Originally posted by carver9
Whos stronger, Doomsday or Superman?
Doomsday is a lot stronger than Superman.
Originally posted by rotiartEverytime CM has hit Superman, besides time CM koed Superman by a cheapshot, it did about the same damage that Superman done to him. Why do many people say they are always portrayed to be very very close to being evenly matched when they fight each other? That's because CM's shots on Superman always seem pretty much the same as Superman's shots on him. A 1.5 damage factor is HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT. This significance was never shown in comics and thus the true damage factor is less.
@hia8
You state comic fact cm punches is .5 to 1.5
And have fact to back it up.I challenge you to try. Do this with on panel narration stating those numbers for me and I'll take up your side of the argument.
Otherwise you are just pulling numbers you made up out of the air.
Writers use why's called... Creative license. Show that your on panel feats are not hyperbole or mistakes by artists. And meant as actual fact.
How's that for proof?
Originally posted by h1a8
Doomsday is a lot stronger than Superman.Everytime CM has hit Superman, besides time CM koed Superman by a cheapshot, it did about the same damage that Superman done to him. Why do many people say they are always portrayed to be very very close to being evenly matched when they fight each other? That's because CM's shots on Superman always seem pretty much the same as Superman's shots on him. A 1.5 damage factor is HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT. This significance was never shown in comics and thus the true damage factor is less.
How's that for proof?
Why is Doomsday stronger when he doesn't have a single lifting feat under his belt? You better not say he is stronger because of a fight that they have had because Captain Marvel and Superman fights doesn't turn out so great. Superman has admit that he can't win in a fist cuff against Marvel.
So why is Doomsday stronger?
Originally posted by h1a8
Doomsday is a lot stronger than Superman.Everytime CM has hit Superman, besides time CM koed Superman by a cheapshot, it did about the same damage that Superman done to him. Why do many people say they are always portrayed to be very very close to being evenly matched when they fight each other? That's because CM's shots on Superman always seem pretty much the same as Superman's shots on him. A 1.5 damage factor is HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT. This significance was never shown in comics and thus the true damage factor is less.
How's that for proof?
You just proved you make up stuff based on nothing.
Originally posted by h1a8One can't judge solely based on how characters fought each other, especially when speed wasn't even used. There are times characters are written down to other characters to portray adversity to create a story. Speedsters are caught not using their speed and being tagged by much slower moving enemies. That doesn't mean the slower moving enemy is really as fast. Is Deathstroke as fast as WW? What about Batman? We never seen CM vibrate through attacks nor be in 5 places around the enemy at once while fighting; so why assume that he can do this? Is it because Superman decided not to do those things to him? That isn't good logic.
On the contrary Id say its the other way around we cant judge based solely on feats..
Feats are useful to an extent, moreso when the said characters have never faced each other, but in this case, when the said characters have faced each other several times, and both characters have Vast superhuman strength and speed, but neither shown to be faster or stronger than the other on any occasion they fought, then feats become kind of moot.
Basically If there is a difference in Strength or Combat Speed, its too small to make a difference.
Originally posted by h1a8
Doomsday is a lot stronger than Superman.
Yep, and without the strength feats to back it up.. We know this simply from his encounters with Superman. Just like we know from Marvel/Supes encounters that they're equal in Strength and Combat Speed.
Originally posted by h1a8
Everytime CM has hit Superman, besides time CM koed Superman by a cheapshot, it did about the same damage that Superman done to him. Why do many people say they are always portrayed to be very very close to being evenly matched when they fight each other? That's because CM's shots on Superman always seem pretty much the same as Superman's shots on him.
If I recall the only time Marvel magically amped his fists when punching Supes was when he 2 shotted him.
On all other occasions when their Punches seemed equal, that was purely based on Strength and Durability.
Originally posted by carver9
Why is Doomsday stronger when he doesn't have a single lifting feat under his belt? You better not say he is stronger because of a fight that they have had because Captain Marvel and Superman fights doesn't turn out so great. Superman has admit that he can't win in a fist cuff against Marvel.So why is Doomsday stronger?
EXACTLY! Great Point.. Exactly the point I was trying to make, but I didn't come up with a good example like that 👆
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
On the contrary Id say its the other way around we cant judge based solely on feats..Feats are useful to an extent, moreso when the said characters have never faced each other, but in this case, when the said characters have faced each other several times, and both characters have Vast superhuman strength and speed, but neither shown to be faster or stronger than the other on any occasion they fought, then feats become kind of moot.
Basically If there is a difference in Strength or Combat Speed, its too small to make a difference.
Yep, and without the strength feats to back it up.. We know this simply from his encounters with Superman. Just like we know from Marvel/Supes encounters that they're equal in Strength and Combat Speed.
If I recall the only time Marvel magically amped his fists when punching Supes was when he 2 shotted him.
On all other occasions when their Punches seemed equal, that was purely based on Strength and Durability.
EXACTLY! Great Point.. Exactly the point I was trying to make, but I didn't come up with a good example like that 👆
👆
Originally posted by carver9
Why is Doomsday stronger when he doesn't have a single lifting feat under his belt? You better not say he is stronger because of a fight that they have had because Captain Marvel and Superman fights doesn't turn out so great. Superman has admit that he can't win in a fist cuff against Marvel.So why is Doomsday stronger?
Because DD overpowered Superman when they grappled. That's the reason why Mangog is stronger than Thor as well. Grappling is the key (not hitting each other). But who is arguing about strength? Superman clearly has other powers, more skill and experience, and is slightly faster in combat than CM. Thus he wins a majority.
