Storm vs. Dr. Doom

The fact that he didn't have his forcefield up in either scans one or two don't prove much either way, then. He's clearly suffering without it, and he's confronting MEPHISTO? For the soul of his MOTHER? Yeah, naturally he'd have it down when fighting MEPHISTO but he'd be sure to put it up when fighting STORM. lol I buy that!

Scan three was done during Unthinkable. Doom made a bargain with demons to grant him magical powers. He made that bargain to gain powers he didn't have, because he didn't have them. Only after gaining those powers was he able to cloak and get the jump on Strange. He couldn't have done it otherwise - so you can't use that as evidence of what he'd do against Storm, unless you're putting him inside of Valeria's skin suit for this fight (and we're not).

Zahit - don't you ever post anything other than "read a book"? I swear, every post you ever make is the same tired remark.

Originally posted by Nataku8188

Now, let's hear what Storm can do exactly to avoid an invisible, flying, gauntlet blaster wielding Doom, because the whole "Flys into cloud cover" is about as shifty a defense as Doom's forcefield

Notable difference: Doom's forcefield is an available asset, Storm's 'defence' is pure speculation as to whether she would even do it, let alone if it'd work.

It's no less speculation than Doon's forcefield. If Doom had it up nearly as often as you think he would, he wouldn't be getting burned by Johnny or smashed by Ben all the time, would he?

The whole battle is speculation on both our parts, naturally. Doom MAY have his forcefield up. Storm MAY rob him of air. Doom MAY fly after her. Storm MAY put up a cloud of cover and fog. Doom MAY not be bothered by that. Storm MAY overload his shields with lightning. So what?

So it's ok to just assume it's down? Doom has a forcefield. Storm's defence, as Vic pointed out, is pure speculation as to whether she would do it.

Storm MAY rob him of air? Why are you not grasping that she can't do it? Why are you raising things that simply won't happen? Fog won't bother him, not MAY. If it's a fight, he's not gonna stand there, so it's safe to assume he will fly after her. Extremely biased to say he wouldn't. Storm can't overload his shields, I find a hard time believing she'd succeed where Galactus failed.

-AC

It is less, because it's not necessarily available.

It's a strategy. Doom's is a defensive option literally available to him. Doom: 'forcefield on? Or off. Maybe halfway today.'

Storm doesn't have dust cloud cover as a specific default defensive option, it's merely a possible course of action.

Originally posted by demigawd
Zahit - don't you ever post anything other than "read a book"? I swear, every post you ever make is the same tired remark.

Perhaps if you actually read a book or at least were capable of
comprehending one then you wouldn't be here yammering about
how you think Storm can BEAT Dr. Doom.

Or perhaps if you read a book you could actually present some valid
arguments instead of making up nonsense and day-dreaming
ridiculous scenarios of Storm beating Doom with air.......
or was that dust.........or was that rain..........dust bunnies perhaps?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So it's ok to just assume it's down? Doom has a forcefield. Storm's defence, as Vic pointed out, is pure speculation as to whether she would do it.

Whether you assume it's done or not is irrelevant. I'm saying, if it's up, she's got options. if it's down, she's got options. If she's attacking, she's got options. If she's defending, she's got options. There's absolutely nothing MORE speculative that she'd defend the way we said compared to the way you said Doom would defend. She's defended that way before, and she will continue to defend that way in the future. That's FACT, whether you accept it or not.

Storm MAY rob him of air? Why are you not grasping that she can't do it? Why are you raising things that simply won't happen?

Because she can. Case closed. She can do it. I've given you every reason in the world that she can do it. If you don't accept it, then that's your problem. But she can do it.

Fog won't bother him, not MAY.

Because of that time Fogmaster shot a bunch of fog at him and Doom laughed it off by activating his fog lamps and saying, "Fog has no affect on DOOM!"? No? Then how can you be so sure it WON'T bother him? There's a scan right above you that showed how he could scarcely see.

If it's a fight, he's not gonna stand there, so it's safe to assume he will fly after her. Extremely biased to say he wouldn't. Storm can't overload his shields, I find a hard time believing she'd succeed where Galactus failed.

Because of that time Galactus shot millions of volts of electricity at Doom's shield and Doom replied, "Ha! Electricity has no effect on DOOM!"? No? Then what Galactus did with his energy is irrelevant.

It is less, because it's not necessarily available.

It's a strategy. Doom's is a defensive option literally available to him. Doom: 'forcefield on? Or off. Maybe halfway today.'

