The only thing that makes me second guess myself is in ESB Palps tells Vader, "He could destroy us." and then Vader tells Luke, "You can destroy the Emporer, he has forseen it." But then i think that was ANAKIN trying to get his son to go with him. Maybe he knew what would happen in the end of ROTJ and he was just trying to side-step it....i dont know.....but i still keep with my original point......
i think vader's plan was to allow luke to kill the emporer, based on a misunderstanding...an intentional 'sin of omission' on the emporer's part.
i believe it was impossible for luke to do it...not like everyone planned anyway.
and as far as vader's ambitions...he wasnt quite up to speed with palps'
plans from what i've seen in the OT. one simple line tells me that
"he will come to me?". palps is the giver of plans, visions, and information...
where vader is on a 'need to know' basis.
i believe that palps suspected that vader's son could bring anakin
back to the good side and in turn destroy the sith by reminding anakin
of his true identity and his destiny. i believe he kept the details away from
vader and simply said "he could destroy us", to appeal to vader's love for power. it would make sense for him to do so, as vader is still evil, and wants to keep his power.
so vader secretly offers up the possability of sparing luke AND taking absolute power in the sith, based on his misunderstanding of palp's vision.
"you can destroy the emporer! he has forseen this"
well...as far as i can tell palps visions are quite clear right down to the last detail. how could he not suspect the return of anakin? of coarse he did.
"i wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear lord vader..."
so yeah, i think palps forsaw the end of RotJ and manipulated vader in an attempt to not only avoid his fate, but gain a new apprentice...AND get rid
of his untrustworthy half-a-man apprentice.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
OK Ush, if you wanna quote people, how bout this......"Remember OB1, if the prophecy is true, then only your apprentice can bring the force, BACK in to balance." Key word...."BACK" so wy say "back into balance" if its not already unbalanced? Sorry Ush, but the fact is that the force is not in balance in Ep2...so there's no way it can be in balance in Ep3..... 😉 .....oh, btw...."the darkside clouds EVEYTHING.", Yoda.....that sounds pretty onesided to me, and if something is one sided, thats means unbalanced.
Pfft! This only takes a moderate amount of logic to understand. Before you try and be so smug- do your research.
The Prophecy states the Force WILL BECOME unbalanced. And if it does, the Chosen One can restore it. Mace Windu is stating that if the Prophecy is correcxt, ther force will become unbalanced, and the Chosen One will restore it. He does not say it is certain that the Oprhecy is so. Just that if it is, they need him.
Proof for this? GL's own words. GL has directly stated that the Council knows that the Balance is slipping and will slip further, as said in the Orophecy, but the Prophecy also says the Balance can be latr restored.
And I will remind you that George Lucas has also directly stated that the Force does not go out of balance until AFTER Anakin is taken over by dark forces. This does not happen until the end of Episode III.
So before you start being so triumphant... do some damn research. You are wrong on this one.
Hey Ush, could you provide an article, or link that would help enlighten me as to Lucas' opinion?
Because, IMHO, it just seems like the force is already out of balance in favor of the darkside. If it wasn't, how would Sidious be able to lie to the Jedi council face to face without their knowledge? How would the clones have been ordered without the Jedi knowing?
First off, watch you tounge with me boy. And i just watched the entire OT Bonus DVD, and NOWHERE did i hear him say that. Im going off WHAT WAS SAID, not something that i wanted to just imply. He said BACK into balance....no more, no less.
"I thnk its time we inform the senate that our ability to use the force has diminished." "only the dark lord of the sith knows of our WEAKNESS" How the hell is that not unbalanced? Im sorry Ushm but is in fact you who are wrong.
Ya know, ive noticed something here. Everytime theres a debate and one side is wrong, once they realize that they are wrong, theyre so damn quick to yell out "CONFIRMED" or "GL SAID SO". Its merely a way to try to save face, and win an argument. Hell, ill admit ive done it. Its just petty to me. So find something more solid than, "GL said so" and post it on here, or a link, or something.....
MY RESPONSE
Originally posted by ajrocksteady
Any possibility that Sidious gains more power after Anakin turns to the darkside? Hence he is able to defeat Yoda....? hmmmmmmm. A thought........anyone?
Good point, but I don't think so, because I think that Anakan was already apart of the dark side at the start of 3, but I think Sidious simply beats Yoda because either Yoda's old and he can't be arsed, and plus Yoda is a small green shit who just aimlessly jumps everywhere and does nothing.
Error in lightsabers.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
First off, watch you tounge with me boy. And i just watched the entire OT Bonus DVD, and NOWHERE did i hear him say that. Im going off WHAT WAS SAID, not something that i wanted to just imply. He said BACK into balance....no more, no less."I thnk its time we inform the senate that our ability to use the force has diminished." "only the dark lord of the sith knows of our WEAKNESS" How the hell is that not unbalanced? Im sorry Ushm but is in fact you who are wrong.
Ya know, ive noticed something here. Everytime theres a debate and one side is wrong, once they realize that they are wrong, theyre so damn quick to yell out "CONFIRMED" or "GL SAID SO". Its merely a way to try to save face, and win an argument. Hell, ill admit ive done it. Its just petty to me. So find something more solid than, "GL said so" and post it on here, or a link, or something.....
I hope you realize in the picture of the lightsabers, you've missed out Yoda's small lightsabers, and Count Dooku's bent lightsaber as well.
^^^^ i hope you realize that i didnt make that pic and any errors in said pic are out of my control. Im not gonna go spend $200 on photoshop so i can change someone else's picture. And the reason it dosnt have Yoda's or Dooku's, is because it was released after TPM.....logic man, logic.....
But if anyone wants to fix it, feel free....you'll also notice that Mace's name is on the wrong saber.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
^^^^ i hope you realize that i didnt make that pic and any errors in said pic are out of my control. Im not gonna go spend $200 on photoshop so i can change someone else's picture. And the reason it dosnt have Yoda's or Dooku's, is because it was released after TPM.....logic man, logic.....But if anyone wants to fix it, feel free....you'll also notice that Mace's name is on the wrong saber.
All right fair enough but you said that the pictures were released after Episode I, if that's true then how do you know what Mace's lightsaber was because I don't think you saw Mace's lightsaber in Episode I?