So how does Pluto relates with Earth again? Have you two done your homework?
To be honest Superman could move Pluto without the sundip. If him and a few friends can move the moon he can certainly move the smaller Pluto. The main point of the feat is not only is Superman moving warworld but he is moving it with its thrusters at full power. Thrusters drawing energy from Imperiex's lifeforce. You know the guy who ate a few galaxies.
"To be honest Superman could move Pluto without the sundip. If him and a few friends can move the moon he can certainly move the smaller Pluto. The main point of the feat is not only is Superman moving warworld but he is moving it with its thrusters at full power."
He already tried to move the Earth without a boost and didnt suceeded on it.
Post crisis so far we have seen he "only" manages to do an actual planet moving feat with the sundip. The point however is that those two even claim he has done better than that, like wer are still stucked in pre crisis.
olympian those two are superman fanboys to the max which is also why they are calling you one. Don't let them get to you as far as their concerned only the really crazy crap supes does counts and all other stuff doesn't matter. When people don't really read the maga or even have an intest in japnimation it's too hard to talk to them.
Originally posted by jasofisc
olympian those two are superman fanboys to the max which is also why they are calling you one. Don't let them get to you as far as their concerned only the really crazy crap supes does counts and all other stuff doesn't matter. When people don't really read the maga or even have an intest in japnimation it's too hard to talk to them.
Lol, it's funny that you said that. I'm no Superman fanboy. This is my first time taking a look at Superman in MONTHS, I lost interest a while back but just gained interest in him again. And how do you know I don't like anime? I look at a lot of anime's, YuYu Hakusho, Naruto, One Peice, DBZ, etc. Don't try to tell me what I like because I like anime a lot. Plus I've read all of the DBZ manga. Get off of olympian's nuts.
Originally posted by olympian
"Olympian is full of shit. Post Crisis Superman lifted 20 tons with one hand, Goku more than likely wouldn't be able to lift more than 10 tons with one hand"He was moving boulders as a kid. And he sure never proven strong enough to go toe to toe with beings who can blow up planets. Has he?
*reads manga* oww he has! Damn!
The only one full of shit its you who dont back up what you -claim-. Show me post crisis Superman moving planets bigger than Earth and the quote of his HV being hotter than hundred of suns.
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"Also, when someone is a fanboy like you it's hard to admit that you're wrong, huh?"
A fanboy is someone who exagerattes what a character does. Rings any bell? Show me the examples you claimed above. Back up or leave debating to the grownups.
Altho i can already tell you wont. Know why? Because they dont exist. Anyone who has read Superman since crisis knows this. You appearantly dont.
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"I don't really give a **** about energy attacks"
So what the characters can do you dont give a shit about? Are you using your own versions of the characters then? L.o.L.
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"Goku has more Ki but that still doesn't make him stronger."
The ki is the very reason it makes him strong enough and more powerful. Thats all you need to take a win against Superman, among others.
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"man i wish this wasn't a forum, rather a room full of people because they'd really shut up, face to face, people are chicken shit when confronted... fcuking internet wanks! (yes refering to fan boy shit face olympenis!)"
Its spelled: "Olympians"
I can tell you wouldnt do good even face to face. Think about it. You do badly here and expect to do better when -everyone- can see your poker face? nah nah.
So how does Pluto relates with Earth again? Have you two done your homework?
Ki attacks don't relate to PHYSICAL strength (not that you know what that is) & you're the fanboy here. As for your ''Superman has never fought beings who can destroy entire planets.'' comment. Ever heard of Doomsday? Darkseid? Green Lantern (not that he's fought him)? Those are people who give earth shattering blows. And I will most certainly find pictures to pwn you again, you just never seem to give up. Also, look at the Superman IV movie, he clearly moves a planet & at the end of all the Superman movies he's seen flying in space. Also, Superman has learned Kryptonian martial arts which could be even more powerful than King Kai's training. As for the Hulk, he once held a planet's CORE inside of his hand, too bad Goku can't do that. 😆 And when Goku was a kid, he was pushing small boulders, Clark was lifting cars & trackers as a kid which more than likely weigh more than those small boulders that Goku lifted as a kid. Ah man, this ''debate'' brings a tear to my eye from the laughter. 😆 But I will CERTAINLY get pictures by tomorrow if I come on to the forum.
