The Force Theory: Discussion Thread

Interesting ideas whirling around in here...

I was thinking... maybe we should put not the Force into context, but the users of the Force. The Force itself has a flipside, to be sure. But the element itself I don't think is good or evil. Its uses and the intent behind such uses become good or evil. That said, if balance is the use of the Force that is harmless, the reverse would be imbalance, the use of the Force causing harm, directly or indirectly.

So the idea of imbalance isn't the existance of evil; evil is something that has to exist for good to be detereminable. The idea of imbalance is the existance of the Sith, the opposing team to the Jedi, who (generally) represent order. It -is- called a Jedi Order, isn't it? (Word play there... )

Now, we have this notion of power. What is power? It is the ability and intent to do something according to your will. It is the ability to change minds, or cause storms, or even ground your kids to their rooms. We could easily say, for the sake of argument, that the Dark Side (tm) is stronger. Certainly it appears that way. But what is the end to which this power is a means? Evil is self-destructive. It does not create lasting institutions... no empires, no Orders... certainly no semblances of trust. Therefore it is self-defeating. The power that can be attributed to the Light Side of the Force, the one that regards balance and order, is a power of making lasting achievements. It can only be defeated by stagnation, I suppose. Perhaps the imbalance of the Force was not due to the reemergance of the Sith, certainly since there were only two Sith in existance, working secretly. In the past, whole legions of Dark Jedi existed. And no prodigy was born then. Soooo... The imbalance must have come about through the stagnation of the Jedi Order. Perhaps their teachings had failed in some attempt, or did not adapt to the change or temperment of the times.

Errr...

No. Sorry,. you people are WAY overcomplicating.

The imbalance comes from one thing alone- the Sith have returned.

When they are gone, the imbalance is gone.

Simple as that!

perhaps janus is overcomplicating, but i hardly see it as everyone.

The force si the force, no matter how you use it. Whether it is the light side or the dark side depends on whether it is used for good or evil

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Interesting ideas whirling around in here...

I was thinking... maybe we should put not the Force into context, but the users of the Force. The Force itself has a flipside, to be sure. But the element itself I don't think is good or evil. Its uses and the intent behind such uses become good or evil. That said, if balance is the use of the Force that is harmless, the reverse would be imbalance, the use of the Force causing harm, directly or indirectly.

Now THAT I can relate to.... ✅

The rest however I think is a bit of an overcomplication. However, seeing as how this is basically all philosphy at its core, this debate can (and will) go on for ages.

WOW! I started a really intense thread? 😑

Originally posted by Ushgarak
The imbalance comes from one thing alone- the Sith have returned.

When they are gone, the imbalance is gone.

Simple as that!

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, that is just you backtracking to change the focus of what I was saying. That quote was not given in support of the main point. I gave it to counter YOUR idea that the Force was already unbalanced by the time of the Mace/Palpatine fight. That quote proves, as far as GL is concerned, that it was not.

So as the Force is not yet unbalanced, the Prophecy has not yet become a certainty, and so it is not necessary for it to be the Chosen One that kills Palps.

As soon as that unbalance has occured, only THEN is the Chosen One actually needed.

first you say that the the force is still balanced before anakin turns, that
only after he turns the force is out of balance and thus the prophecy of the "one who will bring balance".

and now you say it was unbalanced when the sith arive. that would mean it was unbalanced for the entire PT, when the sith 'reveal' themselves and start to take over....which is exactly what i argued.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=325010&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=2

I think the Force is actually just exactly that, the Force. It's what you do with your connection that determines whether the dark or the light side has the upper hand. The Jedi have long since used the Force as a guiding hand in keeping peace in the galaxy. The Sith on the other hand have fully tapped into the Force and used it as a tool to gain power. In my opinion the dark side is the stronger of the 2, simply because it's the side that the Force is used to its fullest potential.

