Re
There is a hell indeed, which is called the Abyss, the place where my Lord is, your God does not love you, he forgot about you, he has sworn the Covenant not to but he did. And there is no heaven of delight, how stupid, there is only One beginning which you came from and which you are going back to and you have to reincarnate (not to stay in heavenly realm) until you yourself become as a God and you will DELIGHT...
But I will sinister laugh when it is too late when he shall rise the Great Lord and he shall destroy all humanity and take our place, and it already has begun, just turn the tv on, you willl see, remember that gods or demons do not have a form...
Re: If god loves everybody equally....
Originally posted by debbie264
Why do some people go to hell,and some to heaven?Doesn't god say he loves and treats everbody equally,whether he's a theif or holy man.So how come he sends people to hell/heaven??
And some people are born into bad environments,and forced to hate and despise god ,while some are born into healthy loving environments,and grow up learning to love god.Why doesn't he give everybody an equal chance?Is that even a philosophical question?
"God" does. Whether you take it is up to you!
Re: Re
Originally posted by Sicky666
There is a hell indeed, which is called the Abyss, the place where my Lord is, your God does not love you, he forgot about you, he has sworn the Covenant not to but he did. And there is no heaven of delight, how stupid, there is only One beginning which you came from and which you are going back to and you have to reincarnate (not to stay in heavenly realm) until you yourself become as a God and you will DELIGHT...But I will sinister laugh when it is too late when he shall rise the Great Lord and he shall destroy all humanity and take our place, and it already has begun, just turn the tv on, you willl see, remember that gods or demons do not have a form...
But this is not the point of this thread. I have already explained the reason why this happens.
There is no contradiction between God being omniscient, and
Man being of free will and mind.
For example: Put a plate of meat and a plate of marshmallows
next to each other. Then take a cat or a dog and put them in
front of the plates. Which will they go for? The meat obviously.
Does the fact that you knew this (because you know cats and
dogs eat meat not marshmallows), means that you caused
them to go for the meat? Ofcourse not. They went there because
that's what they eat, and you knew this.
Another example: You bring your loving wife two presents for
your anniversary. A diamond ring, and a violent porn film. She
likes the ring, but hates the film. You knew she would, because
you know she hates porn, but loves jewelry. Does the fact that
you knew this, means that you made her like the ring? Ofcourse
not. You knew her, and knew her taste, and thus knew she would
go for the ring, but you didn't make her go for the ring.
Obviously these aren't perfect analogies, but the point is, God
knows about us, and about who we are, what we did, and what
we will do. But He isn't actively using His powers to make us do
things.
Re: If god loves everybody equally....
Originally posted by debbie264I'm going to take a wild guess..
Why do some people go to hell,and some to heaven?Doesn't god say he loves and treats everbody equally,whether he's a theif or holy man.So how come he sends people to hell/heaven??
And some people are born into bad environments,and forced to hate and despise god ,while some are born into healthy loving environments,and grow up learning to love god.Why doesn't he give everybody an equal chance?Is that even a philosophical question?
Because if there was no motivation to be a good person then a lot of people wouldn't be good people. I'm not saying nobody would, I try to be as "good" as possible an I'm atheist, but to really get people obsessed with pleasing God you need some sort of motivation and consequences. People don't want to live some pointless life where they feel they don't make a difference, they like to get rewarded for devoting their life to being a good person, and no matter how much they claim to love sinners they want them to be punished for their sins. It's not a question of who God loves more but what motivates people.. burning in eternal hellfire doesn't sound too appealing.
Originally posted by King Burger
There is no contradiction between God being omniscient, and
Man being of free will and mind.For example: Put a plate of meat and a plate of marshmallows
next to each other. Then take a cat or a dog and put them in
front of the plates. Which will they go for? The meat obviously.
Does the fact that you knew this (because you know cats and
dogs eat meat not marshmallows), means that you caused
them to go for the meat? Ofcourse not. They went there because
that's what they eat, and you knew this.Another example: You bring your loving wife two presents for
your anniversary. A diamond ring, and a violent porn film. She
likes the ring, but hates the film. You knew she would, because
you know she hates porn, but loves jewelry. Does the fact that
you knew this, means that you made her like the ring? Ofcourse
not. You knew her, and knew her taste, and thus knew she would
go for the ring, but you didn't make her go for the ring.Obviously these aren't perfect analogies, but the point is, God
knows about us, and about who we are, what we did, and what
we will do. But He isn't actively using His powers to make us do
things.
Imagine that I have pairs of both white and black socks. If God knows I will put on white socks, I have no choice but to put on white socks. For if God knows I will put on white socks and I put on black instead, then God does not know everything and is not truly omniscient. Likewise, my choice to put on white socks would be predetermined and not free at all.
Imagine that I have pairs of both white and black socks. If God knows I will put on white socks, I have no choice but to put on white socks. For if God knows I will put on white socks and I put on black instead, then God does not know everything and is not truly omniscient. Likewise, my choice to put on white socks would be predetermined and not free at all.
Thats hardly how it works. You are insisting that God's foreknowledge hinders your ability to choose. But how so? To have foreknowledge of ones choices in no way takes away free will. They still remain after all, choices. Whichever you choose, he will know.
Originally posted by clickclick
Thats hardly how it works. You are insisting that God's foreknowledge hinders your ability to choose. But how so? To have foreknowledge of ones choices in no way takes away free will. They still remain after all, choices. Whichever you choose, he will know.