ok I think your confusing post crisis superman with pre-crisis superman. sorry if I miss judged you but you do sound like superman fanboy with the whole superman can lift plants crap. But if you are meaning pre-crisis (which the movie superman is based off) then i'm really sorry about the fanboy comment but if you do mean post-crisis then I only mean to re-enforce my fanboy statement. By the way PIS feats don't count so don't try to show them a Charater's power level is the medium between the high and low showings not just the high.
"olympian those two are superman fanboys to the max which is also why they are calling you one"
Anyone can tell that they...exageratte a BIT. Just a BIT.
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"Lol, it's funny that you said that. I'm no Superman fanboy. This is my first time taking a look at Superman in MONTHS, I lost interest a while back but just gained interest in him again. And how do you know I don't like anime?"
Then enlight us how you show up -claiming- evidence as truth about a Superman you havent read since long periods of time?
As if you like anime or not, it doesnt matter. You can hate for all i care. You just have to know what you are talking about. At least the basics. And so far you didnt showed it, on the contrary. And more amazingly not even with the whole collection at hand.
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"Ki attacks don't relate to PHYSICAL strength"
Ki its everything that is about power and strength in the DB universe. Thats -why- when mere humans lended theyr Ki to help against Buu they all got weaker.
You knew that, didnt you?
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''Superman has never fought beings who can destroy entire planets.'' comment. Ever heard of Doomsday? Darkseid? Green Lantern (not that he's fought him)?
Doomsday destroyed a planet? Where? killing -life- on a planet, yes. Destroying a planet? No.
Darkseid hasent done jack shit post crisis -in continuity- of revelance. Lately he has been beaten left and right. Pre crisis yes he did. But this isent pre crisis anymore.
And your not even sure if Superman and Green Latern have fought post crisis? Then why you throw it in the debate, if your not sure?
So much for your -non- debating skills.
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"And I will most certainly find pictures to pwn you again, you just never seem to give up"
Ah. You *will* find it. Meaning you cant find as of now, or as of days since we have been doing this. Im still waiting for the ones i asked. Not that i ever expect them to show up.
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"ook at the Superman IV movie, he clearly moves a planet & at the end of all the Superman movies he's seen flying in space."
What. The. Heck?
This is comics, kid. Post crisis comics. Not movies or cartoons. Reason why are arent using movies or the cartoon either for the other side and the Manga only.
If you want to discuss movies, go to the movies section.
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"As for the Hulk, he once held a planet's CORE inside of his hand, too bad Goku can't do that"
He doesnt need to. He can just blast it. You seem to fail to understand the simple notion.
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"Also, Superman has learned Kryptonian martial arts which could be even more powerful than King Kai's training"
Back it up. He hasent show martial arts on the level of DB. Not many "superheroes" do. Superman only even started training with speedblitz for two issues under Mongul Jr -recently- and the other side does it since they wer kids.
So show how better he is. After all you -claimed- he was better. Another one i dont ever see the day. Pathetic.
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"Clark was lifting cars & trackers as a kid which more than likely weigh more than those small boulders that Goku lifted as a kid."
No wonder you dont understand the relation between Pluto and Earth in size 😖hifty:
Goku has lifted a car as a kid. Not too shabby eh? And how could you have missed this if you said you read all the manga?
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"this ''debate'' brings a tear to my eye from the laughter."
It definatly does 😂
So come along when you have some evidence. And start with the first two i gave plus the homework. Your late on that.
"Hulk lose to superman, Goku isn't in this fight because he wasn't originally in this fight, fan boys brought him into this again... (olympian)"
Thats suposse to be to me?
I suggest you to read the pages before and see who brough Goku to the debate.
Calling out someone works when that someone has the initial blame.
Second if you dont want Goku to be mentioned, then spread the word to take it off the poll. Thor as well. Making a poll that has characters that have nothing to do with the original thread ideia its asking to have comparations.
