In the same panel he said he wanted to make him suffer was the one where he punched him back to Earth.Seems pretty darn clear
Maybe because you didn't read the actual fight and only Supermans memory of it? His statements are about the actual fight. And he punched her fast to defend himself, she landed on earth, what's your point. Reading his memories and comparing it to the actual fight it's clear as a day, that he didn't want to kill her with his first HV blast, just give her pain.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeFunny you mention me not reading the fight and bringing up the fast punch, because Diana's back was actually against the sun the whole time. Superman would have actually had to twist around all the way to punch her back to Earth. Plus he said he wanted to make her suffer on the same panel his punch landed to send her back to Earth. Just some cute tidbits.
Maybe because you didn't read the actual fight and only Supermans memory of it? His statements are about the actual fight. And he punched her fast to defend himself, she landed on earth, what's your point. Reading his memories and comparing it to the actual fight it's clear as a day, that he didn't want to kill her with his first HV blast, just give her pain.
And without Superman's memory of it, you don't even have the "suffering" part. I'm trying to explain it taking everything into account. You... well, you'll see.
Her bones were burning in her face, and she was going to go into the sun if she didn't defend herself. Seems like he tried to kill her... after that he started breaking her bones and such which fall in line with suffering.
But, anyway...
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You know that Superman doesn't kill and he sure as hell doesn't want to cripple or damage his opponents irreparably. He uses his HV like a force blast most of the time and when not he burns the opponents. The fight with WW, he wanted to make her suffer not kill er out right, a big difference.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
He wanted to kill her but first he wanted to make her (Dommsday) suffer, so yes during the fight he didn't try to kill her, he would have killed her in the end, after he would finish the punishment.
...
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
He wouldn't throw her into the sun because she came with Kryptonite and he had to get disposed of this threat quick, so the punch was necessary. A Big 😂 the "changing his mind".The least contradiction would be. He wanted to make DD suffer, burn him, torture him, on his trip to the sun, where he would kill him. He defended himself from the Kryptonite, punched her back to earth and then really tried to kill her, he tried hard.
Progess
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Funny you mention me not reading the fight and bringing up the fast punch, because Diana's back was actually against the sun the whole time. Superman would have actually had to twist around all the way to punch her back to Earth. Plus he said he wanted to make her suffer on the same panel his punch landed to send her back to Earth. Just some cute tidbits.And without Superman's memory of it, you don't even have the "suffering" part. I'm trying to explain it taking everything into account. You... well, you'll see.
Her bones were burning in her face, and she was going to go into the sun if she didn't defend herself. Seems like he tried to kill her... after that he started breaking her bones and such which fall in line with suffering.
But, anyway...
...
Progess
Seems like... omg.. and the Sun was there, it's round, you know and it shines, there was light in the background, but when we see the punch the sun is directly behind Superman. He didn't say anything in the actual fight, just in his memoires he gives us his thoughts.
Burning her bones in her face = killing then? Ok, dude way to go.
You don't make anyone it seems. I grow bored of this.
Then, like in later he tried to kill her. bored Pretty obvious, I'm done with it.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeLike I said, he would have had to twist all the way around to deliver that shot. He could have hit her into the sun at any time like his original intent, but wanted to make her suffer. I'm just adding a cute tidbit.
Seems like... omg.. and the Sun was there, it's round, you know and it shines, there was light in the background, but when we see the punch the sun is directly behind Superman. He didn't say anything in the actual fight, just in his memoires he gives us his thoughts.Burning her bones in her face = killing then? Ok, dude way to go.
You don't make anyone it seems. I grow bored of this.
[b]Then
, like in later he tried to kill her. bored Pretty obvious, I'm done with it. [/B]
It's on its way to death. If she didn't stop him she'd have her face collapsed before she went into the sun. You don't make someone suffer by shooting a beam through their head.
I don't make anyone it seems... what?
Of course you grow bored of it, any point you had you changed it.
"so yes during the fight he didn't try to kill her"
"punched her back to earth and then really tried to kill her, he tried hard."
That's what you said. You can't make this shit up. The only thing obvious is that you you realized you were wrong. Like I said, progress... but apparently that's going to stop since you're tired of fumbling around with your posts. This should have ended when Superman on panel says he tried to kill her, so I'm not sure why you kept arguing. I mean, you actually agreed with my original point (that he tried to kill her). Hilarious.
^ Basically, if Superman says something on-panel that utterly confirms an argument that causes Superman butt-hurt like, "And the truth is I wanted to kill him with my bare hands. And I tried. Oh, how I tried." or "Marvel's powers are based on magic. Toe-to-toe he has the advantage." ... somehow it doesn't count.
On-panel? Who cares. Clear plain English? Who cares. It's like a jobber aura. No, it's basically butt-hurt aura. Another of Superman's many powers.
Originally posted by cdtmWaah, waah.
Looks like Superman isn't the only dick.By messing him up, you mean knocking him out with sucker punches, or causing a bloody nose. So? That's not exactly a damning example of the magic weakness in action, considering Cap himself has been KOed via sucker punch before, and Supes has recieved similar or worse damage against character on Billy's level, who didn't have this magic amping. Hell, Russian Zod broke his jaw.. If Billy performed this feat, how many fanboys would be using that as proof to trump up the magic weakness, like you're trying to do now?
Messing him up in that Superman being punched by Superman wold already hurt a lot. A Superman with amped punches would hurt even more. I'm not trumping up the magic weakness, I'm just pointing out that you can't wishfully ignore it.
Originally posted by cdtmSo you've basically conceded that Diana's magical abilities and equipment are effective.