Originally posted by carver9
Why is Doomsday stronger when he doesn't have a single lifting feat under his belt? You better not say he is stronger because of a fight that they have had because Captain Marvel and Superman fights doesn't turn out so great. Superman has admit that he can't win in a fist cuff against Marvel.So why is Doomsday stronger?
lifting feats are not the only way to determine strength.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Good fight. Can go either way. Supes if he can keep it ranged, Marvel if can can keep it toe to toe.
honestly if its ranged and marvel paces himself supes is going to get his ass kicked. THe shazam lighting bolts hurt. Captian marvel written properly should not get caught by supes and reverted by the lighting. this should really never happen. this reverting back to billy is just a weakness D.C comics has created for billy to make it interesting. Most heros have a weakness of some sort.
IF its a battle against heat vision and shazam lighting bolts id put my money on the lighting bolts. However the one advanateg of the heat vision is it can be directed and controled better.
Originally posted by zeel
honestly if its ranged and marvel paces himself supes is going to get his ass kicked. THe shazam lighting bolts hurt. Captian marvel written properly should not get caught by supes and reverted by the lighting. this should really never happen. this reverting back to billy is just a weakness D.C comics has created for billy to make it interesting. Most heros have a weakness of some sort.
The "weakness" was established back in the 70's, with Black Adam using his own lightning on Captain Marvel to revert him to Billy.
And it makes perfect sense for Caps own lighting to revert him.. It's what the lightning does. So really, the "weakness" was established with the characters creation.
As long as Cap has to get in close to Superman to use the lighting, getting caught in his own attack is a realistic possibility. Nothing hamfisted about it.
On the other hand, both Cap and Superman should really be faster then the lightning, so they should both be capable of dodging it. The only "safe" way to use the lightning, is if Supermans already on the verge of defeat.. Use it as a finishing attack.
Originally posted by h1a8
Because DD overpowered Superman when they grappled. That's the reason why Mangog is stronger than Thor as well. Grappling is the key (not hitting each other). But who is arguing about strength? Superman clearly has other powers, more skill and experience, and is slightly faster in combat than CM. Thus he wins a majority.
When did Superman and Doomsday grapple? Am I missing something? Post a scan of this grapple please. Doomsday doesn't grapple, he punch and kick. You have nothing proving that Doomsday is stronger than Superman.
Who is the strongest, Namor or Konvikt? Going by lifting feats, Spiderman is stronger than Kalibak. Going by lifting feats, Grundy punches shouldn't even tickle Hulk. Going by lifting feats Colossus should be stronger than Darkseid.
Now if we have seen these two battle and they are pretty even "while both holding back", then that basically outrule anything you have said for the past 5 pages unless you think Spiderman>>Darkseid.
Originally posted by h1a8
Because DD overpowered Superman when they grappled.
Wasn't there an arm wrestle between Marvel and Supes that neither won?? That would prove the same as DD overpowering Supes in a Grappling contest.
Oh and by the way, a weaker guy can out grapple a stronger guy. On the other hand it would be very unlikely a weaker guy could draw in an arm wrestle against a significantly stornger man.
Originally posted by carver9
When did Superman and Doomsday grapple? Am I missing something? Post a scan of this grapple please. Doomsday doesn't grapple, he punch and kick. You have nothing proving that Doomsday is stronger than Superman.Who is the strongest, Namor or Konvikt? Going by lifting feats, Spiderman is stronger than Kalibak. Going by lifting feats, Grundy punches shouldn't even tickle Hulk. Going by lifting feats Colossus should be stronger than Darkseid.
Now if we have seen these two battle and they are pretty even "while both holding back", then that basically outrule anything you have said for the past 5 pages unless you think Spiderman>>Darkseid.
I'm pretty sure they both locked hands and DD just simply overpowered Superman. Also DD broke Superman's arm very easily.
Originally posted by DARTH POWEREven though I believe Superman is stronger than CM (potential wise) I'm not even arguing the strength point. So why bring it up?
Wasn't there an arm wrestle between Marvel and Supes that neither won?? That would prove the same as DD overpowering Supes in a Grappling contest.Oh and by the way, a weaker guy can out grapple a stronger guy. On the other hand it would be very unlikely a weaker guy could draw in an arm wrestle against a significantly stornger man.
With that said, you are referring to skill of grappling and not strength of grappling. It is clear the writer wanted to show that DD was more powerful than Superman when they locked up and strained against each other and then having DD overcome and overpower Superman.
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm pretty sure they both locked hands and DD just simply overpowered Superman. Also DD broke Superman's arm very easily.
Zod broke Superman jaw with one blitz. Who is stronger, Zod or Superman? When die Doomsday overpower Superman? He beat him in q punching match but I want to see this overpower you keep mentioning. Show it to me.
Originally posted by h1a8
Even though I believe Superman is stronger than CM (potential wise) I'm not even arguing the strength point. So why bring it up?With that said, you are referring to skill of grappling and not strength of grappling. It is clear the writer wanted to show that DD was more powerful than Superman when they locked up and strained against each other and then having DD overcome and overpower Superman.
Why is it clear? Show me what makes this so clear please. If we go by feats, Superman is much stronger than Doomsday, so show me these strength feats that makes Doomsday stronger. Who's faster, Konvikt or Doomsday?
Originally posted by carver9
Why is it clear? Show me what makes this so clear please. If we go by feats, Superman is much stronger than Doomsday, so show me these strength feats that makes Doomsday stronger. Who's faster, Konvikt or Doomsday?
DD breaking Superman's arm is a strength feat. Stop ignoring my posts.
Doomsday is a lot faster than Konvikt.