Storm doesn't have dust cloud cover as a specific default defensive option, it's merely a possible course of action.

So now the fact that Storm has more defensive options than Doom makes her a liability? The fact that she has options doesn't mean that it's unavailable. That means she may choose something else. How her versatility makes it a certainty that Doom would beat her escapes me utterly.

Zahit - as always, not worth a response.

Originally posted by demigawd

So now the fact that Storm has more defensive options than Doom makes her a liability? The fact that she has options doesn't mean that it's unavailable.

Zahit - as always, not worth a response.

No, the comparison is one of specifically and physically available defensive tool, versus speculative and potentially unavailable defence strategy.

This issue alone obviously won't decide the fight, which I didn't suggest.

What will decide the fight, is Doom's gauntlet blast to the head.

Originally posted by demigawd
Because she can. Case closed. She can do it. I've given you every reason in the world that she can do it. If you don't accept it, then that's your problem. But she can do it.

You've given me theoretical eventualities of a point you are clinging to. Nothing more. She can't create air vacuums and oxygen vortexs, stop being riduculous.

Originally posted by demigawd
Because of that time Fogmaster shot a bunch of fog at him and Doom laughed it off by activating his fog lamps and saying, "Fog has no affect on DOOM!"? No? Then how can you be so sure it WON'T bother him? There's a scan right above you that showed how he could scarcely see.

Once again your whole debate rests on your reliance that Doom's shield is down.

Originally posted by demigawd
Because of that time Galactus shot millions of volts of electricity at Doom's shield and Doom replied, "Ha! Electricity has no effect on DOOM!"? No? Then what Galactus did with his energy is irrelevant.

Considering he has more power, energy and will than Storm could ever dream a dream of having, and he still couldn't take Doom's shield down when he tried, makes me believe a 2nd in command X-Woman who controls the weather won't have much luck.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You've given me theoretical eventualities of a point you are clinging to. Nothing more. She can't create air vacuums and oxygen vortexs, stop being riduculous.

I haven't read up with X-Men as of late, so I cannot say how powerful she is now. But the air vacuum bit has been justified since at least Uncanny X-Men 150, when she created a tornado that created a vacuum which almost suffocated Magneto and surely would have killed him if he didn't fling Colossus at her.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
No, the comparison is one of specifically and physically available defensive tool, versus speculative and potentially unavailable defence strategy.

But under what circumstances would her defensive strategies not be available? Her ability and willingness to use her atmospheric control for defensive purposes is as much a given as Doom's ability and willingness to use his forcefield. No more so, no less so. The only thing open to speculation is what strategy specifically she'd employ. And the only reason why there's more discussion on that than there is on Doom's defensive strategy is because there are more options available to her.

You've given me theoretical eventualities of a point you are clinging to. Nothing more. She can't create air vacuums and oxygen vortexs, stop being riduculous

There's nothing theoretical about me specifically naming times in comics when she'd done that. I've done that, therefore she's done that, thereforce it's no longer theoretical. Because something is only theory if it's never been done. Storm creating air vacuums? Done. Storm creating vortexes? Done. Storm doing things through forcefields? Done. Storm breaking part of Doom's armor? Done. Storm overloading the shields of Doom's technology (even if it was a Doombot)? Done.

The "done" part denotes the fact that it's not theory, in case you were unclear on that.

Once again your whole debate rests on your reliance that Doom's shield is down.

I'm sorry, you must have missed the other 30 pages of the debate where I said what she'd do even if his shields were up. I can copy and paste it for you again, if you'd like. But something tells me you'd just ignore it again...

Considering he has more power, energy and will than Storm could ever dream a dream of having, and he still couldn't take Doom's shield down when he tried, makes me believe a 2nd in command X-Woman who controls the weather won't have much luck.

Doesn't matter. Wasn't an electricity attack. Electricity interacts with electronics differently than, say, the Power Cosmic. Probably because electronics are powered by...electricity?

Considering his suit has been shown to not be magnetic, electricity will have no effect, simply because shorts occur, as previously stated, when an electrical magnetic force is applied to interefere with the power flow.

Originally posted by demigawd
There's nothing theoretical about me specifically naming times in comics when she'd done that. I've done that, therefore she's done that, thereforce it's no longer theoretical. Because something is only theory if it's never been done. Storm creating air vacuums? Done. Storm creating vortexes? Done. Storm doing things through forcefields? Done. Storm breaking part of Doom's armor? Done. Storm overloading the shields of Doom's technology (even if it was a Doombot)? Done. The "done" part denotes the fact that it's not theory, in case you were unclear on that.