Back it up. He hasent show martial arts on the level of DB. Not many "superheroes" do. Superman only even started training with speedblitz for two issues under Mongul Jr -recently- and the other side does it since they wer kids.
Goku doesn't show DB levels of martial arts training in Z. As soon as skill becomes less important than raw power Goku and the others stopped fighting like martial artists. In Dragonball Z they just flail at each other with super fast punches and kicks.
Also Just how good is his martial arts training. The only one who appears to of actually taught Goku any physical moves is Grampa Gohan. Neither Roshi, Kami or King Kai actually involved teaching Goku physical attacks.
Skill isn't particularly important in Dragonballz. Just energy techniques. Some of the Dragonball villains are likely better martial artist than Freeza or the androids. Power is all the makes the difference. It's not like Goku is Batman.
Darkseid hasent done jack shit post crisis -in continuity- of revelance. Lately he has been beaten left and right. Pre crisis yes he did. But this isent pre crisis anymore.
Really. You do realise that Darkseids most recent defeats were against Superman? You know the guy we're arguing about? I mean its not like
any of the DBZ villains have an impressive list of victories once they run into the Z fighters.
And your not even sure if Superman and Green Latern have fought post crisis? Then why you throw it in the debate, if your not sure?
When Kyle Ranier and Superman fought Kyle fired a full powered blast and Superman just waded through it. He was roughed up a bit but thats it.
Finally lets go into the facts
Strength: Goku has no feats of strength approaching Superman's level. Saying what he could lift as a child and then saying he must be infinitely stronger now doesn't wash. We've seen Goku strain lifting weights that Superman wouldn't even notice.
Resistance: Again Superman. Goku has never done anything to show he has resistance in Supermans league.
Speed: Goku has never exhibited faster than light travel outside of Instant translocation. Which he almost never uses in combat.
Firepower. Supermans heat vision has supposedly no limit to how hot it can get and it's been shown he can widen it out to planetary radius. I'll give this to Goku as he has a wider range of energy attacks.
Its worth noting that Goku doesn't use world busting energy attacks alot in combat. When fighting Cell, Cell panics when Goku charges up a planet busting Kamehameha showing that all the previous attacks are not of that level.
"Goku doesn't show DB levels of martial arts training in Z. As soon as skill becomes less important than raw power Goku and the others stopped fighting like martial artists. In Dragonball Z they just flail at each other with super fast punches and kicks."
Your probably going by how they played the figths in the anime. In the Manga they always show skill. Sure theres more revelance on power from some point in the saga, but the skill doesnt take vacations. You have a link with the 40ish Volumes in this thread. Check it.
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"Also Just how good is his martial arts training. The only one who appears to of actually taught Goku any physical moves is Grampa Gohan. Neither Roshi, Kami or King Kai actually involved teaching Goku physical attacks."
King Kai didnt teached him any physical attacks? Really? What is the Kayoken then? Thats one example only.
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"Skill isn't particularly important in Dragonballz. Just energy techniques"
No. Power takes more revelance but its still there. While in the begining was the opposite because they werent as powerful.
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"Really. You do realise that Darkseids most recent defeats were against Superman? You know the guy we're arguing about?"
Sure i know. Its someone who had his eyes shut by Superman in "Apokolips Now", who got punked right in Austen`s first issue at "actions" and who lost to Rayker and Orion. A guy that pre crisis would pimp slap all of them combined. Without much effort.
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"I mean its not like any of the DBZ villains have an impressive list of victories once they run into the Z fighters."
Wich means they have a lasting impressive feeling with no low showings, maybe?
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"When Kyle Ranier and Superman fought Kyle fired a full powered blast and Superman just waded through it. He was roughed up a bit but thats it."
Im not asking if they fought. Im asking if he (the poster who brought it up) is not even sure, if they have fought, why is he bringing it up? Like it would automatically work as evidence.
And you forgot Superman not doing good against a certain Green Lantern when they wer figthing a certain yellow fear monster.
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About the rest:
"Strength: Goku has no feats of strength approaching Superman's level. Saying what he could lift as a child and then saying he must be infinitely stronger now doesn't wash. We've seen Goku strain lifting weights that Superman wouldn't even notice."