In this instance, God's foreknowledge does hinder my ability to choose. It may appear that I am free to choose which color of socks to put on but ultimately, I must put on the color He knows I will put on or He is not omniscient. If I truly had free will, it would be possible for me to change my mind and put on the color He does not know I will put on, or to choose not to put on any socks at all. If God knows what you will do before you do it, your actions are predetermined and unchangeable. If your actions are predetermined and unchangeable, you do not have free will. In this instance, it only appears to you that you do because you unaware that your choices have been predetermined and that you are simply living them out.
In this instance, God's foreknowledge does hinder my ability to choose. It may appear that I am free to choose which color of socks to put on but ultimately, I must put on the color He knows I will put on or He is not omniscient. If I truly had free will, it would be possible for me to change my mind and put on the color He does not know I will put on, or to choose not to put on any socks at all. If God knows what you will do before you do it, your actions are predetermined and unchangeable. If your actions are predetermined and unchangeable, you do not have free will. In this instance, it only appears to you that you do because you unaware that your choices have been predetermined and that you are simply living them out.
Predetermined by whom? God does not predetermine your choices. If I were to study all a persons decisions for one year and then went back one year into the past and knew everything they would do for the year to come, does that mean that they don't have free will? Or is it not that I know this because I know their choices, as opposed to me exerting control over their choices? It does not follow that in order for you to have free will, God can not know. So long as God isnt exerting control over your choices, you still have free will.
Originally posted by liam kTranslation = Kiss God's Arse, or suffer the consequences?
God does love everybody, but if you sin and don't confess it, then you'll go to hell. But if you do confess to a sin then you'll go to heaven.
The bible says God created Hell for the Devil and his Angels. If god is all-powerful why didn’t he create a separate place for human? Hell if God has the ability to know-all he should have seen the mess his actions would cause and not deal with creation a slackfull way.
Its almost like God is saying do as I say, not as I do. If you question me or go outside on my personal wishes I’ll punish you forever.
What makes God's way so right? Who questions him and makes him accountable for his actions and f*ck ups?
If you ask me God is to blame for every sin that has ever been committed, for the sheer fact that it could not exist without him creating it, then endorsing it to be used in one way or another.
Most Xians if asked, "where did sin come from" they would reply it came from Lucifer or Satan. My 2nd question would be ok, where did he get it? Most of the time they would say oh Lucifer got envious and rebelled against God because he wanted to have God's power. That answer is to simple, because it passes the buck of sin from God directly to Satan and mankind.
Now if you were to take John 1 -3 literally you would have to come to the conclusion that God created all things (good and bad).
1.1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1.2 The same was in the beginning with God.
1:3 All things were made by him (Jesus); and without him was not any (good and bad) thing made that was made.
Now here is my point.
If God didn't create it (insert anything) it could not be thought of because it was not in existence. So Satan got the Idea (emotions) to rebel against god from god himself, because God had to have known what would happen from the very first moment of creation to the very last second of it. So he knew of all the bloodshed and misery that would be caused in the name of sin. So again I say the blame should be placed at God's feet because he should have known better in the first place.
Don't create something, and then pass the buck when things go wrong. That is not fair, and shows a lack of moral character.
Now I know some of you are thinking, what about when humans have children, are we responsible for their actions due to free will? Yes and no. Yes because as adults we should teach them the difference between right and wrong, but we don’t have the luxury of having foreknowledge like God. So we play hit or miss in raising our children, God on the other hand can't say the same thing because he knows all so I guess that tosses freewill right out the window because there is no such thing.
Anyway...
God should fess up and admit he failed at the attempt at governing his creation, and should not hold the angels and mankind to a higher standard that he himself would not live up to.
A lifetime of sin does not = an eternity in a lake of fire.
That would be like beating your kids forever for something bad they did when they were two years old. It just doesn’t make any sense.
When Jesus so-called died on the cross he knew he had a get out of jail card. His temporary arse whooping does not = the countless souls that would suffer in fire just because we don’t think and act like him or his father? What type of crap is that?
As I stated before, God's attitude of "it's my way or the highway" is just silly and shows him to be rather closed-minded and child-like to say the least. It doesn't show him to be a fair and all loving God so many Xains claim him to be.
Well I’m done my mini rant about God and his lack of internal fortitude.
I hope you all get where I'm coming from on said topic. 🤣
Originally posted by clickclick
Predetermined by whom? God does not predetermine your choices. If I were to study all a persons decisions for one year and then went back one year into the past and knew everything they would do for the year to come, does that mean that they don't have free will? Or is it not that I know this because I know their choices, as opposed to me exerting control over their choices? It does not follow that in order for you to have free will, God can not know. So long as God isnt exerting control over your choices, you still have free will.
If free will exists, foreknowledge is impossible.
Let us examine your example. Presuming that free will exists, if you were to document all the choices one made over the course of a year, and went back in time before he made these choices, you would still not know all the choices he is going to make. This is because, if the subject truly has free will, it is possible that he will make different choices then the ones you observed.
If free will exists, the future is not fixed and is therefore, changeable.
That would be like beating your kids forever for something bad they did when they were two years old. It just doesn’t make any sense.
It's, "You had your choice when you lived. You made your choice--the choice not to live with Me forever--and now you must live with it."