Am I the only one who understands the difference between claiming ability to create tornadoes and ability to suck oxygen from lungs? If you stick your head out of a car window when it's moving. Try to breath easy, try it. Won't work. Now imagine standing in a Tornado, a la Magneto. Would be even worse. Making it harder to breath by ricocheting your powers doesn't mean you're removing all available oxygen. Also, love the way you put (even if it was a Doombot). Doombot's aren't Doom. If you're as desperate as to assume that she could do it to the real thing coz she did it to a robot, well, hearty laughs are needed. You can list all the Storm feats you want, it does not change the fact that you are cliging to the hope she can manipulate inside Doom's shield, let alone suck the oxygen out of the mans lungs. This is all taking into account the fact that you're conveniently denying that Doom could hit her, as if it's some impossible feat. It's not. She creates fog, so? He can move. She creates dust, so? He can move. If someone throws a net over you, do you stand there saying "Well, ya got me. Damn"? No.

Originally posted by jaden101
I'm sorry, you must have missed the other 30 pages of the debate where I said what she'd do even if his shields were up. I can copy and paste it for you again, if you'd like. But something tells me you'd just ignore it again...

I saw where you said what you THINK she might do even if his shields are up. Which lest we forget, is all you CAN do.

Originally posted by jaden101
Doesn't matter. Wasn't an electricity attack. Electricity interacts with electronics differently than, say, the Power Cosmic. Probably because electronics are powered by...electricity?

The shield isn't electronics though, it's operated by. Those operators are beneath the shield. If she can't get to em, she can't overload em. Call me ker-ayzee, but I believe the power cosmic to be slightly more powerful than electricity.

-AC

First, let me just address this:

Originally posted by Nataku8188
I don't see you contributing at all. Go away until you do.

I'm not going to bother replying to all of these posts quote by quote. That would just take more time than I'm willing to spend on this right now.This thread is about what we think would happen if Storm and Doom met in a random encounter and began fighting. Those are the parameters any argument must be created in. There are no easy wins by just saying "aww she owes him a favor, she wouldn't kick his ass in!" . What she owes him is irrelevant to this thread.

I've been saying that she can draw the air from his lungs. Doing this would keep his brain from getting oxygen FROM said air. I did not mean she would suck just the oxygen out of him. All she has to do is draw all available air inside his body and forcefield out and keepit moving at sufficient speeds to keep him from inhaling.

Doom IS a bad guy. Is someone gong to debate me on that? I hope not. That being said, if he and Storm happen upon each other on neutral ground and Storm decides she wants to bring him down, but makes no threatening moves and actually flies out of sight, there's no reason to believe he would start taking shots at her without provocation. Flying to get some distance from an oponent isn't a retreat. A retreat is if she has no intention of fighting and never attacks him.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Dust settles on a TV, it doesn't settle on a shield. Let's be absolutely down to Earth. You're saying she's gonna stop him seeing by making his sheild dusty? It doesn't matter what she does with the sand or dust or vaseline, if he has his shield up, she can't hit him. Whether he can see her or not. Another one of your plotholes.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I was referring to your assumption that she's some vortex creating, lung sapping superpower.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The thing moves with him? Tornado's aren't intelligent. If you mean Storm is controlling it, SO WHAT? He's in his shield, the wind and "dust" cannot get past it. Doom could stand there for all he cares. Yes, your points are highly illogical. I completely understand what you are saying. You are clinging to the one point that she could use wind to disorientate him, which is preposterous considering it can't get to him.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Then don't step into the thread as if you're King Kong, whoop out all these posts, get hammered and then go off topic to save yourself. It's called being respectful.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
As for the dust storm around him, how exactly is that going to help her? He'll walk through it. If she's keeping it surronding him, then shes going to be concentrating on that, because, from all the comics I've seen, she's never really been too great at firing lightning bolts, creating torandos, and trying to suffocate someone all at once.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Now, let's hear what Storm can do exactly to avoid an invisible, flying, gauntlet blaster wielding Doom, because the whole "Flys into cloud cover" is about as shifty a defense as Doom's forcefield (Which would block the lightning attacks )

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Considering his suit has been shown to not be magnetic, electricity will have no effect, simply because shorts occur, as previously stated, when an electrical magnetic force is applied to interefere with the power flow.

