Originally posted by ankur29
👆only the superman fanboys who don't see it
as for the thread CM wins 6/10
strength,durability,speed are too close to call
an all out SM vs an all out CM would be a great fight but still pretty stalemate unless CM begins using his magic mits
Has anyone ever seen a fully going all out captian marvel anyhow. Please dont bring up Kingdom come becasue he wasnt going all out there , even though he was fighting agressively. Only time i have seen him going all out was his fight against the specter and he was amped.
Originally posted by zeel
Has anyone ever seen a fully going all out captian marvel anyhow. Please dont bring up Kingdom come becasue he wasnt going all out there , even though he was fighting agressively. Only time i have seen him going all out was his fight against the specter and he was amped.
Towards the end of the pre crisis era, maybe.
In one Superman/Cap team up, Adam initially laughs off his blows, until they got out of a populated area, where Billy says he could finally stop holding back, hits him a few times, and Adams like "holy ####", and runs for his life. Then there's the time Sivana steals some of his power, and Cap hits him so hard the sound of the blow wakes up Shazam in the Rock of Eternity.
Post Crisis, I don't think it's ever happened, although he's still managed to do well against Adam and Superman. Although, that time the Gray Man body snatched him should count. A really good feat for MM, considering he took a real beating but didn't go down easy, and even managed to KO him via sucker punch after Gray Man relinquished possession, but MM didn't realize it.
As far as "imaginary stories" go, he was mind screwed by Brainiac during Justice and came at Superman with killing intent.
To be fair towards Superman, while it's true Cap has a far better record against Adam than Supes does, Superman also has a better performance against Eclipso.
As in, comparing Cap vs Eclipsed Superman to Superman vs Eclipsed Lar Gand. While I give Cap the benefit of the doubt in terms of holding back, the same benefit must go to Supes as well, and in Supermans case he had the wind knocked out of him and was suffocating on the moon. Plus, during that era of DC Daxamites were constantly said to be even stronger than Superman, so theoretically Supes had a tougher opponent.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Good fight. Can go either way. Supes if he can keep it ranged, Marvel if can can keep it toe to toe.
To be fair let's say that every blow from CM's magical amp fists (assuming he would do so in this battle) gives 1.5 more damage than what Superman's blows gives to CM.
Now Superman being more skilled, slightly faster in combat, and more experienced should give him a 3:2 or more hit ratio against CM. In other words, for every two hits CM lands Superman would land 3. Thus the damage factors cancel out. Now add in Superman's HV which will add to the damage he is doing and his freeze breath which can be used to slow down CM so that Superman can land more hits (or defend against CM's blows more easily). This can give Superman an overwhelming hit ratio against CM to easily give him the majority in a fight against him.
Originally posted by h1a8
To be fair let's say that every blow from CM's magical amp fists (assuming he would do so in this battle)
Well we are going to have to assume each character uses all the abilities at their disposal. Otherwise we could assume SM would not use his Heat Vision, and that would prove nothing really.
Originally posted by h1a8
Now Superman being more skilled, slightly faster in combat, and more experienced should give him a 3:2 or more hit ratio against CM. In other words, for every two hits CM lands Superman would land 3.
I dnt buy this.. Supes has a Combat Speed advantage based on what? Can you give me a fight between these 2 where Supes has landed more punches than Marvel due to superior speed.
And I dnt care about speed feats (much).. They are useful to an extent but not the all and end all. End of the day just because we've seen more speed feats from Supes does not necessarily mean Marvel could not achieve those same feats.
And it doesn't matter really, because in the end, whenever they have fought, Supes has never shown any kind of Speed (or Strength) advantage over Marvel. So his superior feats (in those categories) become kind of moot.
Originally posted by h1a8Imaginative... but the quantifications are... arbitrary, to say the least.