Originally posted by PVS
first you say that the the force is still balanced before anakin turns, that
only after he turns the force is out of balance and thus the prophecy of the "one who will bring balance".

and now you say it was unbalanced when the sith arive. that would mean it was unbalanced for the entire PT, when the sith 'reveal' themselves and start to take over....which is exactly what i argued.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=325010&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=2

No! I did NOT say that, so please do not misquote me.

I said the Sith CAUSE THE IMBALANCE. Else the Force would always have been imbalanced because the Sith were never dead.

When the Sith return and destroy the Jedi... bye bye balance.

When the Sith are then destroyed... return of balance.

Actually the Force goes out of balance with the appearance of the Sith. They dont have to defeat the Jedi for the balance to shift.

Prove it. GL says otherwise.

Oki-dokey, I'll be back with a quote for you.

Well there's this one

from DARTH RASTA'S INTERVIEW WITH
GEORGE LUCAS.

BY STEPHEN "RASTA" MULLINS

George: Let me explain briefly. If good and evil are mixed things become blurred - there is nothing between good and evil, everything is grey. In each of us we have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything. It is dangerous to lose this. In The Phantom Menace one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of The Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that The Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, ]but presently it is being eroded by dark forces. All of this shall be explained in Episode 2, so I can't say any more!

there you go...

"the dark side clouds everything"
"our ability to use the force has diminished"

no jedi had to die for the balance to shift.

OMFG its like the Matrix forum all over again - what did Neo really mean when he said ''Woah''!?!? Is it a code for secret entrance into Zion?! Or is it the riddle that solves ALL matrix questions.

Sheesh, everyone!

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No! I did NOT say that, so please do not misquote me.

I said the Sith CAUSE THE IMBALANCE. Else the Force would always have been imbalanced because the Sith were never dead.

When the Sith return and destroy the Jedi... bye bye balance.

When the Sith are then destroyed... return of balance.

Ush, Im trying to understand this, so dont go all ''you are ignorant'' on my ass, okay? I am NOT a star wars expert, thats why im trying to udnerstand this -

You said...

''Sith CAUSE THE IMBALANCE. Else the Force would always have been imbalanced because the Sith were never dead.''

but then a line down you said

When the Sith are then destroyed... return of balance.

Thats the bit that made no sense to me. If the sith were never dead (like they warent) and they cause inbalance, like you said, and when they are destroyed (like you said again) is when the balance in the force returns, then....by that there was never any balance.

Explain, please, and play nice, i dont have to put up with 'you have no logic and are ignorant' crap. nono

war

Technically speaking defeating the Sith would have had the same effect, becausempresumably that is what happened last time, a millenia ago.

Killing them just makes it permanent.

But Lucas makes the point clear- the Sith destroy the Balance during the course of the films, the Balance is restored when Anakin kills the Emperor. Without the Sith, the imbalance cannot endure. But the Prequel films tell of how the Sith create the imbalance in the first place- it wasn;t just by existing, but only in existing can it be prolonged.

JP... your quote proves me right.

"The Sith are going to destroy this balance"

There. Directly. Canonincal. Going to destroy. Yes, it is being eroded, The process has begun. But directly GL says that it has not been done yet.

Thanks for proving me right.

Incidentally, I have no ideawho Darth Rasta is, and what he has claimed to do, but that quote is actually from an interview with Japanese magazine 'Cut'.

Can you BE any more full of it? Balance is BALANCE.......and once it starts to erode its OUT OF BALANCE!!! Go back to English class. I knew you'd twist that to your advantage. 🙄

Jesus, JP. How much more clear does GL have to be?

"The Sith are going to destroy this balance"

You just quoted him saying that. 'Going to' FUTURE TENSE.

Anyone who reads that and seriously thinks it is already happened has rocks in their head.

The process has started. It is not complete. That is what GL has said. That's the end of it!

Well GOD, there is another quote which I am looking for that further proves my point. You can twist the above quote to suit your purposes, but you're wrong.