k AC storm has done the air sucking vortex before with ease. One time i was reading a comic wher a few of the x-men were being controlled or something like that and storm fought against jean grey and storm won. she created a small tornado around her body in seconds, then jean couldn't breath. she was holding her nick and couldn't even use telepathy or telekinesis. and like someone stated above she did it to magneto, stop avioding this issue and face the facts that storm CAN do this.

would it work if Storm created a tornade that spins Doom like crzy for like 24 hours? He'll probably give up by then. He cant do anything while he's in the tornado.

idk he might be able to get out of it

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Am I the only one who understands the difference between claiming ability to create tornadoes and ability to suck oxygen from lungs? If you stick your head out of a car window when it's moving. Try to breath easy, try it. Won't work. Now imagine standing in a Tornado, a la Magneto. Would be even worse. Making it harder to breath by ricocheting your powers doesn't mean you're removing all available oxygen.

Actually, you're referring to two different things. Khell was saying that she could suck the air right out of his lungs. I agree with that. *I'm* saying she could also create a vortex around him or within his shield that would move the air elsewhere, changing the air pressure so dramatically that he can't breathe, or would pass out entirely from the sudden pressure change. Like what happens when an airplane suddenly loses its pressure.

Also, love the way you put (even if it was a Doombot). Doombot's aren't Doom. If you're as desperate as to assume that she could do it to the real thing coz she did it to a robot, well, hearty laughs are needed.

She defeated his technology - it proves she has the means of doing so. You can say that it doesn't mean anything because it's not the real Doom, but it shows that his tech isn't infallible or impervious to her power. Given that there's been no evidence to suggest that Doom's tech is vastly superior to the tech of Doombots, I have no reason to believe that she couldn't do it to Doom. Unless you have some evidence that Doom's tech is superior? If you don't, then you're just (to use your word) speculating.

You can list all the Storm feats you want, it does not change the fact that you are cliging to the hope she can manipulate inside Doom's shield, let alone suck the oxygen out of the mans lungs. This is all taking into account the fact that you're conveniently denying that Doom could hit her, as if it's some impossible feat. It's not. She creates fog, so? He can move. She creates dust, so? He can move. If someone throws a net over you, do you stand there saying "Well, ya got me. Damn"? No.

Sure, Doom could fire away if he wants. Might be able to hit her too. The difference is, she has lots of defensive options. Doom has his shield. If that fails, he's screwed. And I've named two ways in which she would make it fail. One is by overloading it. The other is by bypassing it. Storm has an entire defensive strategy using nature. Now, your job is to tell me times he's been blinded, in a sandstorm, in the midst of nature's fury, then activated his shield and they all went away and he could see just fine. That scan above sure didn't do it. If you can do that, then we're on even terms defensively. Otherwise, I've shown how Storm could defeat his shielding. How will Doom defeat all those winds and flying debris and fog and light shows to get to her?

I saw where you said what you THINK she might do even if his shields are up. Which lest we forget, is all you CAN do.

Which is no different than you or anyone else. We're all saying what we THINK. Even if you're so full of yourself you believe your opinions are fact, they're opinions. You THINK Doom would put up his shield. You THINK Doom would shoot at her with a gauntlet blast. Maybe he'll just run up and maul her. Maybe she'll duck out the way and trip him. Who knows? It's all what we THINK will happen. So get off the wordplay.

The shield isn't electronics though, it's operated by. Those operators are beneath the shield. If she can't get to em, she can't overload em. Call me ker-ayzee, but I believe the power cosmic to be slightly more powerful than electricity.

But the shields are generated by electronics - that means that they're providing constant energy to the shields. If you overload the shields with the very thing that fuels the electroncs, it will overload the electronics itself. It's not concussive force, like cosmic power is. It's complimentary force. Again, different concept.

Considering his suit has been shown to not be magnetic, electricity will have no effect, simply because shorts occur, as previously stated, when an electrical magnetic force is applied to interefere with the power flow.

I thought Khell answered this well, so I won't step on his toes. What I will say, however, is that Doom's suit IS magnetic. When he fought Magneto in their most recent encounter (like 10 years ago), Magneto knocked Doom back by his armor. Doom then had to explictly activate a device that created an anti-magnetic field to prevent Magneto from directly affecting his armor again. If his armor were not magnetic, he'd never need to do this.

Originally posted by Khellendros
I've been saying that she can draw the air from his lungs. Doing this would keep his brain from getting oxygen FROM said air. I did not mean she would suck just the oxygen out of him. All she has to do is draw all available air inside his body and forcefield out and keepit moving at sufficient speeds to keep him from inhaling.