To be fair let's say that every blow from CM's magical amp fists (assuming he would do so in this battle) gives 1.5 more damage than what Superman's blows gives to CM.Now Superman being more skilled, slightly faster in combat, and more experienced should give him a 3:2 or more hit ratio against CM. In other words, for every two hits CM lands Superman would land 3. Thus the damage factors cancel out. Now add in Superman's HV which will add to the damage he is doing and his freeze breath which can be used to slow down CM so that Superman can land more hits (or defend against CM's blows more easily). This can give Superman an overwhelming hit ratio against CM to easily give him the majority in a fight against him.
Originally posted by zeel
Has anyone ever seen a fully going all out captian marvel anyhow. Please dont bring up Kingdom come becasue he wasnt going all out there , even though he was fighting agressively. Only time i have seen him going all out was his fight against the specter and he was amped.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERI dnt buy this.. Supes has a Combat Speed advantage based on what? Can you give me a fight between these 2 where Supes has landed more punches than Marvel due to superior speed.
And I dnt care about speed feats (much).. They are useful to an extent but not the all and end all. End of the day just because we've seen more speed feats from Supes does not necessarily mean Marvel could not achieve those same feats.
And it doesn't matter really, because in the end, whenever they have fought, Supes has never shown any kind of Speed (or Strength) advantage over Marvel. So his superior feats (in those categories) become kind of moot.
This is True!!
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Imaginative... but the quantifications are... arbitrary, to say the least.
Originally posted by DARTH POWEROf course I assume this, why you think I talked about CM's magical amped fists? I don't really understand what you are trying to say to be honest. 🙁
Well we are going to have to assume each character uses all the abilities at their disposal. Otherwise we could assume SM would not use his Heat Vision, and that would prove nothing really.
One can't judge solely based on how characters fought each other, especially when speed wasn't even used. There are times characters are written down to other characters to portray adversity to create a story. Speedsters are caught not using their speed and being tagged by much slower moving enemies. That doesn't mean the slower moving enemy is really as fast. Is Deathstroke as fast as WW? What about Batman? We never seen CM vibrate through attacks nor be in 5 places around the enemy at once while fighting; so why assume that he can do this? Is it because Superman decided not to do those things to him? That isn't good logic.
I dnt buy this.. Supes has a Combat Speed advantage based on what? Can you give me a fight between these 2 where Supes has landed more punches than Marvel due to superior speed.And I dnt care about speed feats (much).. They are useful to an extent but not the all and end all. End of the day just because we've seen more speed feats from Supes does not necessarily mean Marvel could not achieve those same feats.
And it doesn't matter really, because in the end, whenever they have fought, Supes has never shown any kind of Speed (or Strength) advantage over Marvel. So his superior feats (in those categories) become kind of moot.
Originally posted by rotiart
You have... subjective reasoning.
We all do to a certain degree. I'll tell you this. I'm subjectively bias to Speed and feats I can calculate (contradiction). Trust me, I'm not bias towards a certain character or company. It seems that way mostly because the character's I support have speed. I don't go by actual fights in the comic unless a character was performing at their best at least some of the time. I don't try to imagine how the fight will go in a comic, for that will defeat the purpose of a forum fight and debating. I try to imagine the two character's existing in reality but in a fictional universe where they both fight at their best ability (and not according to how the writer want's the story to go having characters fight stupidly to create a story).
With that said, if CM had the same powers and skill as Superman but had magical amped fists included then I would give him the majority. So I'm being objective in this fight and those who are claiming 5/10 or a majority for CM are using subjective reasoning. See how I broke the fight down using details. The lack of details imply subjective reasoning. Not me bro.
@hia8
You state comic fact cm punches is .5 to 1.5
And have fact to back it up.
I challenge you to try. Do this with on panel narration stating those numbers for me and I'll take up your side of the argument.
Otherwise you are just pulling numbers you made up out of the air.
Writers use why's called... Creative license. Show that your on panel feats are not hyperbole or mistakes by artists. And meant as actual fact.