Wonder Woman's magic equipment is as much of a red herring as you're accusing me of making. More so, since I wasn't arguing the effectiveness of her equipment, but the effect of her fists.Lets see what I was responding to:
Doesn't look like you're talking about the magic lightning here. It looks like Allankles made a comment about Caps physical status against Supes, and you commented that KMC ignores Wonder Womans magic advantage because of her gender. Nice job calling KMC posters sexist, as well as biased (Your comment on Thor), btw.
Sorry you and Allankles only wanted to talk about their physicality. If anything is the red herring, it's that. Nobody's argued that Cap's muscles are magic = advantage. We've always talked about the magic that has consistently given Cap an advantage that Superman must work around: his lightning. You both want to divert attention away from what's been slapping Superman fans in the face for years onto a non-existent argument (Cap/WW's physicality is an advantage because it was made of magic, no it's not) so you don't have to confront the actual argument (Cap/WW can and have used magic against him).
Originally posted by cdtmGet over the Superman butt-hurt. Cap's magic is a major advantage. He's a magically charged Superman. A Kryptonite charged Superman would be a major advantage as well. Of course, you'd likely deny even that scenario. You're entitled to your own opinion but it's ignorant of comics.
As I proved, you're the one misrepresenting.Also, when has the magic lightning EVER knocked Superman out? In any continuity, comic or cartoon?
And I'm not denying it's a weakness. Only that it isn't the major game changer you're making it out to be. The charged punches don't seem to cause much extra damage (As depicted on panel, this is undeniable), and the magic lightning leaves Cap vulnerable to being pulled into his own attack, reverting him to Billy.
Again, Cap's magic is a major advantage that Superman has to deal around. It's a testament to Superman's tenacity, skill and experience that he doesn't get dominated on-panel. But to act like (oh... it doesn't really matter much as an advantage).
Yeah. Yeah it does matter. Enough with the excuses and deflections onto non-existent arguments. This is plain comic book fact.
^Yes let's cherry pick the quotes that suit us best and ignore everything else, that's what you do best now, kk.
Lets ignore the rest, On-panel? Who cares. Clear plain English? Who cares.
"I wanted him dead. I wanted him burn."
"And I wanted him to SUFFER FIRST".
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Like I said, he would have had to twist all the way around to deliver that shot. He could have hit her into the sun at any time like his original intent, but wanted to make her suffer. I'm just adding a cute tidbit.
Well, in his view, in the same panel he hit her to Earth he said he wanted to make her suffer. Stop trying to shit on the memories when you're the one who brought it up. I mean, your whole point now hinges on the memories.It's on its way to death. If she didn't stop him she'd have her face collapsed before she went into the sun. You don't make someone suffer by shooting a beam through their head.
I don't make anyone it seems... what?
Of course you grow bored of it, any point you had you changed it."so yes during the fight he didn't try to kill her"
"punched her back to earth and then really tried to kill her, he tried hard."
That's what you said. You can't make this shit up. The only thing obvious is that you you realized you were wrong. Like I said, progress... but apparently that's going to stop since you're tired of fumbling around with your posts. This should have ended when Superman on panel says he tried to kill her, so I'm not sure why you kept arguing. I mean, you actually agreed with my original point (that he tried to kill her). Hilarious.
You are adding nonesense. She cam at him he punched her directly, she went to earth it was the direction she came from when she started the attack...
Yes and his memories work fine with the fine. You just can't accept it, not my prob.
That's why he didn't shoot it through her head but burned her bones instead. I think you understand now.
I never change my stance, I never agreed with you on the matter, like you wish. You shouldn't make up sh!t honestly, read my posts and don't quote only the parts that suite you. My initial stance was and is:
"The fight with WW, he wanted to make her suffer not kill er out right, a big difference."
"He wanted to kill her but first he wanted to make her (Dommsday) suffer, so yes during the fight he didn't try to kill her, he would have killed her in the end, after he would finish the punishment."
You know, there is something like a timeline in my argument:
Make her suffer ----> then kill her. doh
I never said he wouldn't kill her in the end, just not outright.
So please, quote me correctly or don't quote me at all. That's cheap.
And now I'm really done, it's pointless. You can't change the mind of haters ^^.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankI can't believe I searched for this just to prove you wrong, h1, but here. It's clearly in his power set.
And yes, I'm fully aware that this was a sucker two punch.
That punch wasn't amped. Surely it was lightning around it but it wasn't amped. Do you know what amped means? Amped means amplified and amplify means to increase in amount or effectiveness. The punch did nothing to Superman and appeared even less than one his normal punches. I see no magic even affecting Superman vs. just the strength of the punch itself.
The writer/artist choose to show lightning as for the cool factor. I relate this to Thor sometimes being shown to hit with lightning around his hammer or his being. This doesn't mean the hammer was amped or more power was added as a result.
Originally posted by h1a8
That punch wasn't amped. Surely it was lightning around it but it wasn't amped. Do you know what amped means? Amped means amplified and amplify means to increase in amount or effectiveness. The punch did nothing to Superman and appeared even less than one his normal punches. I see no magic even affecting Superman vs. just the strength of the punch itself.The writer/artist choose to show lightning as for the cool factor. I relate this to Thor sometimes being shown to hit with lightning around his hammer or his being. This doesn't mean the hammer was amped or more power was added as a result.
And no one is arguing that the magic "weakness" or vulnerability to magic, that Superman has, gives Captain Marvel the advantage, should he use lightining or amped punches. But it isn't the auto win people want it to be. Superman can take some of this punishment, like he did with Thor. It's just that Superman is always holding back and when not, then he is above Billly.
CM without amped punches iow magic = Superman holding back
CM with magic > Superman holding back
CM with magic =< Superman all out.
I can't explain it better.