I know what you've been saying and I know what it means. You are operating heavily under the assumption that she can work beyond his forcefield which is all she's hanging on by. Second of all, you're saying that she's gonna remove the air from him and move it around (more or less) so he can't breathe it in? How much more ridiculous ARE you going to get Khenny Rogers? We'll see.

Originally posted by Khellendros
Doom IS a bad guy. Is someone gong to debate me on that? I hope not. That being said, if he and Storm happen upon each other on neutral ground and Storm decides she wants to bring him down, but makes no threatening moves and actually flies out of sight, there's no reason to believe he would start taking shots at her without provocation. Flying to get some distance from an oponent isn't a retreat. A retreat is if she has no intention of fighting and never attacks him.

Hahahahahaha. "If they happen upon neutral ground and Storm decides she wants to bring him down...." let's look at this line. Seeing as we're talking about likely events, how likely is Storm gonna wanna randomly take out Dr. Doom? Talk about a contradiction. You are again assuming alot. The purpose of this battle is that they meet to fight, I took the liberty of asking Count Quan, and those were the stips he gave me. They meet to fight. So yes, he will be trying to kill her. Think before you act.

Originally posted by Khellendros
Are you really this dense, or are you just acting like it to get me to give up? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the latter. I NEVER SAID THE DUST WOULD SETTLE ON HIS SHIELD. I said it would surround it. As in, you know, continue spinning around it on currents of air? Are you grasping the concept yet??

I expected much more of you than to use the "Do you not understand?" technique. Hmm, very cliched. Ok so lets go with yours. She spins lots of dust around him....what then? I'm curious.

Originally posted by Khellendros
Sigh. You don't know what a vortex is, do you. A vortex is a mass of spinning air or water. Spinning air. Hmm. what does that sound like? A tornado, maybe? Just because she's working in a confined space doesn't mean she can't create spinning winds.

Telling me that I don't know what a vortex is doesn't mean it's true, just popping that one in there. Second, if you mean ANY level of "vortex" then yes of course she can create tornadoes, which are, by definition, vortexes. Can she create something that removes oxygen? No, she's not The Silver Surfer. She isn't that capable.

Originally posted by Khellendros
Tornados aren't intelligent, but they do move. And considering the one I'm talking about is being controlled by an intelligent being, the thing could move with him. My points aren't illogical, you are either not understanding them or pretending you don't to try and wear me down. The wind and dust doesn't have to disorient him, just keep him from seeing where Storm is headed.

Yes and if you read my post this is what I understood you to mean. So she blocks his vision with a tornado. Then what? It can't hit or affect him, not can she. He can still hit and affect her though, he has that option, she does not. Repeating stuff just because I countered it doesn't count either junior, you're new to this right?

Originally posted by Khellendros
😆 😆 😆
Ohhhhhhh man, I seriously just laughed out loud at that. YOU talking to someone else about being respectful. That was a good one.

Thanks brother, starting to like you already 🙂.

Originally posted by Khellendros
Actually, it doesn't have to be a tornado, just a minor dust devil. It doesn't have to be incredibly powerful to keep a lot of dust moving around Doom and keeping him from looking around, thus it wouldn't take much to keept it moving. Or, hell, she could just create a really thick fog and not have to worry about keeping it moving, since fog generally covers huge areas.

Dust devil? What the hell are you a comic debater or a household appliance salesman? Nothing minor is gonna affect Doom, let's clear that up. Let's bring up the question I asked a post ago and again two quotes up: So she stops him seeing, then what? What exactly are you trying to prove here?

Originally posted by Khellendros
Well, she can shift her vision so that she sees things in terms of energy instead of amtter, so being cloaked wouldn't do much. Him flying doesn'tmake much difference, because she can fly just as well if not better and dodge his gauntlet blasts until she loses him.

She sees weather patterns...that's why she is called Storm. "Dodge his gauntlet blasts until she loses him", what the hell? How is Storm able to dodge everything Doom throws at her yet to you, Doom cannot avoid dust? Rather silly....no I take that back. Extremely silly.

Originally posted by Khellendros
Not being effected by magnetic fields and not conducting electricity are two different things. He would have to change the metal into plastic or wood to keep it from not conducting electricity.

The man stands there overcharging his suit with many multiple thousands of volts. Come up with something else.

-AC

I dont think Storm can control the air in a person's lungs...she can control weather...not control air...there is a difference. secondly, concerning the vortex thing...i dont think this would work on Doom either...his suit is sealed.