I feel like i have to repit myself all the time. Strenght and power are related to Ki, in the Dragonball universe. They wade thro mountains punching at each other. The physicall fight between Freeza and Goku alone was wasting how much of Namek? Exactly.
Does Goku have better -lifting- feats than Superman? No, of course not. But luckly lifting weights isent the only way to determine how strong someone is.
You consider Thanos strong? How many lifting weights does he have. Name them.
After you have the answer, you will find yourself thinking why is he considered to be that strong. And you will know the why.
Its not that difficult to get. If lifting was the only way to gauge strenght, Juggernaut wouldnt be in the same league as Hulk and others. And Thanos wouldnt be even in the same league as Spiderman, considering the last as -alot- more examples.
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"Resistance: Again Superman. Goku has never done anything to show he has resistance in Supermans league."
Agreed. Wich is why the speedlitz style of figthing will come handy.
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"Firepower. Supermans heat vision has supposedly no limit to how hot it can get and it's been shown he can widen it out to planetary radius. I'll give this to Goku as he has a wider range of energy attacks."
Wider and better. Until i see Superman destroying a planet with HV only, the "heating the planets surface" doesnt show as destructive/impressive as the other examples.
Will it make damage if connected to Goku? Course it will.
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"Its worth noting that Goku doesn't use world busting energy attacks alot in combat. When fighting Cell, Cell panics when Goku charges up a planet busting Kamehameha showing that all the previous attacks are not of that level."
No one is saying he does. Just that he can use it when he wants to, and more than one person has in DB. And that powerwise in that regard, Supes its still below from what we`ve seen so far.
King Kai didnt teached him any physical attacks? Really? What is the Kayoken then? Thats one example only.
Its a power up technique. Its not a physical combat technique. It makes Goku faster and stronger.
And you forgot Superman not doing good against a certain Green Lantern when they wer figthing a certain yellow fear monster.
In all fairness Superman wasn't expecting for John to attack him like that. Need I bring up the time Krillin tagged Goku with a rock unawares? That and Vegeta has dropped Goku with a blow while he was looking the other way.
I feel like i have to repit myself all the time. Strenght and power are related to Ki, in the Dragonball universe. They wade thro mountains punching at each other. The physicall fight between Freeza and Goku alone was wasting how much of Namek? Exactly.
Aside from few mountains and Islands they threw each other through, not much until Freeza fired his death ball at the planet. Again Superman has shown strength enough to knock people half way across the solar system. Goku's punches have never knocked anyone more than a few miles.
Does Goku have better -lifting- feats than Superman? No, of course not. But luckly lifting weights isent the only way to determine how strong someone is.You consider Thanos strong? How many lifting weights does he have. Name them.
After you have the answer, you will find yourself thinking why is he considered to be that strong. And you will know the why.
Its not that difficult to get. If lifting was the only way to gauge strenght, Juggernaut wouldnt be in the same league as Hulk and others. And Thanos wouldnt be even in the same league as Spiderman, considering the last as -alot- more examples.
Thanos and the Jugernaut have both faught people who do have great lifting feats. By comparing their strength to those they fought. For example Thanos physically over powers the hulk from that we can see that he stronger. If Goku had fought anyone who's strength level is known I'd say fair enough.
Goku has shown near limits in his strangth. The small mountain pushing feat in the Kid Buu battle was near SS2 Goku's maximum. The same feat would not tax Superman which is why I assume Goku is the weaker of the two
No one is saying he does. Just that he can use it when he wants to, and more than one person has in DB. And that powerwise in that regard, Supes its still below from what we`ve seen so far.
I agree Goku's advantage over Superman is his higher level energy manipulation. Superman is still vastly physically superior to Goku. Which is why I give him the edge in this fight.
ok i am no fan boy but who care's that supe can move a planet or goku has ki it is clear as day i am a dbz fan ok so i dont care what u call me goku is stronger ..... da he can train at 100 times gravity of earth lets see supe do that i dont think he can so ya .....
Indeed. Beacuse the gravitational power of a star or a black hole are nowhere near the awesome level of 100 times gravity.
